Specularity

[BobHegwood]

Okay,

I'm gonna try one more time... My problem is that specularity
seems to be highly over-rated on my machine. In other words, the
effect displays itself much stronger than it should. I'm sorry, but
solid white solar arrays are NOT what I call good control of this
specularity issue.

Thus far I have:

Configured, configured again, and then re-configured my Nvidia
GeForce 8400 GS in my attempts to deal with previously mentioned
problems with specularity.

All to no avail. I have also created specularity texture maps which are
populated entirely with a BLACK background, and I've used these in
the prescribed manner on Mars - for example - with the Specular
Power set at 100 in order to reduce ANY specularity as much as
possible.

Still no luck. I have had some success with Earth, because I can
honestly say that the Earth's reflections off of the oceans looks as
it should. Well, as far as I know at any rate.

My primary problem occurs with the ISS, and the reflections from
the ISS Solar Panels. I have even tried adjusting the specularity
as it pertains ONLY to the ISS model without success. (Added
specular power statements to the SSC.)

Are we dealing with a real bug in Celestia, or do I still just not
have a clue as to what the hell I'm doing where this issue is
concerned?

ANY advice would be appreciated here. I have also used the
Nvidia control panel to add Celestia.exe as a controlling application
with the OpenGL options, and all set as they should be.

Anything else I can do here? I certainly never had any of these
problems WITHOUT an Nvidia graphics card, so I'm thinking that
there must be something I'm not doing correctly here.

All updates installed BTW.

Thanks, Brain-Dead

[MKruer]

Bob.

Does the images posted on the site aper too bright as well? I use to have a monitor that was always too dark, I am wondering if this might be something similar. Also since you are using Nvidia, I take it you have reset the drive setting (Color correction) I am jumping into this sort of late, sorry if these questions have been asked before

[chris]

Bob,

To the best of my knowledge, there's no bug related to specular highlights in either Celestia or the NVIDIA OpenGL driver. In fact, since the OpenGL 2.0 path just uses a few math functions in a shader to calculate the light intensity from specular highlights, there's not any sort of specular feature in the driver that's being used (though there is in the other render paths.) Also, the driver for your GeForce 8400 is using almost all of the same code paths as it does for my GeForce 8800, which has no problem with specular lighting.

Most likely, the culprit is a bad planet definition in an ssc file or a bad 3D model. Or maybe specular highlights actually are being rendered correctly, but simply don't look right to you. I need some screen shots to really understand the problem, however.

--Chris

[ElChristou]

Bob, as Chris asked, a screenshot would be welcome, but I'm pretty sure it's just a problem of bad specularity tuning within the 3D file...

[BobHegwood]

The image above is the only one I can post for right now... Give me
a bit though. I'm re-installing everything in order to see if anything
else is wrong.

The problem is at its worst when using OpenGL render path 2.0, and
the above image is via OpenGL vertex program. I say this because
OpenGL 2.0 renders - not specularity - but an overall brightness to
the selected object. Mars, for example - is so bright that I can't see
the details on the surface.



Okay, the image above was generated from the same render path.
(OpenGL vertex program) As far as I can tell, this is how the
specularity is supposed to look. Yes?

Thanks, Bob

[BobHegwood]

One other note here...

When I view Mercury via John Van Vliet's 4k texture, I see a lot of
very BRIGHT details on the surface of the planet. I don't have Mars
or Mercury installed just now, or I'd post them for you.

Just seems that if the vertext program path works like it should for
Earth as shown in the previous message, then everything else should
render correctly too. This is not the case?

Am I going to have to rebuild every model I have? Does anyone ELSE
have these problems? The ISS shot is via bh's issnov074.3ds file and
I can find nothing wrong with the textures themselves.

At any rate, thanks VERY much for the feedback. I'll figure it out
eventually.

Take care, Brain-Dead

[BobHegwood]

Bob.

Does the images posted on the site aper too bright as well? I use to have a monitor that was always too dark, I am wondering if this might be something similar. Also since you are using Nvidia, I take it you have reset the drive setting (Color correction) I am jumping into this sort of late, sorry if these questions have been asked before

They DO using OpenGL 2.0 render path or OpenGl vertex with Nvidia combiners. In any other path, no problems. I don't think it's the monitor though. I have also adjusted IT out the wazoo.

Thanks, Bob

[ElChristou]

I have no experience with the OGL2 path (not available on my config) but your ISS shots seems familiar to me; have you such problem with my Voyager model for example?

[BobHegwood]

I have no experience with the OGL2 path (not available on my config) but your ISS shots seems familiar to me; have you such problem with my Voyager model for example?

No I don't Christophe, but here's the rub...

If I view the ISS via render path OpenGL 2.0, I have NO problem
with specularity. I just have problems with the overall brightness of
the selected object. In other words, the solar panels displayed above
are brown.

Here are some more shots for those of you in the know...

Mars via OpenGL 2.0 (Both this and the vertex path below are
irritating as hell.)


Mars via Multi-texture path


Mars via OpenGL vertex program (I HATE this display. Notice the
VERY bright orange spot below and around the 3 volcanoes.)


Mars via OpenGL/Nvidia combiners path


Make any sense?

[selden]

Bob,

I'm sure you must have looked already, and probably mentioned it but I've forgotten, but did you verify that there are no specularity declarations in the definition of Mars in /data/solarsys.ssc?

When you mentioned you'd adjusted your display, do you mean you physically pushed buttons on the display or that you moused adjustments in the Nvidia driver or both?

I think that the coloration of your Mars screengrab is somewhat pinker than what I see. This might be explained by the color adjustments in the driver not being quite right -- and maybe they're causing the apparent specularity.


This was created while using the OpenGL V2 render path.

[Fenerit]

(just a little out of topic)
Bob, seems to me or in the your first screen grab the vulcanoes are "reversed"? That is, they looks as inward bumps instead of to be outward bumps?

[BobHegwood]

Bob,

I'm sure you must have looked already, and probably mentioned it but I've forgotten, but did you verify that there are no specularity declarations in the definition of Mars in /data/solarsys.ssc?

I actually ADDED specularity declarations in order to see if any effects
could be had. I added a black specular image (with white at the ice
caps) just to make certain that the problem wasn't there.

When you mentioned you'd adjusted your display, do you mean you physically pushed buttons on the display or that you moused adjustments in the Nvidia driver or both?

BOTH... All to no effect. I'm getting angry at it now though, so I'll
figure it out if I have to throw the damned thing against the wall.

Ah, what a nice, relaxing past-time, eh?

One other thought occurs here though. Could it be that my
ISS problems occur exactly when the machine passes through the
specular reflection from the oceans? Seems to me that this could
also be part of the problem. At any rate, you guys have MORE
than tried to help me and I appreciate it immensely. I promise
that I will NOT mention it again until I get it fixed somehow.

Take care, Bob

[BobHegwood]

(just a little out of topic)
Bob, seems to me or in the your first screen grab the vulcanoes are "reversed"? That is, they looks as inward bumps instead of to be outward bumps?

No, the volcanoes are raised... It just looks that way because of the
re-sized screen grabs I think.

Thanks, Bob

[chris]

Does you see these problems with a straight out of the box Celestia install? Those images of Mars make me think that something is wrong in one of your ssc files.

--Chris

[bh]

Bob... is your ISS model displaying correctly now?

[BobHegwood]

Okay, I can take a hint...

I'm gonna remove EVERYTHING Celestia from my PC, and start one
more time. Chris, the only changes to SSC files are what I did to try
and fix the problem. Bob? The ISS still doesn't work correctly.

One other note...
When I followed the ISS around the world, it displayed the white
panels in the sunlight, but it did this under ALL of the render paths
available.

Once more into the fray. This time, I'll start from NOTHING.

Thanks for all the help guys, Bob

[BobHegwood]

Just FYI...

Same problem with ISS... Even after a brand-spanking NEW install
with NOTHING saved from old version. This problem also occurs on
the ISS that comes built-in with Celestia. It IS a little less pronounced
though. In other words, I can see some BLUE on the panels. Not
much, but enough to tell that they're blue. I can't see this on bh's
model, but the brown color tends to blend in with the overall
reflection of sunlight color.

Thanks all...
I'm gonna play with it some more and I'll let you know. I'm nothing
if not STUBBORN.

[MKruer]

Bob, I have an idea to rule out the drivers completely. I had to do this when I ran into issues with my ATi drivers.

First thing to do is to download the latest drivers if you do not have them
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winvista_x86_163.75.html

Once that is done uninstall your current video drivers. You will need to reboot for the settings to take effect. When you uninstalled the drivers the video will default to generic drivers that came with the OS. One hopes that these drivers are correct. The video response will be sluggish, but the rendering output should be good. You can launch Clestia and see if you are experiencing the same issues. If the issue is resolved then there is something wrong with the drivers that were installed. If that is the case use the latest drivers you downloaded from above.

[Fenerit]

Try also to lower the screen resolution and lower or raise the Hz of the video refresh, just for the "suggest of the moment", no more.

[BobHegwood]

Thanks guys, I have been downloading driver updates daily, but with
no success - at least so far - and I CANNOT change the refresh rate
on my monitor. It is welded to 60MZ and that's that. I can't change it.

The driver update seemed to look better somehow, but I didn't
notice anything I would say had repaired my problem. Remember,
that I'm using a very wide, flat screen monitor too, so I'll just have to
wait a bit I guess.

Thanks again, Bob