A picture of Apollo 11 on July 4, 1776

[daesotho]

O beautiful for spacious skies, for amber waves of grain
For purple-mountain magesties, above the fruited plain
America, America, God shed His grace on Thee
And crown Thy good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea.

Here's a picture, taken on July 4, 1776. As you all know, on that historic day, the Founding Fathers signed the Declaration of Independence and "brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal" (Abraham Lincoln). It is truly a beautiful sight, one well worth seeing after the carnage of September 11th caused by Muslims jealous of our freedom, and well worth remembering as we go to war to protect our freedom from the terrible weapons posessed by the Iraqi dictator.

America the Beautiful

[chris]

First, the image does not work.

Second, this forum is for discussing astronomy and space exploration as it relates to Celestia; it's not a platform for airing your political views and blustery patriotism, which, incidentally, the moderator finds somewhat offensive.

And third, I've up until this point refrained from editing or deleting anyone's posts, except in the case where there was unintentional duplication. I won't delete this thread either, if only to leave it as an example of the sort of content not to post in the Celestia forum.

--Chris

[daesotho]

First, the image does not work.

It works in all the browsers I've tested. Perhaps your browser doesn't have PNG image support? PNG has been a W3C standard for quite some time, I don't know of any modern browser which lacks it.

Second, this forum is for discussing astronomy and space exploration as it relates to Celestia...

And this is a picture of astronomy and space exploration as it relates to Celestia.

...[ I]t's not a platform for airing your political views and blustery patriotism, which, incidentally, the moderator finds somewhat offensive.
And third, I've up until this point refrained from editing or deleting anyone's posts, except in the case where there was unintentional duplication. I won't delete this thread either, if only to leave it as an example of the sort of content not to post in the Celestia forum.

Ah, here's the real message. I must say, you are very stoic to say it is only somewhat offensive and talk about censoring it. You are right not to censor my message, as censorship is a means of control only used by evil people seeking to prevent criticism/embarrasment/opposing views. But that is the extent of your being right.

Is it really political, blustery patriotism to smile at the sight of Apollo 11 with Earth behind it on the day of the signing of the Declaration of Independence? If you're European, that's alright, but I don't see how a red-blooded American's heart would not be moved by such a sight.

[daesotho]

If the link above doesn't work, try this instead.

Sorry about my comment about your browser, Chris. I hope with this link you can see it, it's very moving and beautiful alone in the night. Thank you for helping create this program. Long live the Republic!

[John Van Vliet]

Nice add popup it went BOOM

http://software.xfx.net/utilities/popupkiller/tsguide/index.html

Ps i am just testing this program is there a better one

[Dave S.]

I'm probably responding to someone who is just trolling, but err... the Apollo program didn't exist until nearly 200 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed.

Please. Keep your politics off the board.

Dave S.

[Guest]

patriotism is only needed when fresh flesh and young blood is needed. More money for telescopes and spaceships, and less money for childs play.

[Daesotho]

[quote="Dave S."]
...the Apollo program didn't exist until nearly 200 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed.
[quote]
Of course it did- Celestia said so! That image IS genuine, after all.

[Guest]

Ehi Daeshoto! You're so funny man! Great ideas!
Then I'm preparing some shots:

1980-1988
StarWars over Earth
Maybe Shrox would help us with a President SuperReagan 3D model flying over an enormous Red Imperial Battleship followed by John Williams Imperial Theme?

August, 6th 1945
Preventive War
A funny H-Bomb (I think I'll use the Sun with a strange falling orbit) crushing Hiroshima to calm these nervous Japanese people.
Maybe they wanted to continue to honestly fight instead.

And, last but not least, my favourite idea:

September, 11th 1973
What? Weren't they USA fighters?
Ufos on Santiago, Chile.
President Allende and some thousands Chile people thank your patriotism.

I assure you all this things come not from my un-scientific imagination...Celestia created them for us.

[TheManFromUtopia]

Oooops! Sorry! Last post is mine!

[Luke Vyrm]

1.8 million years ago the first humans appered on earth, and for a long time it was said that they evolved from primates, but this is false- here is an actual (I didn't modify it) image proving that humans came from space- the Gemini, with a emblem resembeling, probably by pure chance, the flag of the United States of America, orbiting earth, bearing the first shipload of humans to the new land...(click here to see the image)... Http://www.geocities.com/lukevyrm2000/gemini.html heh heh heh...
-Luke Vyrm
http://www.geocities.com/lukevyrm2000

[Paul]

Chris, please reconsider censoring this thread. Desotho's mindless regurgitation of "Dubya" propaganda is not only upsetting in an international forum, it's also completely off topic regardless of whatever lame device he's used to try and make it so. If he wants to spout lies about U.S. foreign policy he can freely do it somewhere else.

Thanks for reading,
Paul

[Luke Vyrm]

Paul:Chris, please reconsider censoring this thread.

No, don't for this reason:

Daesotho:as censorship is a means of control only used by evil people seeking to prevent criticism/embarrasment/opposing views.

I agree with daesotho here, though I don't agee with his political veiws, he is 100% right on this point.

Paul:it's also completely off topic...

Actually, it's perfectly on-topic. I belive he is pokeing fun at the fact that Celestia has practicly no sense of time. I tried the same thing, and it worked. I tried Galileo on his birthdate, but the Galileo dissapered some time around the 1940's I belive. I did the Gemini when human's reportedly evolved from apes. Anyway, that's the meaning that I take from it so, It's not a completely off topic, as I draw a completely ON-topic
standpoint from his posts

Paul:...regardless of whatever lame device he's used to try and make it so.

So celestia is lame? I agree it gets boring after a while but...

Paul:If he wants to spout lies about U.S. foreign policy he can freely do it somewhere else.

I agree with you again here. So in conclusion, I urge you Chris, NOT to censor this thread.

-Luke Vyrm
http://www.geocities.com/lukevyrm2000

[Guest]

Paul:Chris, please reconsider censoring this thread.

No, don't for this reason:

Daesotho:as censorship is a means of control only used by evil people seeking to prevent criticism/embarrasment/opposing views.

I agree with daesotho here, though I don't agee with his political veiws, he is 100% right on this point.

Really? If it were that simple, all our forums would be on USENET - unfortunately in reality, there are practical issues to consider - political stuff starts arguments or flame-wars, and upsets readers who may leave. Luckily Chris has highlighted it as an example of what he won't tolerate, and people have also left it well alone - which is good. Let's also hope nobody has left.

Actually, it's perfectly on-topic. I belive he is pokeing fun at the fact that Celestia has practicly no sense of time. I tried the same thing, and it worked. I tried Galileo on his birthdate, but the Galileo dissapered some time around the 1940's I belive. I did the Gemini when human's reportedly evolved from apes. Anyway, that's the meaning that I take from it so, It's not a completely off topic, as I draw a completely ON-topic
standpoint from his posts

So as long as I post a Celestia screenshot that just happens to show the date of whatever political event I want, I can get on my political soapbox and be "perfectly on-topic"??? Whew, that argument is just asking for trouble.

Well, that's the last two cents I'm willing to throw at this thread, so feel free to post a rebuttal, then hopefully this topic will sink into obscurity never to be read again.

Cheers,
Paul

[daesotho]

Paul, I find it very unamerican and even unintelligent that you would suggest censoring this thread. As I have said before, here and elsewhere, and will continue to say, censorship is simply wrong, and our founding fathers knew that when they wrote the Constitution. And even if you dislike my political views, surely you don't dislike the picture?
As for political stuff starting arguments and flame-wars, I believe you guys started picking on me first. All I did was submit a picture and a prayer to this forum, a picture that I could only have created with your excellent software and my passionate love of my country that your software helped ignite anew.
And Paul, why did you post asking for a rebuttal, while saying that you will not read it when it is posted? If that is the case, then I write this not for you, but for the other people, that they may not be infected by your political correctness. Why can't we all just pat ourselves on the back once in a while? It's a beautiful image. You Celesita people did a great job, and this is my way of saying thanks to you and to my country where much of what made the development possible was invented.
ManFromUtopia, you can take those shots, but this image I have taken to my heart. I can't believe how much antiamericanism this image has generated, if I had known it would be like this, I wouldn't have posted it. All I can say is, God bless America.

[Rassilon]

I think your missing the point...Sure Iraq is hated by many americans but this is not the place to talk about such political views...Like mentioned this is for astronomy discussion...If you like to debate politics heres a very nice forum to discuss such views: http://www.sgnonline.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=6

Please keep the peace...

[Rigel]

I don't want to reopen a political debat, but I was really shocked by the first message of Daesotho who started this topic, in a forum dedicated to the use of this wonderful software : Celestia. And since I have read this post, I was asking myself whether or not I will post a reply (in my vague english !).

Blustery patriotism are the right words to describe such a post. And I would add dangerous patriotism to this, as all patriotisms are. It could be a long way until we reach a "mankind patriotism". Maybe in a few thousands years ?

I cannot believe, that someone sensitized to the beauty and the immensity of the universe, through the use of a software like Celestia, or through its own readings, can write something like this.

One kilometer away from where I live here in the east of France, is a monument dedicated to the crash of an american B25 in 1944 during WWII. We all know here what americans did for us in that troubled period, but we cannot agree with the fact that the US governement seems today to often consider war as the only mean to solve problems.

So, this afternoon, I will certainly go to town and participate to the manifestation for peace and against a new war. And if I don't go, my heart will be with them.

Have all a nice week-end... and God bless the Earth...and the Universe...

[daesotho]

Rigel, you did not reopen a political debate, the political debate was opened by Chris' blustery antipatriotism, and never closed.
You say you cannot believe, [sic] that someone sensitized to the beauty and immensity of the universe ... can write something like this. Well, I am senitized to the beauty and immensity of the universe. And the picture is beautiful, though obviously it is of something close to home. I love Celestia, I love America; why can't you people see that?

Rassilon, you say that "Iraq is hated by many [A]mericans". That is not true. It is for the very reason that we love Iraq that we so hate her dictator.

I could here post some reasons why Hussein must be removed, but that is for a different forum. God willing, you will understand in time.

[julesstoop]

Could we please leave God out of it? I, for one, do not believe He/She would like us to discuss our political differences in His/Her name. Deeply believeing in an ultimate being, doesn't give you the knowledge nor right to think you can speak for it. Doing so actually erodes Gods ultimacy.

Please keep politics separated from beliefs.

[Guest]

daesotho, you do know that people outside of america use this program. or are you one of those stereo types that thinks that the only people in the world are americans and people who hate them. sorry to sound like a troll but not everyone cares about american history or where the apollo 11 mod is on a cereaint date. btw i am an australian that thinks we should be at peace.