Cloudy_3D and GLnebula : real-time nebula visualisation

[jll]

Hello

I found new real time nebula visualsation projects :
http://132.248.1.102/Cloudy_3D/
http://sourceforge.net/projects/glnebula/

Developper explains
"GLNebula is a program designed for the real-time visualization of planetary nebulae models produced by photoionization codes. It uses camera-oriented quads and point sprites to achieve real-time speeds, also provides free camera movements. It has been developped by Juan Aja, undergraduate student at the UNAM, Mexico. The web page is available on the links part of the server."

I dont know if this can be useful to Celestia.

Regards

JLL

[meegja]

Mmm that GLNebula looks very interesting ... now I only have to figure out how the heck it is working?

[jll]

The process seems to be complex !

Describe a photoionization model of the nebula with Cloudy_3D (Unix mainly : I 'll need to rebuild my linux partition before to test this tool )

Save an ASCII "cubical grid" description of this model in 3 files.

Load this files with GLnebula.
Some examples are on line
http://glnebula.sourceforge.net/data/Hbeta.zip
http://glnebula.sourceforge.net/data/HeII.zip
http://glnebula.sourceforge.net/data/OII.zip

This process needs to be done for each nebula

JLL

[Stonejackit]

Don't know if this is usefull or has been discussed before, but is anybody aware of the great nebula renderer from Infinity-Programmer Flavien Brebion? I think it looks gorgeous and it's in realtime!
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums ... cyear=2006

Maybe he has some helpful ideas.

[ElChristou]

Don't know if this is usefull or has been discussed before, but is anybody aware of the great nebula renderer from Infinity-Programmer Flavien Brebion? I think it looks gorgeous and it's in realtime!
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums ... cyear=2006

Maybe he has some helpful ideas.

That looks interesting, but many problems with nebulae makes their rendering not so easy (even with a good rendering method, the lack of 3D informations of real objects make them almost impossible to do from a scientific point of view...)

But in all case, as the community seems to be almost dead I fear we will never see anything similar in Celestia...

[Stonejackit]

But in all case, as the community seems to be almost dead I fear we will never see anything similar in Celestia...

I know Celestia for a long time, but I am new to this forum. So, may I ask why the community seems dead? My impression was, that this forum and the community are very alive. Please explain.

[ElChristou]

But in all case, as the community seems to be almost dead I fear we will never see anything similar in Celestia...

I know Celestia for a long time, but I am new to this forum. So, may I ask why the community seems dead? My impression was, that this forum and the community are very alive. Please explain.

Well, recently I'm very busy because of my professional activity, so I've just been checking the activity of the forum + some more forums developing soft or games and indeed the situation of Celestia compared to more dynamical projects is a bit despairing...

Ok, the classic arguments are correct of course (Chris is also busy with other topics, we all have a life, etc...) but this is the very same for all OpenSource community... If the interest is really alive, there is always something going on... In our case, we have to deal with "holes" in the dev (long period of low or null activity), and each time we are losing something. All the big names are less and less present, less and less interesting topics, etc, so well, I fear those kind of "holes" will end killing once for all the entire community...

But perhaps I'm wrong and I hope so.

Now on the contrary, you find the place very alive; could you what gives you this felling?

[Stonejackit]

Guess I was too hasty.

Mmh, I can't really explain why it seemed to me that the community is alive.....maybe I think a few new posts a day or in few days IS a living community. But then again I have no idea how crowded this place was in the past.

Actually a little bit disapointing since Celestia is a such a wonderful piece of software.

Unfortunately I can't contribute any sort of help. I'm not a programmer. I do graphix (2d) though. So if there's a need for some menu design etc. let me know!

Don't let Celestia die!

[LordFerret]

I don't think Celestia will "die" any time soon. All manner of forums have their ups and downs (busy and not so busy periods)... so, right now things may not be as busy as it used to be, but that's not to say it never will be again.

I believe once the outstanding issues in the new version are resolved and a new "official" release replaces the current v1.4.1, you'll see more people showing interest again.

The outstanding issues as I currently see them, are accuracy and addon management. The accuracy issue is new and very important for Celestia's success with professionals in the scientific community. However, the addon management issue is the one which I see as being responsible for the lay-person ultimately losing interest in the program... and they're the majority of the user base. So many of these people show up in these forums for the first time, and although they love the program, they all seem to have the same problem - using addons.

Just my 2-cents.

[rthorvald]

Guess I was too hasty.
Mmh, I can't really explain why it seemed to me that the community is alive.....maybe I think a few new posts a day or in few days IS a living community. But then again I have no idea how crowded this place was in the past.

July and august is summer holiday time here in Europe, where a significant number of the regulars are, so naturally postings are more infrequent. I presume it is holidays in the US, too now, and that weighs in too.
In a couple of months, it will pick up. It is like this every year...

- rthorvald

[rthorvald]

However, the addon management issue is the one which I see as being responsible for the lay-person ultimately losing interest in the program... and they're the majority of the user base. So many of these people show up in these forums for the first time, and although they love the program, they all seem to have the same problem - using addons.

I don??t think the devs are too interested in making this a hobby package for the masses, and that is why there isn??t much focus on Add-Ons (i don??t mean they are UNinterested, just that the scientific challenges take priority.

This means the challenge is on the Add-On authors to produce good, accessible documentation and properly debugged, WORKING cross-platform add-ons. I see no problem with that, and i rarely get any confused feedback on any of my own work, some of which is the most downloaded stuff around. This tells me accessibility just requires some extra work on the author??s part. And, of course, open eyes on the end user??s part...

That said, i would be thrilled if we got a built-in add-on manager... But if we did get that, the add-on authors would STILL have to properly test, package and document their work. Most probably, a plug-and-play add-on would be tougher to produce than it is today, not easier.

- rthorvald

[LordFerret]

... the scientific challenges take priority.

I agree, it should be (as it is) the #1 priority. (But I still would like to see an addon manager! )

... open eyes on the end user??s part...

Yes, in the beginning, I too have been guilty of being lazy in not doing my own research of things. However, in being here, seeing all the things I have thusfar, the compelling topics of conversation, this has spurred me on to attempt to learn more. I've discovered many knowledged minds here - and I've had the pleasure of learning a little something from each of them! (I thank you all!)

And yes, here in the states during these summer months it's vacation/holiday time for many.

[t00fri]

The accuracy issue is new and very important for Celestia's success with professionals in the scientific community.
Just my 2-cents.

Sorry LordFerret,

here I strongly disagree! The accuracy issue is ALL BUT new.
Actually, we have always tried to make no compromises as to accuracy in Celestia. The point being, however, that it takes a lot of time to get everything as accurate as possible.

I am a member of the Celestia dev team since 5 1/2 years and have been involved at the pioneering front for a scientific level accuracy approach of Celestia all along. More important than merely "claiming" accuracy is the documentation of it (using scientific methodology!). Also here I introduced a lot of Celestia's present standards throughout the years.

Of course accuracy issues appear in two different locations: data base and simulation code. Chris has all along been trying to keep also the code part very accurate (e.g. VSOP87 for planets etc). Over years and still today, Grant Hutchison has been updating Celestia with a host of latest reliable data....


Bye Fridger

[ElChristou]

July and august is summer holiday time here in Europe, where a significant number of the regulars are, so naturally postings are more infrequent. I presume it is holidays in the US, too now, and that weighs in too.
In a couple of months, it will pick up. It is like this every year...

Could be, but indeed, if people are working, no time to dev, if they are on holiday... well they are on holiday!? No, again, holiday or not, IMHO if the interest is alive, there is always something cooking...

Till today I was wondering why we have so few coders here, I thought it was because the soft is quite specialized, but after digging a bit in other communities, it's clear that the main reason is that the place here is not attractive at all in the sense of we don't have any leadership, no plan, no dynamic of work, no frame in general around the project. Ok in some point of view it's better like this (for a one man work for example), but I suppose this scheme is not adapted at all for a shared effort...

Well, hope things will be better in a few weeks, but again I fear those periods will end boring so much people that they will stop any effort...

[rthorvald]

Could be, but indeed, if people are working, no time to dev, if they are on holiday... well they are on holiday!? No, again, holiday or not, IMHO if the interest is alive, there is always something cooking...

Well, i have followed the forums for nearly five years now, and i have noticed that things winds down around may/june and picks up again around october. Happens every year... The most activity is around new-year, it seems to me. This isn??t surprising, most of us are in the nothern hemisphere, and people tend to get out more when it is warm...

it's clear that the main reason is that the place here is not attractive at all in the sense of we don't have any leadership, no plan, no dynamic of work, no frame in general around the project.

I disagree. All that is there, but it is hard to see. All the info about it is fragmented, i am sure a lot goes on in PMs, some in the developers board, some on the sourceforge mail list, a lot of it in forum postings all over the place.

But you have pointed out something very important - that the developer efforts are badly advertised. This is naturally discouraging for new people - it is hard to evoke interest in something that is invisible.

Maybe it is time to collect all this in ONE place. The Celestia Home website would be a natural place for a page that does this. Having it easily accessible one one page that is regularily updated might make all the difference.

If there is interest, i can pitch in and make/run that page. I think it is important enough to be worth the effort. If Chris is around, can you comment? Let??s hear from the other devs, too... I think we can establish a routine for it easily, with very little effort.

- rthorvald

[Fenerit]

Could be, but indeed, if people are working, no time to dev, if they are on holiday... well they are on holiday!? No, again, holiday or not, IMHO if the interest is alive, there is always something cooking...

Well, i have followed the forums for nearly five years now, and i have noticed that things winds down around may/june and picks up again around october. Happens every year... The most activity is around new-year, it seems to me. This isn??t surprising, most of us are in the nothern hemisphere, and people tend to get out more when it is warm...

That's alright. E.a, now in Italy all persons are on the beach. The great nothern factory closed and many people leaves the industrial centres to come back to resides home in southern Italy. At this add the tourists from all world. It's difficult to stay in front of a computer with 85 - 87?°F and a hot wind from south. The situation usually return at the same paces about with the early September and tad.

[ElChristou]

All the info about it is fragmented, i am sure a lot goes on in PMs, some in the developers board, some on the sourceforge mail list, a lot of it in forum postings all over the place.

But you have pointed out something very important - that the developer efforts are badly advertised. This is naturally discouraging for new people - it is hard to evoke interest in something that is invisible.

Maybe it is time to collect all this in ONE place. The Celestia Home website would be a natural place for a page that does this. Having it easily accessible one one page that is regularily updated might make all the difference.

Not sure the main site is the right place for this, BUT yes what is missing on this site is a roadmap and a few news about the WIP. This to inform newcomers.

Now for the dev, or it's Sourceforge mailist or it's the forum.
I tend to prefer the forum because all is almost already here, and much visible in general (pict etc...). There is already a dev only forum, so I suppose what is missing is just the manpower...

So we are back with the old problem of making the stuff much more sexy than it is. To me it's time to structure a bit more the community, a few rules (sorry Fridger) would be welcome to redirect the newbies to "must read" docs (like Selden pages) to avoid posting that won't receive any responses because those questions are always the same. Perso I'd like to see a new definition of what is Celestia on the main site and also ON the forum to avoid any misapprehension, then why not an announcement to ask for manpower with what are the needed profile specifications, etc...

For the main site, what is also greatly missing is a few pages about the use of Celestia in the main spacial agency. In fact, actually this site also need some new picts of the last stuff like atmosphere, DSOs views etc...

Now, clearly Chris has the initiative of all this, but I understand those topics can be very boring for someone interested in results within the soft. So if he don't want to do the work, it would be nice to let someone else work on this (Runar (if he is ok) would be the ideal person for this of course)...

[selden]

People should be contributing documentation and examples to the Celestia WikiBook.

The English version is at
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Celestia

I think it would be reasonable for other translations to be made, too.

[t00fri]

I think this whole discussion is quite futile at this point.

-- we had it several times already without effecting anything
-- after announcing "full-time" work (= 50 + 5 hours/week) on Celestia, Chris has vanished since more than a month

So, let him (and other devs ) return before anything sensible may be agreed on...

Perhaps Selden knows, when Chris will be back? Usually he told me, but not this time. Still I know "some things".

I think what we need most urgently is new and LOOOONG overdue code AND further bug fixing such that at last Celestia 1.5.0 can take off. Anything else appears of lower priority to me.

I am coding quite a bit these days, following up a number of exciting things that I consider important .
To me unfortunately, the forum has become quite "noisy" again since some time, which appears like no fun.

Bye Fridger

[Cham]

I agree totally with Fridger.

Fridger, have you made something about the double stars (as mentionned in another thread) ?