White text on clear background almost disappears

[ANDREA]

I think someone already asked about this, long time ago, but the search gave me no rssults, so it is here once again.
The white texts shown in Celestia, both the four corners text and the cel-celx scripts text, are very visible, because normally the background is dark or black.
But sometimes, when we are close e.g. to a planet or a nebula, the text disappers almost completely.
My question: could it be shown the same way in which Windoze shows it (dunno for the other OS, but I think be the same), i.e white text over a black background?
To make this clear, look at the image below (BTW, it's a detail of the "Still life with gilt cup" from Dutch painter Willem Claesz, about 1630 AD, in Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam), and you can find the image here:
http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/images/aria/sk/z/sk-a-4830.z
Chris, any possibility to solve this problem, please?
Thank you.

Andrea

[ElChristou]

Hey, nice choice for background!

Now, the solution your are proposing is far from be the better choice from the aesthetically point of view. A better one is an adaptive color depending on what is below. Think in the blending options in PS...

[ANDREA]

Hey, nice choice for background! Now, the solution your are proposing is far from be the better choice from the aesthetically point of view. A better one is an adaptive color depending on what is below. Think in the blending options in PS...

Happy you like it, I love that painting from many years ago, when I saw the original in Amsterdam.
Regarding the topic, you are absolutely right, but that same solution was proposed (without any result, BTW) at the time of the previous request, years ago.
As we say here: "Something is always better than nothing" so, if possible, I think that even a not elegant solution like Windoze's one could be accepted, IMO, waiting for something better, later on, if and when it will be possible.
Just an opinion, obviously, I would like to read what the other education-involved Celestia people think about this.
Bye

Andrea

[chris]

Hey, nice choice for background! Now, the solution your are proposing is far from be the better choice from the aesthetically point of view. A better one is an adaptive color depending on what is below. Think in the blending options in PS...

I don't favor this choice at all--I think it would be very distracting indeed for the color of the text to change as the camera moved. What happens when part of the text overlays a planet and the other portion is over empty space? Does the text appear in two different colors? To me, that is unacceptable. Do we instead choose a single color that will be visible in both areas? I can't think of any algorithm for choosing colors that would produce satisfactory results.

As we say here: "Something is always better than nothing" so, if possible, I think that even a not elegant solution like Windoze's one could be accepted, IMO, waiting for something better, later on, if and when it will be possible.
Just an opinion, obviously, I would like to read what the other education-involved Celestia people think about this.

We could get better results than the Windows text by using a semi-transparent background instead of an opaque black background.

--Chris

[ANDREA]

As we say here: "Something is always better than nothing" so, if possible, I think that even a not elegant solution like Windoze's one could be accepted, IMO, waiting for something better, later on, if and when it will be possible.
Just an opinion, obviously, I would like to read what the other education-involved Celestia people think about this.

We could get better results than the Windows text by using a semi-transparent background instead of an opaque black background.
--Chris

I didn't dare to suggest this, given the experience on this subject with VISTA tranparent windows, very nice but sucking a lot of memory, but surely it would be much better than both given solutions, IMO.
Do you think this could be implemented with a not so big effort, Chris?
If yes, can we hope to have it in the next 1.7?
Thank you for your reply.
Bye

Andrea

[chris]

As we say here: "Something is always better than nothing" so, if possible, I think that even a not elegant solution like Windoze's one could be accepted, IMO, waiting for something better, later on, if and when it will be possible.
Just an opinion, obviously, I would like to read what the other education-involved Celestia people think about this.

We could get better results than the Windows text by using a semi-transparent background instead of an opaque black background.
--Chris

I didn't dare to suggest this, given the experience on this subject with VISTA tranparent windows, very nice but sucking a lot of memory, but surely it would be much better than both given solutions, IMO.
Do you think this could be implemented with a not so big effort, Chris?
If yes, can we hope to have it in the next 1.7?
Thank you for your reply.

Transparent panels are very easy to add to in Celestia and consume no extra memory at all. But, before adding a transparent background, we need to think about some reorganization of the text. Simply adding semi-transparent rectangles behind all the text in the current layout wouldn't look so good.

--Chris

[ANDREA]

Transparent panels are very easy to add to in Celestia and consume no extra memory at all. But, before adding a transparent background, we need to think about some reorganization of the text. Simply adding semi-transparent rectangles behind all the text in the current layout wouldn't look so good.--Chris

Chris, if the semi-transparent rectangle has a "medium" transparency and/or color, cannot it at least partly solve the problem?
Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean.
Can you give an example, please?
Thank you.

Andrea

[Imy]

What about a black (or gradient) edged font?

[julesstoop]

Reading this thread I'm suddenly thinking something along the lines of the pop-up names of applications in the OS X dock:

[ElChristou]

Hey, nice choice for background! Now, the solution your are proposing is far from be the better choice from the aesthetically point of view. A better one is an adaptive color depending on what is below. Think in the blending options in PS...

I don't favor this choice at all--I think it would be very distracting indeed for the color of the text to change as the camera moved. What happens when part of the text overlays a planet and the other portion is over empty space? Does the text appear in two different colors? To me, that is unacceptable. Do we instead choose a single color that will be visible in both areas? I can't think of any algorithm for choosing colors that would produce satisfactory results...

Chris, of course I do agree a 2 color text would be horrible. Now, that's the kind of stuff you can get if you use a negative effect or such and that's not a good solution. Ideally your text need to be a few tones above the medium tone from below. Of course I have no idea on how this cold be code, but the idea is to find out the medium tone of a specific area (the area under the text + a few px around to get a smoother result), then the text would adapt his tone itself. The result is a text changing it's tone but not color. A medium blue become almost white on a very clear area, and become dark blue over the black stellar background. Off course, you won't be able to display something brighter than pure white but I doubt it's a problem for Celestia...

Such system would also be ideal for all the labels with which we have the same problem.

(BTW, we use "tone" in art stuff, but that's the brightness value of a color. A 255 pure red and a 255 pure blue have the same tone; desaturate them and you'll get a single grey)