New Celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.2 Version for Download

[ElChristou]

Here a set of templates; the So is the Fridger's one, beware of using the Sc because from inside the MW it's really not good... so for now better use the precedent one.

In general they could be better but as we really need an improved tool for the creation of those templates and because we will have the possibility to customize the well known galaxies with proper templates, for now I will stop spending my time trying to do better... (it's a real pixel war with the actual bmp2pts).

download: templates

Bye.

[Wersadix]

ElChristou, excellent job with new templates! I hope it was not hard to do it.

[ElChristou]

ElChristou, excellent job with new templates! I hope it was not hard to do it.

Tx, and yes it wasn't simple... and yet they are far from being ideal, so for now I prefer waiting for a better tool...
BTW, those templates haven't been normalized...

[Paolo]

Hi All.

Many thanks to everyone that was involved for this great job.

I have played for a while with this new FT release and with the new galaxy templates.

I have some requests.

1) I would like that the view stars as scaled disks option effects the galaxies too without keeping the correct magnitude. The intergalactical space seems empty despite the hugeness of the catalogue. So I would like to see the distribution of the +10000 galaxies in the Fridger's catalogue. The filamentous structure of the universe and the aggregations of the galaxy ammasses: the Cosmological Celestia!

2) I would like to have a 3rd person mode view, so that the clipping is not performed against the distance from the observer but against the distance from the selected object. This would be very useful if coupled with reference grids in other occasions indeed, both in interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactical space.

3) I would like to have a regulation for the galaxy label clipping distance or at least a more far clipping distance.

4) The bmp2pts results are remarkable, but does anyone tested deeply the possibility of creating galaxy points programmatically using fractal algorithms or so?

Kind regards and thank you again for these great improvements.

[ElChristou]

... 4) The bmp2pts results are remarkable, but does anyone tested deeply the possibility of creating galaxy points programmatically using fractal algorithms or so?...

Hello Paolo, in fact I'm not the right person to respond to your question, but I think I can say that Toti's tool already use some kind of algorithms to distribute the points depending of the intensity/contrast of the imput (a grayscale document of 128x128 px). The "little" problem with this tool is that it is a bit chaotic, I mean it's very hard to control the result.

To get something a bit more detailled, I tought I could merge several pts files generated with the tool coming from differents imput files. The idea was to first work on the dark very diffused blobs (used to define the shape of the galaxy when you begin to see it) then by "layers" working until the brightest dots (which are supposed to give the final touch).

Unfortunatly with the state of the tool (and with my knowlegde in coding below the absolute zero) I'm unable to do that because when you merge 2 files, one loose it's brightness definition, so the result is file 1 (normal) + small dots of file 2 (almost no brightness).
This mean that you have to treat those dark diffused blobs AND those very brigth ones in the same imput file, which is very very hard due to a kind of "balance" in the repartition of the brightness when converting the file.

To conclude, from my point of view, I would prefer a tool giving you the maximum of control over the brigtness and randomness (I would like to add also the diffusion but if we say bright=concentrated, dark = diffused, then the brightness is enough to control this setting... even if sometime it would be cool to have bright AND diffused blobs specialy for the heart of the galaxies) and the control of minimum 4 layers to have the possibilty of controlling the whole process.
In this case, we only need a mathematic model for the height repartition (to give the galaxy shape) with if possible a special treatment for the very heart where we need a much bigger concentration of points (for now this is also a problem).

Ah, there is a last problem with automated tool; if we want some nice realistic templates, those tools will (generally) do them with a very hight number of points. On the contrary, if we have the control over the process, then we will be able to control also this important point by an "intelligent" optimization of the template...

(Now a good fractal based tool is also welcome of course )

[sch]

Sorry my very bad english.

I translate celestia-1.4.0-FT1.2 on my Linux
(Debian 3.0 with gtk updated to 2.0 and gettext updated to last version)

It's worked. But some problems:

1. In many files (asterism.cpp and many other) gcc Error " 'gettext' not defined".
I included "gettext.h" manually in all this files.

2. In file gtkmain.cpp "#include <libintl.h>" needed.

3. In VT texture maps Levels 11 and 12 not worked, but in 1.4.0pre6 (Windows)
worked. Why?

[Wersadix]

Hey Fridger, will you add in next version of Celestia FT other dwarf galaxies near the our Milky Way? Dwarfs like: Sagittarius Dwarf, Ursa Minor Dwarf, Draco Dwarf, Sextans Dwarf, Carina Dwarf, Aquarius Dwarf, Cetus Dwarf, Phoenix Dwarf, Tucana Dwarf and Leo II.

I hope it`s not too big request.

[t00fri]

Hey Fridger, will you add in next version of Celestia FT other dwarf galaxies near the our Milky Way? Dwarfs like: Sagittarius Dwarf, Ursa Minor Dwarf, Draco Dwarf, Sextans Dwarf, Carina Dwarf, Aquarius Dwarf, Cetus Dwarf, Phoenix Dwarf, Tucana Dwarf and Leo II.

I hope it`s not too big request.

There won't be any further FT versions since Celestia-FT1.2 has been integrated completely into the official Celestia CVS archive. Since Chris' reappearance "on stage", we are working hard to relase a new Celestia-1.4.0pre8 version ASAP, followed hopefully very soon by the final 1.4.0 release.

The forthcoming release will most probably not include any further DSO data beyond my deepsky.dsc file. On the other hand there is nothing speaking against inclusion of Dwarf galaxies, provided all info required for their proper rendering is contained in the available respective catalogs.

The more pressing tasks, however seem to be to include and render the rest of the revised NGC/IC catalog: ~ 10000 clusters and nebulae...This requires further templates etc...
(cf what I wrote above).

Bye Fridger

[t00fri]

Sorry my very bad english.

I translate celestia-1.4.0-FT1.2 on my Linux
(Debian 3.0 with gtk updated to 2.0 and gettext updated to last version)

It's worked. But some problems:

1. In many files (asterism.cpp and many other) gcc Error " 'gettext' not defined".
I included "gettext.h" manually in all this files.

2. In file gtkmain.cpp "#include <libintl.h>" needed.

3. In VT texture maps Levels 11 and 12 not worked, but in 1.4.0pre6 (Windows)
worked. Why?

I did not have the slightest problems compiling the FT1.2 Gnome|Gtk+ versions. However, your Gtk library is much older than what I used: gtk 2.6.8. You did not write the commandline you were using.

I take for example:

./configure --with-gtk --with-lua --disable-debug --with-included-gettext

The gnome|gtk port in the CVS is now completely rwritten since a few days. However you should definitely use a more recent gnome|gtk release.

I did not have a chance yet to look into the reported lack of level 11,12 VT display.

Bye Fridger

[PlutonianEmpire]

What are the current galaxy types available, and where can I find a chart or something showing those galaxy types?

[t00fri]

What are the current galaxy types available, and where can I find a chart or something showing those galaxy types?

There are several classification schemes in use. The original one by Hubble which is used also in FT1.2 comprises these types

http://www.celestiaproject.net/~t00fri/images/galaxies2.jpg

However, in the professional catalogs, there are usually several different, considerably extended schemes used.

If you want to know about these as well, I can point you to the reference.

Bye Fridger

[PlutonianEmpire]

Thanks.

anyhoo, I now face a problem with my fictional galaxy. I like to fly through it at times, but every now and then, it disappears entirely when I approach it at certain angles. If anyone wants to try to reproduce it on their system, here's the galaxy

Code: Select all

Galaxy "Pluto Galaxy"
{
        Type  "Sa"
        RA            1.000
        Dec           7.58333333333333333333333333333333
        Distance     350000
        Radius         5e+04
        AbsMag        -21.0
        Axis    [  0.500 0.750  0.500]
        Angle    53.0000
}

[t00fri]

Thanks.

anyhoo, I now face a problem with my fictional galaxy. I like to fly through it at times, but every now and then, it disappears entirely when I approach it at certain angles. If anyone wants to try to reproduce it on their system, here's the galaxy

Code: Select all

Galaxy "Pluto Galaxy"
{
        Type  "Sa"
        RA            1.000
        Dec           7.58333333333333333333333333333333
        Distance     350000
        Radius         5e+04
        AbsMag        -21.0
        Axis    [  0.500 0.750  0.500]
        Angle    53.0000
}

Does the galaxy still vanish is you place it 10x as far away?

Bye Fridger

[t00fri]

Hey Fridger, will you add in next version of Celestia FT other dwarf galaxies near the our Milky Way? Dwarfs like: Sagittarius Dwarf, Ursa Minor Dwarf, Draco Dwarf, Sextans Dwarf, Carina Dwarf, Aquarius Dwarf, Cetus Dwarf, Phoenix Dwarf, Tucana Dwarf and Leo II.

I hope it`s not too big request.

Actually quite a few Dwarf galaxies are already in my deepsky.dsc data base. What catalog do you recommend for the remaining ones? I need also distances, magnitudes, minor/major half axes, PA, hubble types. J2000 coordinates!

Bye Fridger

[PlutonianEmpire]

Yep, it still vanishes.

[ajtribick]

I recall reading that the length of the axis vector should be 1, that might be the issue.

[PlutonianEmpire]

I recall reading that the length of the axis vector should be 1, that might be the issue.

I have no idea what that means.

[ajtribick]

I recall reading that the length of the axis vector should be 1, that might be the issue.

I have no idea what that means.

What do you mean you have no idea what that means? You don't know what the axis vector is, you don't know what a vector is, or you don't know how to work out the length of the vector? And you are trying to create galaxy add-ons and such like? AAAAHHH!!!

In any case...

The axis vector for your galaxy is [ 0.500 0.750 0.500 ]

As far as I can tell, the length of this vector should be one.

You can work out the length of your vector by using Pythagoras's theorem:

Length = ???(x??+y??+z??) = ???(0.500??+0.750??+0.500??) = 1.03077641

So divide all the numbers in the axis vector by 1.03077641 and see what happens.

[PlutonianEmpire]

I recall reading that the length of the axis vector should be 1, that might be the issue.

I have no idea what that means.

What do you mean you have no idea what that means? You don't know what the axis vector is, you don't know what a vector is, or you don't know how to work out the length of the vector? And you are trying to create galaxy add-ons and such like? AAAAHHH!!!

In any case...

The axis vector for your galaxy is [ 0.500 0.750 0.500 ]

As far as I can tell, the length of this vector should be one.

What do you mean by that?

In any case, I used my computer's calculator to divide the numbers and adjusted the axis vector to [ 0.48507124838062601762490858711056 0.72760687257093902643736288066585 0.48507124838062601762490858711056 ]

....

Nope. still disappearing.

[Wersadix]

Hey Fridger, will you add in next version of Celestia FT other dwarf galaxies near the our Milky Way? Dwarfs like: Sagittarius Dwarf, Ursa Minor Dwarf, Draco Dwarf, Sextans Dwarf, Carina Dwarf, Aquarius Dwarf, Cetus Dwarf, Phoenix Dwarf, Tucana Dwarf and Leo II.

I hope it`s not too big request.

Actually quite a few Dwarf galaxies are already in my deepsky.dsc data base. What catalog do you recommend for the remaining ones? I need also distances, magnitudes, minor/major half axes, PA, hubble types. J2000 coordinates!

Bye Fridger

So, Fridger, you need help? Well then here`s some link`s I found lately:

First I found this page http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/galaxies.html which is ok, it have galactic coordinates, distances, hubble types and diameter.
On page http://www.seds.org/~spider/spider/LG/lg.html are some links that may be very useful, but coordinates are not too accurate, then I found following: http://www.astro.utu.fi/EGal/elg/ELGtable.html have very accurate
coordinates but i can`t find magnitudes, minor/major half axes and PA.
One thing i can`t comprehend is why is so hard to find these values?

And one more thing. How will you generate Axis line? I don`t see any way
to accomplish this reading the catalog! I`m confused, Fridger.