Using the Nmtools package

Fightspit · Post #201by **Fightspit** » 02.05.2007, 15:15

t00fri wrote:-- my normalmap VT's don't have a problem with a thin dark line. It's most probably Fightspit's base texture...

This problem of "dark line" is already know for the specularmap with the base texture:

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=15
or
http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=30

danielj · Post #202by **danielj** » 02.05.2007, 23:22

I generate another normal map,but there is still some files of level 1,at least,with only 1 KB.It appears that the script needs BOTH nvdxt.exe and nconvert.exe.I don??t understand why since the files are generated in ppm format(and not png) and then is converted in dxt5.
But things gets worse...The 7600 GT can??t stand anymore, with the combination BMNG,BMNG_spec and Earth Normal(dxt5nm).Celestia nearly crashes every time I try to get closer to Earth.It gets blank for more than 1 minute and then crashes or lock up the computer.It appears to deal with this monster textures,you need more than 256 MB or 256 bit.Fridger don??t have a video card with more than 256 MB,but I think the fact that is 256 bit make the difference.If I remember well,Fridger have an 5900 Ultra.Although it is a relatively old video card,your transfer rate is bigger than my video card.I have only 22.4 GB/s and 128 bit.I can only play a bit with these textures,but can??t go anywhere.If it??s true,I will only have a 64k Normal Map around 2009,BECAUSE it??s IMPOSSIBLE to change my video card before that! :cry:

danielj · Post #203by **danielj** » 02.05.2007, 23:46

Sorry,only NOW I understand what Fridger mean to.
I had mixed PNG files with DXT5 files in the same normal map.This is the reason why Celestia crashes.But the core of what I say still remains.
With the AA and AF controled by software and image sttings in high perfomance and all other settings off,in only 800X600,I still get a major drop in frame rate from about 60 to 15 fps(slowdown) when I move the Earth with the mouse.And when I overshoot the right distance(between 200 and 2000 km) too many times,Celestia effectly crashes,showing that the 7600 GT is working near its limits.
Maybe some time with the CORRECT BMNG dxt5nm,things improve a bit,but not much so I think...

Don. Edwards · Post #204by **Don. Edwards** » 02.05.2007, 23:57

danielj,

Its not the video card as I have a 7600 GS+ and load it plenty and don't have the issues you are having. Although I had the exact same issues with Celestia on Vista and thats is why I went back to XP. You may have some damaged drivers.

If there is coruption of the drivers they will need to be removed from the system and totaly reinstalled. To do this thouroghly you will to download Driver Cleaner Professional. Its afree utility that totaly removes the drivers, then you can do a fresh install of them after arebbot of the system.

I found your specs, might I sugest you move up to the latest 100.xx class drivers from Nvidia for your video card.

Also check to make sure you have the latest Chipset drivers for your motherboard installed. Microsofts default drivers are never optimised and are designed for the most basic of compatibility to get the OS installed.

Also a gaunt into the bios might be needed. Make sure you have the shared video buffer set to double what your has if posible. Some bioses only go to 256mb, if thats the case use that setting.

Also make sure you aren't overclocking the system. If you are OC'ing the CPU or the video card set everything back to normal and see if this changes things. There are allot things that can be causing this problem. There may even be a slight incompatibility between your motherboard and your RAM, this is common issue with Nforce based motherboards and RAM, ASUS, although probably the best motherboard maker on the market has these issues all the time and a system bios flash is usualy required to fix it.
I am not saying you should jump the gun and flash your bios, but maybe you should check online to see if there are any issues with your motherboard and RAM and OpenGL games. Sometimes research is the best tool for diagnosing these issues.

Don. Edwards

danielj · Post #205by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 00:09

Corruption of my video card drivers?Could be,since actually the frame rate can drop to as low as 5 fps...
But finally I have some good thing to show:

http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... pngjh4.jpg

Don. Edwards wrote:danielj,

Its not the video card as I have a 7600 GS+ and load it plenty and don't have the issues you are having. Although I had the exact same issues with Celestia on Vista and thats is why I went back to XP. You may have some damaged drivers.

If there is coruption of the drivers they will need to be removed from the system and totaly reinstalled. To do this thouroghly you will to download Driver Cleaner Professional. Its afree utility that totaly removes the drivers, then you can do a fresh install of them after arebbot of the system.

Don. Edwards

Don. Edwards · Post #206by **Don. Edwards** » 03.05.2007, 00:17

danielj,

I added to the above post whle you were reading it, so take a look at it again for more info.

Don. Edwards

danielj · Post #207by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 00:22

I had checked it,but unfourtanetelly,the 100.XX driver is exclusive to Windows Vista or Geforce 8.The newest official driver is REALLY 93.71!
Nvidia is trying to force us to migrate either to Windows Vista or Geforce 8,since there is no new driver for my video card since November,2006.

Don. Edwards wrote:danielj,

I added to the above post whle you were reading it, so take a look at it again for more info.

Don. Edwards

Don. Edwards · Post #208by **Don. Edwards** » 03.05.2007, 00:40

danielj,

There is a 100.xx series driver that is for the 8xxx series card, but it also supports the 6xxx and 7xxx series as well. I was going install them, but I am running the Cuda libraries with the new NVDXT tools so that puts the upgrade on hold until they upgrade the libraries on there end.

There are new drivers that were released just today as a matter of fact. I just check the PDF from Nvidia's site and the drivers are fully compatible with our cards. If you go the Nvida site choose to download the drivers for the 8600 series card, the version is 158.22 and give then a try.
They are supposed to be optimiesed for better game play and better OpenGL 2.1 support.

So just because you see that the driver says its for the 8xxx series card doesn't mean it won't support the older cards, what you are seeing is the driver was updated to support those cards but not the backward compatibility of previous cards. Thats always been the halmark of the Forceware drivers. Nvidia really needs to make it a little more plain about the driver realeases. They are making many people think that support for the video card ended back at the 97.xx builds of the drivers and that simply aren't the facts.

I hope this helps and good luck.

Don. Edwards

Don. Edwards · Post #209by **Don. Edwards** » 03.05.2007, 11:03

I stand corected about those drivers, they in fact will not install with aanything other that a 8xxx series card. Nvidia had revoed all lower cards from the install .inf file. I may do a .inf file swap and test the drivers on another system to see if they will in fact work. Sorry about causing any confusion.

Don. Edwards

danielj · Post #210by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 12:04

Yes,I tried to install and said "No drivers compatible with your hardware was found".But I would like to know WHY Nvidia did this?I think that maybe in the future,Celestia could be more optimized to ATI video cards,because Nvdia is not doing a good work,assuming that everyone MUST have Vista,and not only this;no drivers improve video card perfomance,while almost all new ATI drivers do so...

Don. Edwards wrote:I stand corected about those drivers, they in fact will not install with aanything other that a 8xxx series card. Nvidia had revoed all lower cards from the install .inf file. I may do a .inf file swap and test the drivers on another system to see if they will in fact work. Sorry about causing any confusion.

Don. Edwards

danielj · Post #211by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 12:10

One more thing:
The specularity problem is EXCLUSIVE to the DXT5 Normal Map.Not such thing happens with the 64K Normal Map in PNG format.Look at this:

PNG format:

http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... pngmn6.jpg

DDS format:

http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image ... t5nhn7.jpg

Post #212by **t00fri** » 03.05.2007, 12:34

danielj wrote:Yes,I tried to install and said "No drivers compatible with your hardware was found".But I would like to know WHY Nvidia did this?I think that maybe in the future,Celestia could be more optimized to ATI video cards,because Nvdia is not doing a good work,assuming that everyone MUST have Vista,and not only this;no drivers improve video card perfomance,while almost all new ATI drivers do so...

Don. Edwards wrote:I stand corected about those drivers, they in fact will not install with aanything other that a 8xxx series card. Nvidia had revoed all lower cards from the install .inf file. I may do a .inf file swap and test the drivers on another system to see if they will in fact work. Sorry about causing any confusion.

Don. Edwards

Daniel,

I do NOT understand why you now want to install "bleeding edge" non-recommended drivers for your card. This just adds another factor of possible errors, with noone willing to help in case of problems!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The recommended drivers for your card are mature and work very well.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I use these also without the slightest problems and good performance. Despite my old FX5900Ultra card being far less powerful than yours, my performance with all the 64k texture VT's from my txtools is smooth and without any problems. The same holds for quite many other Celestians, meanwhile.

As I noted earlier already, you unfortunately seem to have a tendency for making wrong decisions, at least as concerns computer related matters...

Bye Fridger

danielj · Post #213by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 12:52

So,what you recommend me to do?
I CAN??T reformat the computer or do any other drastic modification.I will try to clean my video card driver and reinstall it.But even this is a bit dangerous,because the video card will be for a while,with no driver at all.
I am open to suggestions...

t00fri wrote:
danielj wrote:Yes,I tried to install and said "No drivers compatible with your hardware was found".But I would like to know WHY Nvidia did this?I think that maybe in the future,Celestia could be more optimized to ATI video cards,because Nvdia is not doing a good work,assuming that everyone MUST have Vista,and not only this;no drivers improve video card perfomance,while almost all new ATI drivers do so...

Don. Edwards wrote:I stand corected about those drivers, they in fact will not install with aanything other that a 8xxx series card. Nvidia had revoed all lower cards from the install .inf file. I may do a .inf file swap and test the drivers on another system to see if they will in fact work. Sorry about causing any confusion.

Don. Edwards

Daniel,

I do NOT understand why you now want to install "bleeding edge" non-recommended drivers for your card. This just adds another factor of possible errors, with noone willing to help in case of problems!!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The recommended drivers for your card are mature and work very well.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I use these also without the slightest problems and good performance. Despite my old FX5900Ultra card being far less powerful than yours, my performance with all the 64k texture VT's from my txtools is smooth and without any problems. The same holds for quite many other Celestians, meanwhile.

As I noted earlier already, you unfortunately seem to have a tendency for making wrong decisions, at least as concerns computer related matters...

Bye Fridger

danielj · Post #214by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 12:58

It??s hard to tell any difference.Can you see it?

PNG:

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... oraxl1.jpg

DXT5:

http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... orapn7.jpg

PNG:

http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... pngcx7.jpg

DXT5:

http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 5nmji0.jpg

Later I will post more pictures...

danielj · Post #215by **danielj** » 03.05.2007, 18:53

Post #216by **t00fri** » 03.05.2007, 19:11

Daniel,

I think that looks way more encouraging now. Just proceed, you will get better ;-)

Of course, DXT5nm is preferrable (if correctly done).

Here is a little exercise for you: have a look at the sizes of the VT's e.g. in level 5. You will see quite a number that is very small (just a few bytes). That's the result of optimization...

What you are lacking of course are my new base+spec combined tiles....

Bye Fridger

Johaen · Post #217by **Johaen** » 18.05.2007, 03:40

Just thought I'd post a couple more pictures of different places using nmtools. This time, I used the "gebco_bathy" link on the NASA Arctic server. And so I now have normal maps of the oceans. Fancy!

Over Alaska, looking at the Aleutian Islands:

Hawaii:

Mariana Trench:

P.S. Can't wait for the txtools Fridger :wink:

Post #218by **t00fri** » 18.05.2007, 09:46

I love seeing people's nmtools based success images!

I think this provides the best possible motivation for other people to dare to attempt doing their own monster normalmap tiles with my tools.

Your images are REALLY fancy. I also still discover amazing views of our planet.

Here is an update as to the current status of my forthcoming txtools.
===============================

While I made significant progess, the beta testing phase for the txtools was somewhat delayed for the following reasons:

Due to the rapid development progress of the new NVIDIA (squish-based) DXT compressor 'nvcompress', I realized that my DevIL-lib based code became superfluous, really, and had to be recoded for using nvcompress instead. I am in regular dialog with the nvcompress developer Ignacio Castano of NVIDIA.
See e.g. here:

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 6&start=15

We are also about to fix a definite final DXT5nm standard both for nvcompress and Celestia.

What I did already is to recode the output format of ALL VT tile tools to PNG. The previous PPM and PGM formats are not (yet) recognized by nvcompress. Also PNG ist the ideal (lossless) tile format for people desiring the highest possible quality of their tiles. This way the additional conversion step PPM,PGM => PNG is now gone.

What I have still to recode is the routine (so far based on DeVIL) that packs the base texture tiles (RGB) and the Spec tiles (->A) into RGBA tiles and outputs the result as RGBA PNG tiles. Moreover my nice automatic scripts for doing the 64 k VT job with one click have to be adapted.

If this is done, the tools can go to beta testing. Fortunately Dirkpitt has also shown up again, so I hope that he might provide again a MAC binary for the tools eventually.

Finally, I plan to pack ALL tools together with an adapted version of the OpenSource package of the new NVtools and the PNGlibs for all three OS into one UNIFIED distribution...This has plenty of advantages, but also costs some further work.

Bye Fridger

bh · Post #219by bh » 19.05.2007, 09:22

Awesome screens Johaen... looking forward to getting my head around using this for mac!

cartrite · Post #220by **cartrite** » 22.05.2007, 07:59

I haven't got a chance to use the nm tools yet because of storage issues but I just installed a 500 gb sata drive that so as soon as I find the time...

Anyhow my first try will be with the 84k by 43k file the tools were meant for but I also was thinking of using srtm-3 data (version 2) I downloaded last year. Will the tools be able to use this data? This data is in 1201x1201 files with 16 bit signed integers as the 84k file is but there are over 10,000 of them.
cartrite

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Using the Nmtools package

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