High Quality Texture Pack

[Guest]

Very funny indeed, but some of them do treat newbies in a rude way. I'll write nothing more on this subject, as it is off topic.

[Buzz]

Very funny indeed, but some of them do treat newbies in a rude way. I'll write nothing more on this subject, as it is off topic.

I was not logged in, but this was me.

Buzz

[t00fri]

Very funny indeed, but some of them do treat newbies in a rude way. I'll write nothing more on this subject, as it is off topic.

I was not logged in, but this was me.

Buzz

Why don't you help out a little with your time then some of us can relax a little...


Bye Fridger

[Axel]

Hi Rodriguez,

Is exclusivity is the goal? We should all simply have created our own Celestia rather than look for someone who already had if we were to follow that reasoning to it's conclusion. Then we each could have our truly exclusive (1 per creator) program that we could cherish forever.

Now I couldn't possibly have put this better I just feel ashamed if I now even let your statements do my job

One addition, though: If we argue about the complete high-rez texture set of which everyone knows we'll all be using it at one point in time, why haven't we argued about the standard one?
Because Chris just threw it in. He didn't asked if anyone would want it. He started with the OpenUniverse texture set (thanks to JHastings...) and improved it massively.

This little soapbox has been brought to you by someone who lives in a house he didn't build, eats food he didn't grow (although I do harvest and butcher the occasional game animal) and tells time with an analog watch he didn't smelt, smith, temper, polish or assemble.

LOL. I'm sure Fridger uses a cpu, a memory and a hd he didn't made. Even if there's a lot to be learned for him along the way about semi-conductor dotation, quant-effects in advanced micro designs and magneto-resistive effects. Not to talk about polarisation foils, power supply efficiency grades and heat dissolution.

So I imagine for a second beeing his hardware sales person. What would I tell him?

#1 Hi. You shoudn't occupy valuable store room here. I could have served a dozen people meantime who solder their own compouter as we ought and all used to do a mere 15 years ago. If you don't provide your own tool, I can't help you. And it's ignorant of you to ask since all the signs say it.

#2 Hi, how can I help you? I might not have it, but I can take a look.

Take care, Axel

[Rassilon]

Well this is a far cry from a Hardware Store...probably as far as the Antaries Galaxy is from Cygnus - A...In fact on the edge of the known universe

[Axel]

Hi Rassilion

I think my statement was ment for those who want to make these textures but gripe that GIMP doesnt work and complain that they cant do anything...or refuse to open thier fricken eyes and look at how easy it is to try...trial and error is the key to creating the best graphics in the world...

We had discussed that, I guess. And if I look back you're the one having posted the majority of the ficticous planetary textures, right? 'Nuff said.
Your quest for the improvement of grfx knowledge is also good. Just be prepared not necessarily everyone loves to tinker with it as much as you do.

Its easy to see and experience all of this...much harder to make the effort [to those who want to make the effort]...

That's always the case. But look at it from a diff. point of view for a sec: You use Celestia's model's (Hi Shrox!), but you haven't contributed. Right? I'm also relatively sure that you needed your time to come from pure consum to creation.
So why don't grant these two things to any fresh newbie by default?

In my eyes everyone should contribute. That's something easy to agree on. But if someone isn't ready yet or not ready by someone else's standards we shouldn't be exclusive to him/her. Copying in the digital age means you can give away the cake and still have it, maybe get even more.

Sometimes I'm a little bit annoyed by a newbie who comes into the forum and requests a thousand changes he found in a so-so screensaver. But then I remember me writing a mail every day to Raul (OU) and Chris for a while. Features you think of as essential came in that way.

What frankly pisses me most is having contributed by myself (in my way) and be treated like a bugger by just a very few. I have done textures before, I'm using The GIMP, I have written tools (not for Celestia yet, but for OU), I have suggested improvements and even written OU's manual (Hi Chris, any progress on yours?), organized the surface data for non-spherical planetoids for Raul and Chris, came on with the idea to use prehistoric paleontic maps, tested/suggested features for Chris and did a logo concept (he probably dislikes LOL).

If then someone starts telling me about consuming, I get pretty angry. Not so much for beeing mistaken, I haven't posted here for about a year, but for ignorance and 'I'm better than you'.

Rassilion,
please let me repeat. You're not meant and I like your work. I have done my first ficticious solar system some 4 years ago. I'm just for free exchange FOR EVERYONE as you always did with your tiny modem.

Thanks,
Axel

[Rassilon]

Well since you dont like tinkering with graphics...you make up for it posting complaints that Fridger is not clear and Im a day dreamer...Oh well I enjoy what I do that all that matters...bye

[t00fri]

Is exclusivity is the goal? We should all simply have created our own Celestia rather than look for someone who already had if we were to follow that reasoning to it's conclusion. Then we each could have our truly exclusive (1 per creator) program that we could cherish forever.

Now I couldn't possibly have put this better 8O I just feel ashamed if I now even let your statements do my job :lol:

LOL. I'm sure Fridger uses a cpu, a memory and a hd he didn't made.

So I imagine for a second beeing his hardware sales person. What would I tell him?

Take care, Axel 8)

All this stuff above is besides the point and I am really getting tired
reading it.

There a lots of things in life you simply acquire by
/paying money/ for what you get. This includes my CPU, memory and
hd. After paying, there are no further questions asked. It should be
obvious that Axel's example is totally unrelated to what we are really
talking about here.

Fact is that it is /my/ time that I spend for /you/ when
coding and testing new features in Celestia, when going
through endless log files with people, often several per day, or
giving people advice in image manipulation, etc. Unlike Axel's dealer who
/sells/ me my CPU, memory and hd, I am /not/ paid for what I consider
my /share/ in the OpenSource Idea, with which I really grew
up. Remember, I am a Linux person and have virtually never bought|used
commercial software in my life! Of course, the issue is
/not/ at all to account who is contributing how much or what. This depends
on many different circumstances. But, "at the end of the day", one
simply knows there are two kinds of people: those who always buy the
coffee and those who never do;-). Fact is also that the loudest voices
about "sharing" with others usually are those who are willing to offer
very little themselves...

This slogan about "exclusivity" that I keep reading is entirely
without basis as concerns myself. At worst, I have previously voted
against mass-advertisement of Celestia at this early stage, when there
is simply not enough manpower available, to handle all these /very
time consuming/ newbie questions adequately. My statement may have
even had an element of "self-protection", which I hope you understand
latest after a quick look into my activities in the "Bug department"
of this forum... The entirely technical reason, why my hires textures
could not be offered for general download, should have been made amply
clear by now.

Bye Fridger

[Rassilon]

[A General Statement]

The whole problem is there are too many assumptions and not enough understanding...we are all guilty of that from time to time...just remember when you fire a missile at someone...be ready to get hit back

Remember, I am a Linux person and have virtually never bought|used
commercial software in my life!

Never?...Never used commodore products atleast?...now thats hardcore

[Thilo]

There a lots of things in life you simply acquire by
/paying money/ for what you get. This includes my CPU, memory and
hd. After paying, there are no further questions asked. It should be
obvious that Axel's example is totally unrelated to what we are really
talking about here.

True.

Fact is that it is /my/ time that I spend for /you/ when
coding and testing new features in Celestia, when going
through endless log files with people, often several per day, or
giving people advice in image manipulation, etc. Unlike Axel's dealer who
/sells/ me my CPU, memory and hd, I am /not/ paid for what I consider
my /share/ in the OpenSource Idea, with which I really grew
up. Remember, I am a Linux person and have virtually never bought|used
commercial software in my life! Of course, the issue is
/not/ at all to account who is contributing how much or what. This depends
on many different circumstances. But, "at the end of the day", one
simply knows there are two kinds of people: those who always buy the
coffee and those who never do;-). Fact is also that the loudest voices
about "sharing" with others usually are those who are willing to offer
very little themselves...

Aha .. I for example am developing other things like IRC Services and simply dont have the time to make these .dds images, I have school as well and many many other things to worry about, and you're telling me "learn howto do it yourself"?
That would be about the equivalent if I taught someone coding C and then tell him he cannae have my sourcecode, he shall code it himself ...
While if the reason is, that you simply don't have webspace and traffic to put it online I understand this fully, and in this case it is okay what you are saying, but these arguments dont count for me ... this makes it seem that you rather put these nice pictures on bruckner to proll round, and nothing else ;)

Another suggestion: maybe you can do a small script that does the conversion automatically? GIMP is scriptable (though i dont know wether you can do this at all .. like i said: i really have no time to do anything in that direction)

To the point with "people who cry for open source have nothing in return": Wasn't Axel beside Raul one of the lead workers for OpenUniverse? If so i think he did really much and OpenUniverse gave you the base of Celestias textures ..

[Axel]

Hi Rassilion,

Well since you dont like tinkering with graphics...

No: "I have done textures before (for OU), I'm using The GIMP. ... I have sent Chris a concept for a new logo." I'm PAINTING in the real world.

you make up for it posting complaints that Fridger is not clear

No. Fridger is perfectly clear in his way. I just don't take his position to judge on users whatever standards they have not fullfilled and by tendency to be rough with newbies. But it's true: I tend to repeat myself to be tolerant with John Doe.

and Im a day dreamer...Oh well I enjoy what I do that all that matters...bye

No. I said the absolute opposite: "And if I look back you're the one having posted the majority of the ficticous planetary textures, right? 'Nuff said. Your quest for the improvement of grfx knowledge is also good."

I tried to mention: Be happy about your progress, try to spead it. But don't be an angry missionary.


I hope I could clearify the situation a bit,

Axel

[Rassilon]

Hi Rassilion,

Well since you dont like tinkering with graphics...

No: "I have done textures before (for OU), I'm using The GIMP. ... I have sent Chris a concept for a new logo." I'm PAINTING in the real world.

you make up for it posting complaints that Fridger is not clear

No. Fridger is perfectly clear in his way. I just don't take his position to judge on users whatever standards they have not fullfilled and by tendency to be rough with newbies. But it's true: I tend to repeat myself to be tolerant with John Doe.

and Im a day dreamer...Oh well I enjoy what I do that all that matters...bye

No. I said the absolute opposite: "And if I look back you're the one having posted the majority of the ficticous planetary textures, right? 'Nuff said. Your quest for the improvement of grfx knowledge is also good."

I tried to mention: Be happy about your progress, try to spead it. But don't be an angry missionary.


I hope I could clearify the situation a bit,

Axel

You know what Axel...you seem like you have the potential of being wise and all-knowing so I will grant you one thing...the meaning of life...

42

[t00fri]

Aha .. I for example am developing other things like IRC Services and simply dont have the time to make these .dds images, I have school as well and many many other things to worry about, and you're telling me "learn howto do it yourself"?
That would be about the equivalent if I taught someone coding C and then tell him he cannae have my sourcecode, he shall code it himself ...
While if the reason is, that you simply don't have webspace and traffic to put it online I understand this fully, and in this case it is okay what you are saying, but these arguments dont count for me ... this makes it seem that you rather put these nice pictures on bruckner to proll round, and nothing else ;)

Another suggestion: maybe you can do a small script that does the conversion automatically? GIMP is scriptable (though i dont know wether you can do this at all .. like i said: i really have no time to do anything in that direction)

Please, not again this texture issue!

It has been said /many/ times in public and even more privately that I am unable for technical reasons to get those long files out of my computer!

So I usually offered people my help instead and encouraged everyone to try themselves with the long raw files that everyone may download.

Last repetition: my internet-access goes through my lab and not via a commercial provider. Since we even had ssh hacked and our scientific data are very valuable, our security department has cosed up any access from outside our domain, by ftp, telnet and even ssh! My private WEB servers are not allowed to be made visible beyond our domain either. My bandwidth from the computer at home where I developed the hirez textures is 33KB/sec (!!!) with an analog modem....

Bye Fridger

[Thilo]

Errm .. actually i said it's okay if you cant put it online by technical means

I rather complained about your arguments....

[t00fri]

No. Fridger is perfectly clear in his way.

Thanks for the compliments;-)

I just don't take his position ...

and by tendency to be rough with newbies.

Axel

Even if I may get a little impatient at times, it is /me/ not /you/ spending hours helping and looking for bugs or malfunctioning installations...

/You/ merely criticize. A fast and efficient contribution;-).

I love it,

Fridger

[Axel]

Hi,

warm thanks, Thilo! I hope you had a lot of fun with OU. If you'd like to talk about it, my mail address is still there.

For the rest of the discussion:
We all have made out points very clear again. I just don't see any progress.


Thanks,
Axel


@Rassillion: I just hope it hasn't cost your race and Deep-Thought 40million years to find that out.

[Rassilon]

@Rassillion: I just hope it hasn't cost your race and Deep-Thought 40million years to find that out.

Well we did have 40 million years to get the meaning of time right...I always figured life is a simple even integer between the age of 30 and 50...

[t00fri]

Remember, I am a Linux person and have virtually never bought|used
commercial software in my life!

Never?...Never used commodore products atleast?...now thats hardcore ;)

Hey Ras, I almost overlooked this one over all this hassle;-)

The /only/ commercial software that I am using (every day since 14 years or so) is Maple, an algebaic math package that I need professionally. My lab has bought it and there is no real OpenSource alternative.

Now to Commodore. I just loved that little C64 machine, it is still in my cellar connected to a storage oszilloscope that I built many years ago. I developed all the necessary software in 6502 assembler code...Once I had learned assembler, the next project was to connect our new electronic typewriter to the C64;-), on which my wife then typed her thesis...

The C64 had this ingenious interface chip that simply provoked many people to connect it to whatever was around;-).

Honnestly, I cannot remember using, buying (or steeling) other commercial Commodore software. Certainly no games. Sorry;-)

Bye Fridger

[Random Chaos]

For textures of planets, this is the best site I know:
http://gw.marketingden.com/planets/sun.html

For textures of the earth:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/BlueMarble/

Unfortunately NASA took down their 43200x21600x24 sized satilite touched up photos of the Earth. You can still get them if you know someone with them. (I have them but there is NO WAY I can upload them on the 56k I'm on right now...they are over 1GB all combined after being compressed)

[Pixel]

they are still there - west and east hemispheres:

ftp://visibleearth.nasa.gov/pub/EARTHVIZ/