Celestia Development Roadmap

[ElChristou]

...Rather than taking such a negative approach, it'd be more constructive if some of you actually took the time to test and evaluate the various existing solutions.

Bien dis!

[Pirx]

I'd like you all to remember that Celestia is an OpenSource application. As such, [...] you're still free to maintain a platform dependant GUI as well.

Does this mean I mustn't contribute to the discussion? "STFU and fork!"?

Qt4 is now split into various libs, so even if we do use it for threading and network access; you will only have to link libQtCore and libQtNetwork and not libQtGui.

Some posts ago you mentioned you are using the KDElibs, nut just QT.
Nevertheless, most Linux distributions will install the whole lib, because the package manager treat QT and kdelibs as monolithic packages.

Requiring Celestia to not depend on any external lib is really ridiculous, does that mean you refuse to use Spice aswell? or is it okay just because it's statically linked in?

Let me quote my last post:

For sure, celestia has and will have various dependencies - thats normal and perfectly right.

Probably you have read it converse, but obviously we agree in that point.

Rather than taking such a negative approach, it'd be more constructive if some of you actually took the time to test and evaluate the various existing solutions.

This again feels a little bit like a "STFU..." attempt. I have tried to be very polite and constructive. Obviously I have failed, I am sorry. I assumend that I was welcome to join the discussion without contributing to the project itself.

Regards, Joe

[selden]

Joe,

Of course your input is welcome.

You have to be careful in how you write things, however, and not be upset when people seem to say things that are overly negative.

(This is a rephrasing of a standard description of how one should write programs that have to conform to a standard: be strict in what you emit and generous in what you accept. )

Many of the people contributing to the Celestia Web forum are not native speakers of English and write things that are easily misunderstood in ways they didn't intend.

[ElChristou]

...

Rather than taking such a negative approach, it'd be more constructive if some of you actually took the time to test and evaluate the various existing solutions.

This again feels a little bit like a "STFU..." attempt. I have tried to be very polite and constructive. Obviously I have failed, I am sorry. I assumend that I was welcome to join the discussion without contributing to the project itself.

Regards, Joe

Joe, I don't think Christophe was refering to your intervention with this last sentence... Opinion and critism are always welcome if they are constructive of course...

[Christophe]

I'd like you all to remember that Celestia is an OpenSource application. As such, [...] you're still free to maintain a platform dependant GUI as well.

Does this mean I mustn't contribute to the discussion? "STFU and fork!"?

On the contrary, I'm saying we won't force the unified GUI on anyone. The unified GUI is the currently proposed solution to an existing problem: shortage of hands to maintain the existing GUIs. The most acute problem being with the Windows GUI which monopolises Chris's precious time which would be better spent on core stuff, and which featurewise is slowly falling behind.

My proposition is that considering whatever happens on the other platforms the port from KDE3 to KDE4 will have to happen, if we can take advantage of the cross platform nature of KDE4 to gain in the process a "free" uptodate GUI for Windows and OSX then what the hell, why not take advantage of it?

Now if OSX users think it is not up to part with the existing OSX interface, nobody is going to take it away from them.

Qt4 is now split into various libs, so even if we do use it for threading and network access; you will only have to link libQtCore and libQtNetwork and not libQtGui.

Some posts ago you mentioned you are using the KDElibs, nut just QT.
Nevertheless, most Linux distributions will install the whole lib, because the package manager treat QT and kdelibs as monolithic packages.

There are two issues here:
- using KDE4 for a unified GUI
- using Qt4 in the core, that way if you want to use a GTK/Gnome GUI you don't have to install KDE4.

Regarding the packaging of Qt4, you're wrong at least for debian based systems:

Code: Select all

kde-devel@tux:~/qt-copy/lib$ aptitude search libQt4
i   libqt4-core                                                                     - Qt 4 core non-GUI functionality runtime library
p   libqt4-core-kdecopy                                                             - Qt 4 core non-GUI functionality runtime library
p   libqt4-debug                                                                    - Qt 4 library debugging symbols
p   libqt4-debug-dev-kdecopy                                                        - Qt 4 debugging development files
p   libqt4-debug-kdecopy                                                            - Qt 4 debugging runtime libraries
p   libqt4-dev                                                                      - Qt 4 development files
p   libqt4-dev-kdecopy                                                              - Qt 4 development files
i   libqt4-gui                                                                      - Qt 4 core GUI functionality runtime library
p   libqt4-gui-kdecopy                                                              - Qt 4 core GUI functionality runtime library
i   libqt4-qt3support                                                               - Qt 3 compatibility library for Qt 4
p   libqt4-qt3support-kdecopy                                                       - Qt 3 compatibility library for Qt 4
p   libqt4-ruby                                                                     - ruby bindings for the Qt4 GUI library
p   libqt4-ruby1.8                                                                  - ruby bindings for the Qt4 GUI library
i   libqt4-sql                                                                      - Qt 4 SQL database module
p   libqt4-sql-kdecopy                                                              - Qt 4 SQL database module

And just to clear up a possible misconception here, libkdecore is 1.6MB, libQtCore 1,5 MB. That's hardly "bloat".

Requiring Celestia to not depend on any external lib is really ridiculous, does that mean you refuse to use Spice aswell? or is it okay just because it's statically linked in?

Let me quote my last post:

I was refering the Cham's posts here.

Rather than taking such a negative approach, it'd be more constructive if some of you actually took the time to test and evaluate the various existing solutions.

This again feels a little bit like a "STFU..." attempt. I have tried to be very polite and constructive. Obviously I have failed, I am sorry. I assumend that I was welcome to join the discussion without contributing to the project itself.

Again, here I was only encouraging people to install and try out Qt4 applications on their various systems so that they know what we are talking about.

[Pirx]

Christophe, I do understand your position, and I never wanted to tell you that your position is wrong. I know I am not able to judge about that topic, because I don't have the intimate knowledge of celestia like you presumably have.

Every decision has assets and drawbacks, but if you say you are aware about latter and still think the assets outweigh drawbacks - go ahead! All I want is to prevent you from going to regret the decission in a year due to not being fully aware of all drawbacks now. If you are aware - and your arguments gave me the impression you are - everything is fine.

Regards, Joe

[tech2000]

I would really like to be able to set the language in Celestia.

Please have that option in pre4.

Cheers, Anders

[ElChristou]

I would really like to be able to set the language in Celestia.

Please have that option in pre4.

Cheers, Anders

But Celestia don't use your system setting?

[selden]

When testing Celestia's text output, one needs to set a different locale without messing up other programs.

[dirkpitt]

Also note that locales are already customizable per-app on Mac OS X for any program, including Celestia.. but it doesn't appear to be readily possible on Windows.

[tech2000]

This might seem trivial, but I think this is missing so I will officially ask for this as an enhanced feature:

Celestia should really remember the FoV value in bookmarks.

and I'll make myself abit clearer with what I mean with I want to set the language in Celestia. I run my OS in english, for the simple reason that I like it that way. I also want to use swedish standard & formats in the regional options. What way Celestia gets localized in swedish, which gives a UI which has graphical flaws and strange translations... So I much prefer Celestia in english.

And that would be a nice option if that could be easily set in a settings menu.

Bye, Anders

[t00fri]

This might seem trivial, but I think this is missing so I will officially ask for this as an enhanced feature:

Celestia should really remember the FoV value in bookmarks.
...
Bye, Anders

Sorry, Anders,

Celestia for Linux-KDE not only has a beautiful bookmark toolbar, but also it remembers of course the FoV. The great feature exists since years!

Since we are anyhow contemplate a cross-platform GUI, the various missing features of the Windows GUI will be reconsidered anyhow under a "unifying" perspective...

Bye Fridger

[tech2000]

This might seem trivial, but I think this is missing so I will officially ask for this as an enhanced feature:

Celestia should really remember the FoV value in bookmarks.
...
Bye, Anders

Sorry, Anders,

Celestia for Linux-KDE not only has a beautiful bookmark toolbar, but also it remembers of course the FoV. The great feature exists since years!

Since we are anyhow contemplate a cross-platform GUI, the various missing features of the Windows GUI will be reconsidered anyhow under a "unifying" perspective...

Bye Fridger

Thanks for the info Fridger.

I hope that this unified GUI arrives sometimes soon..

Well, I'll most likely go ubuntu 100% from the 7 Juli. I touch swedish land again in gothenburg that afternoon.. back to the same sweet 100 megabits fiberoptic connection I once had before I moved to Chile...

Bye, Anders

[t00fri]

...
Well, I'll most likely go ubuntu 100% from the 7 Juli. I touch swedish land again in gothenburg that afternoon.. back to the same sweet 100 megabits fiberoptic connection I once had before I moved to Chile...

Bye, Anders

He, he, Anders,

congratulations! It seems you sold the house, right? I am sure you will be very happy meeting your family again in Sweden!!! Still rember your mothertongue?

Cheers,
Fridger

[Cham]

Haaa swedish gals !

[tech2000]

...
Well, I'll most likely go ubuntu 100% from the 7 Juli. I touch swedish land again in gothenburg that afternoon.. back to the same sweet 100 megabits fiberoptic connection I once had before I moved to Chile...

Bye, Anders

He, he, Anders,

congratulations! It seems you sold the house, right? I am sure you will be very happy meeting your family again in Sweden!!! Still rember your mothertongue?

Cheers,
Fridger

Fridger,

I haven't actually sold my house yet, but I'm sort of restless so I need to get back there to work... But I'm confident that the house would be sold soon enough..

Well, I really miss my wife's cooking...

Yes, it'll be nice to get back to the wife & kids.. They really give the day color.

Bye, Anders

[ElChristou]

Could the Roadmap be sticky? (I find it enough important to be one... and also (more pragmatic) I'm tired to always do a search to find it! )

[tech2000]

This might seem trivial, but I think this is missing so I will officially ask for this as an enhanced feature:

Celestia should really remember the FoV value in bookmarks.
...
Bye, Anders

Sorry, Anders,

Celestia for Linux-KDE not only has a beautiful bookmark toolbar, but also it remembers of course the FoV. The great feature exists since years!

Since we are anyhow contemplate a cross-platform GUI, the various missing features of the Windows GUI will be reconsidered anyhow under a "unifying" perspective...

Bye Fridger

Any chance of having this in Celestia for Linux-Gnome too?

bye Anders

[ElChristou]

TX!

[ElecMoHwk]

Any chance of celestia ever being able to load items via the web?