Cloud shadows still buggy

[cartrite]

I noticed that cloud shadows turn off when you are viewing a planet VT. (not cloud vt). I know that cloud VT's turn shadows off but is by design?
Sorry. I just read this over. http://celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=97211#97211
Those of you who can't see cloud shadows, are you using a planet VT at the time?
cartrite

[cartrite]

Sorry I brought it up now. The point I'm really having though,
is how do I define these cloud textures to BE cloud textures.
Where in the SSC? do I define a texture as a cloud texture?

Does this question make sense?

Take care, Brain-Dead

I think the could textures are declared in a ssc file in the planet's atmosphere section. I think this ssc file can be an addon ssc file ie BMNG_VT.ssc but the cloud texture can't be in the addon/textures/folder. It must be in the celestia/textures/folder folder = hires, medres, lowres. At least that is how I think it works.
cartrite

[BobHegwood]

Just FYI...

I am using NO VT for clouds, Earth, or any other planet at the
moment. I do NOT have any cloud shadow texture defined anywhere
in my SSC files.

So how does checking the Cloud Shadows box implement cloud
shadows? If I don't know how to define a cloud shadow texture,
then how does it work?

Sorry for the confusion of my questions, but I do appreciate
your attempts to explain it here.

Thanks, Brain-Dead

[cartrite]

Just FYI...
So how does checking the Cloud Shadows box implement cloud
shadows? If I don't know how to define a cloud shadow texture,
then how does it work?

When you check the cloud shadow box, the program draws the shadows using the cloud texture you happen to be using.
cartrite

[abramson]

Bob:

You do not need a "cloud shadow texture". Shadows are generated by Celestia 1.5 from your regular clouds texture. The effect is subtle, though, as Chris said, because clouds are normally very close to the surface, relative to the planet size.

Try the following: set render path Open GL 2.0, center on Earth, with a normal (no VT) earth texture, and clouds activated, get to 1500 km using Home. Now "look up" using Down Arrow, until you see the horizon. Drag the Earth with Right Button until you see part of the oceans, if needed, or some other featureless region. You should see the shadows as in Chris's example, that is, as a dark border around the near edge of the clouds. Use the menu Render -> View Options and check the Cloud shadows checkbox on and off, and you should see the effect. The whole ocean gets a little darker, and the white clouds seem to "jump" a little (they do not, but the illusion is powerful).

Cartrite:

You *can* have your custom clouds somewhere else, to avoid modifying the distribution (and recustomizing after update...). In your extras folder, you probably have an Earth folder, perhaps down some custom hierarchy. Create a textures folder there, and hires, medres, lores folders within it. Put your custom clouds into one of them, say myclouds.png into the hires folder. Then create a custom earth.ssc in Earth folder, at the same level of the textures folder, with the following contents, and Celestia will load your custom clouds and shadow the surface below:

Code: Select all

Modify "Earth" "Sol"{
Atmosphere {
   Height 60
   Lower [ 0.43 0.52 0.65 ]
   Upper [ 0.26 0.47 0.84 ]
   Sky [ 0.40 0.6 1.0 ]
   Sunset [ 1.0 0.6 0.2 ]
   CloudHeight 7
   CloudSpeed 0 # Does anybody like South America shape running around the world?
   CloudMap "myclouds.*" # Custom extra cool hires clouds...
#   CloudNormalMap "myclouds-normal.*" # if you have any, this is cool...
   Mie 0.001
   MieAsymmetry -0.25
   Rayleigh [ 0.001 0.0025 0.006 ]
   MieScaleHeight 12
   }
}


Cheers,

Guillermo

[cartrite]

Cartrite:

You *can* have your custom clouds somewhere else, to avoid modifying the distribution (and recustomizing after update...). In your extras folder, you probably have an Earth folder, perhaps down some custom hierarchy. Create a textures folder there, and hires, medres, lores folders within it.

Yes this probably does work with the Modify satement. Never tried it. But it won't work with AltSurface. Or can you use an AltSurface after doing what you suggest and still see these modified clouds?
EDIT: Tried it and it works. So you can use clouds in the extras folder on all of your earth textures this way. I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday.
cartrite

[abramson]

Cartrite:

Yes, you can still use AltSurfaces. This is my setup, for example:

Code: Select all

extras
...
   Earth
       earth.ssc   <- Starting: Modify "Earth" "Sol" {
       textures    <- Containing whatever textures referred to in custom earth.ssc
           hires
               palebluedot.png    <- 4k surface + spec
               earth-normals.dds  <- 4k normals
               myclouds.png       <- 4k clouds
           medres
               palebluedot.png    <- 2k surface + spec
               earth-normals.dds  <- 2k normals
               myclouds.png       <- 2k clouds
               myclouds-normals.png   <- 2k normals
           lores
               palebluedot.png      <- 1k surface + spec
               myclouds.png         <- 512 clouds
               myclouds-normals.png <- 512 normals
        BMNG   <- containing BMNG AltSurfaces and additional textures
           BMNG-64k-spec2-january.ssc   <- Defining one AltSurface
           BMNG-64k-spec2-july.ssc      <- Defining another AltSurface
           textures
               hires
                   bmng-january.ctx       <- Defining a VT
                   bmng-july.ctx          <- Defining another VT
                   bmng-normal.ctx        <- Defining another VT
                   earth-nightlights.ctx  <- Defining yet another VT
                   bmng-january           <- Containing the tiles
                       levels...
                   bmng-july              <- Containing the tiles
                       levels...
                   bmng-normal            <- Containing the tiles
                       levels...
                   earth-nightlights      <- Containing the tiles
                       levels...
                   etc...
        locations   <- Folders with additional custom files
        ...


With this setup, I get custom default surfaces, clouds, normals, atmospheres, etc (defined in the earth.ssc via a Modify "Earth"), *and* whatever AltSurfaces (with their own clouds, nightlights, etc), that I have defined in the approppriate .ssc, and which I choose via right click on Earth. Right click -> Normal restores the default custom maps.

I've got the same for all the bodies for which I have custom files (mainly, higher resolution maps of the main satellites).

In this way, I avoid modifying at all the distribution files, either .ssc or textures, with the main advantage being that I can reinstall or recompile without losing any customizations, and that I can move my customizations to another machine just grabbing the "extras" folder.

I'm sure most of you people have something like this in your installations, that is the purpose of the "extras" folder after all. Anyway, I wanted to give some details on it because I can be of use to some beginners. We should put stuff like this in some document, shouldn't we?

Regards,

Guillermo

[cartrite]

Yes,
Thank You abramson,
You must have missed my edit though.

EDIT: Tried it and it works. So you can use clouds in the extras folder on all of your earth textures this way. I stand corrected. Learn something new everyday.

[BobHegwood]

Bob:

You do not need a "cloud shadow texture". Shadows are generated by Celestia 1.5 from your regular clouds texture. The effect is subtle, though, as Chris said, because clouds are normally very close to the surface, relative to the planet size.

Cheers,

Guillermo

Thanks VERY much for that explanation Guillermo... Was VERY
helpful. I'll let you know what I get when I have the time to
experiment with it again. I'm a little busy these days.

I should probably also stay away from this forum, since I cannot
keep my mouth shut here either.

Thanks again, Bob

[abramson]

You must have missed my edit though.

Right. Never mind, somebody will find the explanation useful.

Guillermo

[t00fri]

Hi Guillermo,

in our HELEN Executive Board meeting in Mexico City not long ago, it was decided that we are definitely going forward with an extension request of HELEN for another three years and this time

Bariloche

will be "on board"!

Great! So if we win the extension, I might well show up in Argentina in the near future.

Cheers,
Fridger

[abramson]

I might well show up in Argentina in the near future.

Excellent. We have good local beer in Bariloche. And dark skies.

By the way, I'm planning summer holidays, including a visit to the Pierre Auger Observatory, you know, thousands of square kilometers, ultra high energy cosmic rays. I will post in Physic and Astronomy if I get any nice pictures.

Regards and Merry Christmas to everybody.

Signing off,

Guillermo