Cylindrical Projection Textures from "Space photographs

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Cylindrical Projection Textures from "Space photographs

Post #1by t00fri » 08.07.2004, 21:41

Hi all,

this is to let you know that things seem to get moving as to generating cylindrical projection textures from space photographs.

Some of you will remember that I contacted Matthew Arcus two weeks ago and suggested to extend his projection software to the inverse task.

At that time, he was starting a vacation trip for two weeks. Now he is back and --amazingly-- already has finshed the job!

Have a look yourself:

Matthew Arcus wrote:Had a look at the inverse mapping problem, which turned out to be reasonably straightforward. I've put a little webpage with the results of
my investigations at:

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/mmps/europa.html

There's also a new version of the code for download at (as before):

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/mmps/mmps.tgz

The key addition is the -i flag, which tells "project" to generate the inverse mapping, which can be used with either the "perspective" or "rectilinear" (effectively, a perspective projection from infinitely far away) to generate a lat-long map from an image. rectilinear is easier, though will introduce distortion if perspective effects are significant.

The position of the planet can be set with the -lat and -long parameters (for the central point in the image) and there are some other parameters that define the orientation (-tilt and -turn, though I can't remember what
they do offhand, -tilt sounds like it ought to do the right sort of thing).

If you have a set of images of something from different directions do let me know and I will have a play - I couldn't find anything very suitable myself, but perhaps you know more about what is out there.

It would be nice to be able to fiddle with these things interactively, perhaps that's something I should look at - might need to get myself a faster PC for that though - I developed this stuff on a 133 MHz laptop and
my current box is a 400 MHz PII, so there's plenty of room for improvement there.

Next step I guess is joining up maps from multiple image sources, not something I know too much about (though I did work on a system for doing
this some time ago).

Had a bit more of a play with Celestia (another reason for getting a faster PC). Looks wonderful. How about deep sky objects - wouldn't it be fun to
fly through the Great Wall (or whatever it's called these days)?

Do let me know if this looks useful (or, of course, if anything is unclear or, god forbid, broken).

All the best,

Matthew.


The examples he discussed in the special WEB page he put up for that task are very interesting.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/mmps/europa.html

On the weekend, I hope to look into that issue in detail!

This code could be very handy to patch new photographic information e.g. about Titan into my "base texture" as the information flow keeps coming in!

Bye Fridger

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Post #2by John Van Vliet » 09.07.2004, 08:04

hi havent untar'd it yet but seeing as it it 3:40am and i have no plans for tomarrow . I think i will have some fun -tomarrow
this beats testing php5 rc3

Matthew Arcus

Re: Cylindrical Projection Textures from "Space photogr

Post #3by Matthew Arcus » 09.07.2004, 10:36

t00fri wrote:Hi all,

this is to let you know that things seem to get moving as to generating cylindrical projection textures from space photographs.

Some of you will remember that I contacted Matthew Arcus two weeks ago and suggested to extend his projection software to the inverse task.

At that time, he was starting a vacation trip for two weeks. Now he is back and --amazingly-- already has finshed the job!



Glad to be of service. (It did only involve writing a small amount of new code though).

Matthew.

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Re: Cylindrical Projection Textures from "Space photogr

Post #4by t00fri » 09.07.2004, 20:06

Matthew Arcus wrote:
t00fri wrote:Hi all,

this is to let you know that things seem to get moving as to generating cylindrical projection textures from space photographs.

Some of you will remember that I contacted Matthew Arcus two weeks ago and suggested to extend his projection software to the inverse task.

At that time, he was starting a vacation trip for two weeks. Now he is back and --amazingly-- already has finshed the job!


Glad to be of service. (It did only involve writing a small amount of new code though).

Matthew.


Welcome, Matthew in the Celestia community!

The first exercise I am going to do with your new projection code will be to generate a cylindrical map of the animated GIF images from the SOHO sun.
Image Image

This is only 1/4 of the resolution that is available.

Bye Fridger

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Post #5by John Van Vliet » 10.07.2004, 08:39

well i spent the day playing with the new code
those gifs are probibly best suted for the code
i was having fun with some cassini pics , i deleated it all
But if anyone is interestd i have posted a cygwin ,g++ biuld
(windows's exe ) called mmps.zip
at
http://johnscelestiapage.no-ip.com/filemgmt/visit.php?lid=63

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Post #6by t00fri » 11.07.2004, 00:12

Hi all,

just to provide a flavor that my recent idea of converting brand new Cassini photos into Celestia textures via Matthews rectilinear projection code indeed works:

Below, you see how Phoebe looks meanwhile in my Celestia installation. I have used

-- Jens' color texture from the recent hires Cassini (RGB) photos of Phoebe
-- converted with Matthews projection software into a (partial) cylindrical texture that can be displayed in Celestia!

The result looks like this:

Image

Of course, one has to still work a bit before this is finalized: latitude adjustments and a LOK mask...

Bye Fridger

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Post #7by jim » 12.07.2004, 20:52

t00fri wrote:just to provide a flavor that my recent idea of converting brand new Cassini photos into Celestia textures via Matthews rectilinear projection code indeed works:

Below, you see how Phoebe looks meanwhile in my Celestia installation. I have used

-- Jens' color texture from the recent hires Cassini (RGB) photos of Phoebe
-- converted with Matthews projection software into a (partial) cylindrical texture that can be displayed in Celestia!


Nice work with my ugly picture. :-)
But I guess to build a more complete map of Phoebe is a bit to complex. ;-)
Now I hope NASA or ESA will release a Phoebe map once with a good 3D mesh.

Jens

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Post #8by t00fri » 12.07.2004, 21:42

jim wrote:
t00fri wrote:just to provide a flavor that my recent idea of converting brand new Cassini photos into Celestia textures via Matthews rectilinear projection code indeed works:

Below, you see how Phoebe looks meanwhile in my Celestia installation. I have used

-- Jens' color texture from the recent hires Cassini (RGB) photos of Phoebe
-- converted with Matthews projection software into a (partial) cylindrical texture that can be displayed in Celestia!

Nice work with my ugly picture. :-)
But I guess to build a more complete map of Phoebe is a bit to complex. ;-)
Now I hope NASA or ESA will release a Phoebe map once with a good 3D mesh.

Jens


Oh yes, I forgot to mention that. The mesh needs to be reworked and I have no idea how to do this. No expertise available here;-)

Yet the texture part works really easy and not so badly I think...

Bye Fridger

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Post #9by Toti » 12.07.2004, 22:18

Fridger:

Perhaps you can try this idea:
You can build a cylindrical map with mmps and this image that Chris posted a few days ago:
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA06070.jpg
(Some Gimp/Photoshop work might be needed)
Then you can create a displacement map by resampling the altitude ramp to a grayscale one. (The freeware Wilbur can do it)
This map can be easily applied to an sphere mesh in order to obtain an acceptable 3D model of the satellite, with almost no "creative" licenses.

I would do it myself, but for some reason, after a clean compile under Cygwin, mmps is doing curious things to the textures.

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Post #10by Redfish » 12.07.2004, 22:41

I Think I should use this to make the tiles of VT earth fit with textures. I'll get into it, hopefully it'll pay of.

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Post #11by t00fri » 12.07.2004, 23:02

Toti wrote:Fridger:

Perhaps you can try this idea:
You can build a cylindrical map with mmps and this image that Chris posted a few days ago:
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA06070.jpg
(Some Gimp/Photoshop work might be needed)

OK that part is easy, I can do it with several German beers loaded;-)
Toti wrote:Then you can create a displacement map by resampling the altitude ramp to a grayscale one. (The freeware Wilbur can do it)

That I am not sure whether I understood. Aren't you simply saying that you want to convert the artificial color map into a level gray map? That again would be easy and I can do it with Gimp.

Toti wrote:This map can be easily applied to an sphere mesh in order to obtain an acceptable 3D model of the satellite, with almost no "creative" licenses.

Here I am lost since I have no idea about mesh manipulations at all. I also have no respective software. The main reason being that I am not a great fan of getting involved with satellite models and the like. The ones I need, I usually get from Jack's site;-)

Toti wrote:I would do it myself, but for some reason, after a clean compile under Cygwin, mmps is doing curious things to the textures.


Let me compile mmps with Cygwin. It's hard for me to imagine that this is not a trivial task...I get back to you soon.

Bye Fridger

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Post #12by selden » 12.07.2004, 23:54

Toti,

What 3D design package are you using? Blender?
What function in it will apply a displacement map to the surface of a sphere?

Is the 3DS import/export library available for Blender again? The last time I tried to find it, the site where it was supposed to be had gone offline permanently, so I gave up.
Selden

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Post #13by t00fri » 13.07.2004, 00:02

selden wrote:Toti,

What 3D design package are you using? Blender?
What function in it will apply a displacement map to the surface of a sphere?

Is the 3DS import/export library available for Blender again? The last time I tried to find it, the site where it was supposed to be had gone offline permanently, so I gave up.


The current Blender RPM is always found in SuSE. Their homepage is at:
http://www.blender.org

I find their GUI confusing, but that's clearly my fault not theirs :roll:

Bye Fridger

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Post #14by selden » 13.07.2004, 00:16

Fridger,

Unfortunately, I don't know how to get RPMs to work under Windows, even when using Cygwin.

Added slightly later: the 3DS import/export library was a separate user-supplied addon the last time I checked. It wasn't part of the Blender distribution for Windows.
Selden

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Post #15by t00fri » 13.07.2004, 00:40

selden wrote:Toti,

What 3D design package are you using? Blender?
What function in it will apply a displacement map to the surface of a sphere?

Is the 3DS import/export library available for Blender again? The last time I tried to find it, the site where it was supposed to be had gone offline permanently, so I gave up.


Selden,

there is a unified (download) site for all OS's

http://www.blender3d.org

Note the '3d' in that URL!

Look under Features and then Import/Export via Python scripts. Lots of 3D formats, including Studio Max.

Bye Fridger

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Post #16by t00fri » 13.07.2004, 00:45

t00fri wrote:
selden wrote:Toti,

What 3D design package are you using? Blender?
What function in it will apply a displacement map to the surface of a sphere?

Is the 3DS import/export library available for Blender again? The last time I tried to find it, the site where it was supposed to be had gone offline permanently, so I gave up.

Selden,

there is a unified (download) site for all OS's

http://www.blender3d.org

Note the '3d' in that URL!

Look under Features and then Import/Export via Python scripts. Lots of 3D formats, including Studio Max.

Although you should clearly use the native Blender for Windows, rpm's under Cygwin are used like anywhere:

rpm -pql <name>.rpm

lists the content

rpm -pqi <name>.rpm
lists the 'boilerplate'

rpm -ihv <name>.rpm
installs
rpm -Uhv <name>.rpm
updates
rpm -e <name>
deletes an installed rpm
rpm -qi <name>
lists the boilerplate of an /installed/ rpm

etc.

Bye Fridger

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Post #17by selden » 13.07.2004, 00:51

Fridger,

Thanks for the links and the rpm suggestions.
Selden

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Post #18by jestr » 13.07.2004, 01:52

If anyone can make a decent cylindrical map from this image
http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA06070.jpg
let me know I think I can then make an OK model (only by hand though),it wont be very scientific but it will be better than what we have -until the proper shape model is available,Jestr

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Post #19by Toti » 13.07.2004, 03:56

Fridger wrote:That I am not sure whether I understood. Aren't you simply saying that you want to convert the artificial color map into a level gray map? That again would be easy and I can do it with Gimp.
It's very simple, but (as I am sure you know) it's not mode->grayscale. You need to do a (linear) ramp conversion so Blue->Black=Lowest elevation and Red->White=Highest elevation.

Fridger wrote:Let me compile mmps with Cygwin. It's hard for me to imagine that this is not a trivial task...I get back to you soon.
It was absolutely trivial to compile:
after downloading and extracting,
cd mmps
make

I have precisely followed the instructions described by Mr. Arcus in http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/mmps/europa.html
The output images are crossed by multicoloured stripes, and severely distorted.

Fridger wrote:I find their GUI confusing, but that's clearly my fault not theirs
You are not the only one ;). The GUI and the input commands are designed for speed and performance, with the result of a very steep learning curve.

Selden wrote:What 3D design package are you using? Blender?
What function in it will apply a displacement map to the surface of a sphere?

Is the 3DS import/export library available for Blender again? The last time I tried to find it, the site where it was supposed to be had gone offline permanently, so I gave up.


Yes, I use Blender. It's a little more complicated than pushing a button: Blender has two mechanisms for displacing meshes:
    *) one displaces them at render time, ie. the mesh is not deformed when you work on it, but only when the final animation is done (this saves a lot of realtime resources. but it's not useful for our intent)
    *) the other displaces a plane along universal z vector. Then you need to run a script that folds it into a sphere. I have done this several times in the past: it works :)
    I will write detailed, step by step instructions.

The 3D exporter shipped with Blender is a little faulty, but since the model will be converted to CMOD format, this shoudn't do any trouble.

By the way, we need to know the radius of the minimum sphere that can "encircle" Phoebe.

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Post #20by Redfish » 13.07.2004, 09:26

Fridger wrote:Let me compile mmps with Cygwin. It's hard for me to imagine that this is not a trivial task...I get back to you soon.
It was absolutely trivial to compile:
after downloading and extracting,
cd mmps
make


Well for me it wasn't trivial to compile. could you send them to me? I've installed cygwin, but when i start it i do'nt even know in what directory I am.

I find it really frustrating that I have to take 20 steps before I can accomplish something. For a typical windows user, this isn't very obvious, and is very tedious. So if compiling is so easy, why not just put up the windows version somewhere, that will save the windows users messing with the exotic archive formats, messing with cygwin etc etc.

Oh yes, finally I have it, but I doubt it anyone without linux experience would never have guessed that they first have to put the mmps dir in the cygwin directory, then type cd /
cd mmps
make

And considering i get X server errors when testing, it was compiled succesfully i guess.


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