Warp - Celestia Solar System Generator

[MaxLambertini]

Note: this is my first post here, and I hope this does not sound like a shameless plug.

I am developing a program to generate fictious solar systems for RPG according to these rules, and I want it to output Celestia .SSC files.

A preliminary version of this program is available here ( http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip ), while a weblog documenting its development steps is here ( http://warp2010.co.cc ).

The current version of the program works under WinXP, provided you've got .NET framework 2.0 installed. Should work under Linux and OSX, provided you've got MONO runtime installed, but I haven't tested it on my linux partition yet.

The .ssc files it produces work quite well in Celestia. However, there are some limitations:

* It uses only PNG/JPG maps
* The current version does not use bump maps (I plan to add this feature later)
* You have to set some configuration parameter manually (namely, the Celestia texture destination path, as per README instructions)
* It's based upon a random generator (however, earthlike planets are positioned in correct life zones)
* You have to provide your own custom textures (I've included only some starters)
* It's still quite incomplete, because it is part of a larger project.

However, I feel it is quite ready for a public release.

Again, I invite you to download and try this program:
http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip

[ElChristou]

Welcome!

I've been reading a few entries of your blog and it seems to be interesting! Can you tell us a bit more about the whole project?

[MaxLambertini]

Sure!

I've been a longstanding fan of 2300AD Roleplaying game. It's an obscure RPG first published in 1986 which featured a near star map based upon Gliese 1969 catalog. In its background, starship could not cover more than 7.7ly with a single jump, thus giving birth to a "stellar geography" made of "jumplines" and "choke points". Moreover, the same game featured a solar system generator (totally random based, but useful nonetheless). The "realistic" feel of these features hooked me to the game forever.

I'm a programmer, and whenever I got to learn a new programming language, I wrote a stub of the aforementioned planetary generator.

Some ten years ago, I also wrote a routing prrogram that calculated the optimal route to reach a given star in the Starmap, and added a planetary generator in it. It was 1999, and there was no Celestia then.

Recently, I started working on a new version of Warp (Warp Assistant Routing Program) again, and this time, I translated in c# an incomplete set of python scripts I wrote two years ago to generate Celestia systems that I never made public since I felt they were too "unfinished" to deserve publication. This time, I wanted to create something more "organic", and the Celestia Solar System Generator was the first to see the light of the day.

Again, there are a lot of rough edges: other than those already mentioned, the current incarnation of the program does not handle .3ds or .cmod models for asteroids or chunks. As you can see, it's still "unfinished", yet I feel it is already quite useful as a "starting point generator" for those willing to write a Celestia Add-On.

[ElChristou]

Ok; you say here that what's hooked you with this game was the realistic part; so I used this to ask if your system generator is based real physics to depict a system as realistic as possible or the goal is to do just something that could "look real" but... "don't look to the details"...

[bh]

Hmmm... sounds very interesting indeed... some time ago Rassilon wrote one that worked well (IMO). That was win only I think.
Will give yours a try when mac ready... don't have MONO runtime.

[Reiko]

The download link doesn't see to work.

[MaxLambertini]

I have changed it yesterday afternoon. However, the link should work: I tried it and it worked.

http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip

[Reiko]

I have changed it yesterday afternoon. However, the link should work: I tried it and it worked.

http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip

When I click on it nothing happens. The page just gets stuck.

[BobHegwood]

When I click on it nothing happens. The page just gets stuck.

That's probably because of all the pop-ups and advertising going on.
Try right-clicking on the link and selecting "save link as."
Worked for me.

[Reiko]

When I click on it nothing happens. The page just gets stuck.

That's probably because of all the pop-ups and advertising going on.
Try right-clicking on the link and selecting "save link as."
Worked for me.

That did the trick, thanks!

[Guckytos]

Hi Max,

interesting to have finally another SSC generator in the works.

I don't konw, if you found the link to the old SSC generator from Rassilon, that is now hosted here.

See from the post here: http://shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12317
So when someone wants to develop it further or to adapt it to the new Celestia features, the permission has been granted by Rassilon.

Best regards,

Guckytos

[duds26]

The current version of the program works under WinXP, provided you've got .NET framework 2.0 installed. Should work under Linux and OSX, provided you've got MONO runtime installed, but I haven't tested it on my linux partition yet.

The .ssc files it produces work quite well in Celestia. However, there are some limitations:

* It uses only PNG/JPG maps
* The current version does not use bump maps (I plan to add this feature later)
* You have to set some configuration parameter manually (namely, the Celestia texture destination path, as per README instructions)
* It's based upon a random generator (however, earthlike planets are positioned in correct life zones)
* You have to provide your own custom textures (I've included only some starters)
* It's still quite incomplete, because it is part of a larger project.

However, I feel it is quite ready for a public release.

Again, I invite you to download and try this program:
http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip

Please don't depend on .NET and Mono,
It's a really big dependency on Mac and Linux.
Not many people want to install those big frameworks from Microsoft for Mac and/or Linux.
EDIT: Why not use Java?
Most people have the Java Runtime Environment already installed for something else.
This would make a very good solution for making stuff cross-platform.


That it isn't possible to use bump maps isn't such a big problem / deal because normal maps are being used in Celestia also.
(Every bump map is actually being converted to a normal map by Celestia in the rendering process.)

PNG an jpeg are very good choices.
If you want to add other image formats,
TIFF and JPEG2 (C library: http://www.openjpeg.org/, Java library: http://jpeg2000.epfl.ch/)
would make excellent additions to your program.
(If you can also ad those formats in Celestia)

[MaxLambertini]

I reckon that runtime size can be quite an issue, but there are also a lot of mainstream linux distros that have mono preinstalled (OpenSuse, for instance).

For performance's sake, I would have loved to write it in Delphi... but this means being tied to windows, while mono gives me a quite working multiplatform capability.

Writing a truly multiplatform program requires:

a) a lot of skill if you don't use any toolkit
b) a runtime/framework to download, and a lot of time to learn.

I know that there are alternatives: wxWidgets, for instance. But I know little C++, and I'd have to study a whole new framework. wxPython -- wxWidgets python port -- is way easier, but you still have to install a (smaller) runtime. In fact, I wrote an ancestor of Warp CSS in wxPython some two years ago. It's even more unfinished, but it works.

If you don't mind installing python and wxpython framework, I can make this generator freely available too, that has been tested on Windows and Linux (and should work easily on macs w/wxPython).

[duds26]

Microsoft is making Mono for fighting Linux.
Okay you get the source code,
but only under Microsoft license conditions.
Have you read them?

Code: Select all

And this is the plan for Mono:

First it's made as good as possible so everybody uses it.
Then if .net/mono has enough inertia to stay.
Then make Linux (other OS's ) with mono more expensive than windows, and there you have it.
Microsoft is going to ask money for it or/and use it to disable Linux and other OS's other than Windows.
 



Python looks acceptable with wxpython, although Qt would be good to.

But I know little C++, and I'd have to study a whole new framework.

So you prefer studying dozens of frameworks instead of studying languages which are generally more reliable on the long term?
A framework also has to be learned. They also get revised and the api's and functions changed, improved, updated, removed.

Please don't see a framework as something to stay / to be very reliable.
Changes in the computer world also happen with frameworks very fast.
And learning C++ would be a very good decision because most programs are written in it.
(Including Celestia) Plus you if you're skilled in C++ you could write stuff in Celestia.

Use Java, it's cross platform and a lot of people have already installed Java for other stuff.
The Java Runtime Environment isn't very large and very accessible for everyone,
this would make a great solution.

Here is a link to an good IDE for Java.
http://www.netbeans.org/
It comes with very much documentation about Java and using the IDE.
This makes it an excellent IDE for people who are learning Java, programming.
There are also other IDE's that can be used for programming Java, e.g. Eclipse with the Java plugins.

[MaxLambertini]

I'm not here to start a thread about the "purity level" of Mono in Open Source World. I'm comfortable with c# as I was with delphi and I'll keep on developing Warp with c# because I like it. I'm just here for some shameless self-promotion

However, for those who express some concern about the choice of language, I am happy to release the Ancestor of Warp 2010 Celestia Solar System Generator, written in Python 2.4+ wxPython 2.4.x. It's got even rougher edges, but it does its job.

Read this http://warp2010.co.cc/2009/03/17/source-code-night/ for some information, and follow this link: http://warp2010.co.cc/Warp2010/Warp_Cel ... _Setup.zip to get the Python code.

[duds26]

Thanks for releasing solar system generator in Python, it's appreciated.

Best regards.

duds26