Planetshine

[ElChristou]

Anther post just to say I LOVE this feature...
Tx again chris!

[ajtribick]

I believe this is the result of cloud shadows on gas giants. I already talked to Chris about this before. The cloud shadows shouldn't be turned ON in the case of gas giants.

But what about Neptune?

[selden]

That looks like an application for
CloudNormalMap
to me.

[ajtribick]

In the case of Neptune the shadows are on the lower (bluer) cloud decks, and the cirrus clouds are much higher in the atmosphere - therefore it isn't really a CloudNormalMap job - these are not thick clouds.

[Brendan]

I looked at a Magellan addon and the planetshine from the reflective clouds of Venus was bright.

[fsgregs]

OK, now I am really confused.

When planetshine was first coded into SVN 4239, it came with several shaders. When I installed it into my 1.5.0 folder and ran it with an add-on I had, this is what I got:

SS1.jpg

Notice the clearly blue tint to Earthshine, and the glint of sunlight, etc. off the right top of the station. It was spectacular.

I have since installed later versions of SVN (4309) with their shaders, and the above effect is now gone. Here is what I get now, with all the parameters, position, etc. exactly the same.

SPV2.jpg

I have OpenGL 2.0 active. I tested it by looking at Earth and OpenGL 2.0 is working. Notice that the glint of sunlight is gone, and the earthshine is not really blue. It is far less dramatic ... I have ambient light set to off as I had before, so that is not the problem. I can't think of any other control that would be different between the two shots. All my add-ons are unchanged.

I tried running SVN 4239 with it, and the effect is the same. I, therefore, suspect that there are new shaders that have changed planetshine for the worse

Could this be true, or is there something I am overlooking?

Unfortunately, I did not keep the zip file for SVN 4239. To test this out, does anyone still have the SVN 4239 zip file (Cartrite???)? I would like to test it out and see if it fixed this problem. If so, please email it to me at fsgregs@comcast.net, or post it on a link. Thanks.

Frank

[cartrite]

Frank,
The shader folder has not changed since I started putting them in the zip file. Actually, I think there was one change to the shader files about a month ago. They are not for Planetshine though. They are for HDR. You would have to be using the HDR executable for this to make a difference.

I think there was some changes in the url code again. That may be why it looks different. It's position has changed? In any case I don't save the old zip files. They get deleted. The shaders are the same and I never touch them unless they are updated. The only things that change are the executables and the readme file.

If you need the older shader files because you were using the HDR executable with your addon to take that screen shot, They can be found here.
http://celestia.svn.sourceforge.net/vie ... ision=4224
http://celestia.svn.sourceforge.net/vie ... ision=4224
http://celestia.svn.sourceforge.net/vie ... ision=4224
http://celestia.svn.sourceforge.net/vie ... ision=4224
Right click on them and "save link as" or "Save Target as"
Here are the file names.
bumpdiffuse_arb_hdr.vp
bumphaze_arb_hdr.vp
night2_arb_hdr.vp
night_arb_hdr.vp
Hope this helps.
cartrite

[chris]

Frank,
The shader folder has not changed since I started putting them in the zip file. Actually, I think there was one change to the shader files about a month ago. They are not for Planetshine though. They are for HDR. You would have to be using the HDR executable for this to make a difference.

I think there was some changes in the url code again. That may be why it looks different. It's position has changed? In any case I don't save the old zip files. They get deleted. The shaders are the same and I never touch them unless they are updated. The only things that change are the executables and the readme file.

You're absolutely right about the shaders--they don't affect planetshine at all. The changes to the URL code haven't been checked in yet, so that's not the culprit either. Nothing should have changed with planetshine; if it has, it's almost certainly a bug that will have to be fixed.

--Chris

[cartrite]

Frank,
If you post the url to the Space stations position and a link to the addon you are using, I'll take a look at it.

I tried running SVN 4239 with it, and the effect is the same. I, therefore, suspect that there are new shaders that have changed planetshine for the worse

If the old executable gives you the same result, you must have changed a data file or something. solarsys.ssc ? Are you using a different rotation method for earth?
Here is a longshot. Try going to the url and then set the time back 1 hour.
cartrite

[fsgregs]

Thanks for the comments everyone. Sadly, nothing is working. I am not getting much of a glint off of the space station, no matter what I do and planetshine may be present but the color is no longer there. The shine is white, not pale blue, no matter what SVN version I try.

Here is the Hubble as another example.

Hubble.jpg

Notice that there is no trace of blue color in the planetshine.

When I cycle through the five render paths, Earth changes in each case from Basic to OpenGl 2.0, but there is absolutley no change on the light reflecting off the station. Is that indicative of something?

Here is a link to the space station: It is part of Linuxman's 2001 add-on. Unzip and install it in your extras folder.
http://celestiasws.free.fr/2001jm/2001jm.zip

Here is the actual celURL I am using.

cel://Follow/Sol:Earth:Space Station V/2008-04-04T18:17:24.54066?x=/mRSp0d207rw/////////w&y=lDpREz4jtv///////////w&z=JqewMYqIChQE&ow=0.817036&ox=0.513464&oy=-0.261810&oz=0.016205&select=Sol:Earth:Space Station V&fov=35.194855&ts=0.000000&ltd=0&p=0&rf=319383&lm=0&ver=2

Please test it out and post a photo or two of what you get.

I am soooooo unhappy. My earthshine seems to have become washed out and colorless, and I don't know why I have not changed any other files (ssc, etc.) The only thing I did was download the latest version of SVN (4309) and install it. However, even with SVN 4239, I get the same effect. Honestly, the only things I changed between versions were the shaders which came with Cartrite's SVN 4309 zip file. I have since downloaded and installed the ones that he says predate those, but nothing has changed.

Chris, you mention that shaders have nothing to do with planetshine. Is there something else about them that could have changed beteween versions that could wash out planetshine color and reflectivity from a spacecraft surface? Obviously, something changed in shaders since they are included with every new SVN version???

Any help you guys can offer is appreciated. Post the pictures of the add-on from that celURL and see if you too can duplicate the lack of color and shine.

Frank

[chris]

Chris, you mention that shaders have nothing to do with planetshine. Is there something else about them that could have changed beteween versions that could wash out planetshine color and reflectivity from a spacecraft surface? Obviously, something changed in shaders since they are included with every new SVN version???

Any help you guys can offer is appreciated. Post the pictures of the add-on from that celURL and see if you too can duplicate the lack of color and shine.

I'm seeing the blue tint to planetshine along with the specular highlight. It's working in all render paths:

hubble-planetshine2.jpg

I'm not sure what could be going on. Do you have an add-on installed that's setting the color of the Earth to something other than what's in solarsys.ssc?

--Chris

[fsgregs]

Do you have an add-on installed that's setting the color of the Earth to something other than what's in solarsys.ssc

Chris:

Since you were not able to duplicate the problem, I took your advice and dumped my extras folder.

THE COLORED SHINE IS BACK!!!

I have discovered the problem. I had installed the "aurora" add-on around Earth that was made for 1.4.1 by Buggs and Cham. While it did not change Earth's ssc file, it did place a big cmod model surrounding Earth, showing the aurora at the poles. Interestingly, earthshine still came through it ... it just was not blue colored.

Here is the short ssc file for the aurora.

"aurora" "Sol/Earth"
{
Mesh "auroring.cmod"
Radius 9800
Emissive true

EllipticalOrbit
{
Period 9E10
SemiMajorAxis 0.000383
Inclination 90
}

RotationPeriod 1E14
Obliquity 0
}

I post it because I would love to be able to enjoy both it, and a nice blue earthshine. I am using both add-ons together in my educational activities.
Can you think of a way to edit the aurora ssc to allow blue planetshine to come though? I tried adding the Earth's atmosphere code to it, and all I got was a huge sphere around Earth.

I guess I can always create a fake Earth somewhere else and visit it in my activities via celURL just to show off the aurora, but ...

Frank

Frank

[cartrite]

Glad to see you figured it out. The Space Station is still downloading so.......
I'm not to sure how to get both addons working together.
You may want to try cmodfix. You can change it to ASCII and look at the material section in a text editor.
Maybe if it has a diffuse color other than what is in the solarsys.ssc file for earth.
Cartrite

[chris]

Do you have an add-on installed that's setting the color of the Earth to something other than what's in solarsys.ssc

Chris:

Since you were not able to duplicate the problem, I took your advice and dumped my extras folder.

THE COLORED SHINE IS BACK!!!

I have discovered the problem. I had installed the "aurora" add-on around Earth that was made for 1.4.1 by Buggs and Cham. While it did not change Earth's ssc file, it did place a big cmod model surrounding Earth, showing the aurora at the poles. Interestingly, earthshine still came through it ... it just was not blue colored.

Here is the short ssc file for the aurora.

"aurora" "Sol/Earth"
{
Mesh "auroring.cmod"
Radius 9800
Emissive true

EllipticalOrbit
{
Period 9E10
SemiMajorAxis 0.000383
Inclination 90
}

RotationPeriod 1E14
Obliquity 0
}

I post it because I would love to be able to enjoy both it, and a nice blue earthshine. I am using both add-ons together in my educational activities.
Can you think of a way to edit the aurora ssc to allow blue planetshine to come though? I tried adding the Earth's atmosphere code to it, and all I got was a huge sphere around Earth.

I guess I can always create a fake Earth somewhere else and visit it in my activities via celURL just to show off the aurora, but ...

Based on some discussion with Cham, I added a new object class to Celestia called "diffuse". This is intended for objects like dust plumes and gas clouds, and it seems appropriate for aurora as well. It will prevent the aurora from being included in the planetshine calculations. Add the line:

Class "diffuse"

to the definition of the aurora object.

The new class was required because without it, Celestia just thinks that the aurora object is another planet. Some sort extra information is necessary for Celestia to understand that it's different than a planet--it doesn't reflect light like a planet and you can't click select it like a planet.

--Chris

[cartrite]

I can confirm that by adding Class "diffuse" to the Magnetic-Storm.ssc as Chris suggested fixes your problem Frank.
cartrite

[John Van Vliet]

edit 5:31 pm

[BobHegwood]

Frank?

Don't know if you can use it or not, but John's Night Textures for the Earth also include a very nice aurora...
See the link at: http://celestiamotherlode.net/catalog/show_addon_details.php?addon_id=1092 for more information.

Just FYI...

Thanks, Bob

[fsgregs]

Chris:

Thanks. Using Class "diffuse" in the ssc file did the trick. Now I have both the aurora and great planetshine.

You might want to somehow advertise this new command to the forum community, since they will eventually run into a similar problem ... perhaps as a separate posting.

Nice work!!

Bob:

Thanks for the tip on the night texture. I am trying it out now.


Frank