Interior of the planets

buggs_moran · Post #121by **buggs_moran** » 01.05.2007, 01:41

Cham wrote:tech2000,

this is a nice pict ! Is it a real model in Celestia ?

However, in the case of Jupiter and Saturn, there is no sharp layers inside, and only a continuous transition from gazeous to liquid and solid. So I don't think a model like this one would be very accurate of the real thing.

I'm not sure I'll make any other cross section model of anything else. Most structures are, well, ... dull to watch. And my motivation is pretty low right now. Actually, I must admit that my general enthusiasm toward Celestia is decreasing, considering all the uncorrected bugs and the low number of properly working new features since a whole year...

You might be able to do something neat with rotating cloud layers.

Fenerit · Post #122by **Fenerit** » 01.05.2007, 01:53

Well doing Tech2000, but Cham has reason about the strata of gas giants; can your 3d modeller assign a trasparency level to the spheres with or without the break so that it shows the beneath ricoursively? That is: the surface sphere that plus transparent and the "core" minus; all the spheres with the respective colors by 3d modeller. Even though we will see the space, ultimately of gas we speaking! It's only an idea that I can't develop because I'm busy with some specific cross-sections; but if it work, we could be apply to another addon that shows the Earth's atmosphere layers.

Another metod is that of buggs_moran of the clouds mapped upon the spheres completely transparents where the clouds textures are transparents in percentage as said above; because if you attempt to map a semi-transparent sphere, the result is wrong: a gray sphere appear, wether you use an alpha .PNG or a .DDS DTX5

tech2000 · Post #123by **tech2000** » 01.05.2007, 02:44

Cham:

Cham wrote:tech2000,

this is a nice pict ! Is it a real model in Celestia ?

I really have no idea how the image was made. Here is the site where I found the image: http://www.solarviews.com/cap/sat/satint.htm

However, in the case of Jupiter and Saturn, there is no sharp layers inside, and only a continuous transition from gazeous to liquid and solid. So I don't think a model like this one would be very accurate of the real thing.

Okay, I am not able to judge that but you have created other gorgeuos interiors of planet and moons. :wink:

I'm not sure I'll make any other cross section model of anything else. Most structures are, well, ... dull to watch. And my motivation is pretty low right now.

To bad you lack motivation, you give us beautiful addons and we may hopefully have that most wanted layer to add this addon to.. :roll:

Actually, I must admit that my general enthusiasm toward Celestia is decreasing, considering all the uncorrected bugs and the low number of properly working new features since a whole year...

I know the frustration, but have a little faith. Let's hope for an early release of pre3 atleast, which by the way is way overdue.

Best regards,
Anders

Fenerit · Post #124by **Fenerit** » 01.05.2007, 05:32

Tech2000, look at these pictures, for an hint, expecially at the first, for what concern the transparency.

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... EF0280.jpg

http://shutter11.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... +G0280.jpg

I've leaved the atmosphere with the purpose of explain the concept, because when removed by erasing the relevant strings in the .SSC file, all the rest it will be invisible (except the terrain inside, that I've developed for other purpose). The second image show a transparency water terrain where you can see a few of aquatic plants as example of the transparency level; which once applied to the sphere of Saturn could make a certain effect. The first image try to see it with a rotating texture clouds as quoted by buggs_moran, and you will obtain a "supernova" effect, expecially when more spheres constitutes the layers of the object.

Note that when I try to texturize the "cut" side of the cross-section meanwhile
the rest remain transparent, all the cross-section become gray. It seem to me impossible to work on the model out of the 3d modeller's color; but this is only due to the semi-transparent effect of the water, since when transparency is 0 or 1 the things works well. I think that what happen in the first image could be applied at an eventual addon showing the atmosphere layers of the Earth (in scale) if only with the aid of the haze effect.

buggs_moran · Post #125by **buggs_moran** » 01.05.2007, 10:18

Based on the under ice ocean technique, couldn't something like this be accomplished Cham?

from http://www.planetsalive.com/?planet=Jupiter&tab=B

with a close up

Aphyle2007 · Post #126by **Aphyle2007** » 01.05.2007, 14:32

Fenerit wrote:Tech2000, look at these pictures, for an hint, expecially at the first, for what concern the transparency.

http://shutter08.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... EF0280.jpg

Fenerit,

I'm going to prevail upon one of my students to make a screencapture or two for your subduction zone diagram. They have been working on an instructional utility for Island Arc systems in Visual Basic, showing everything with no vertical exaggeration and to proper scale. It shows the subduction zone, trench, and volcanoes to scale, and has overlays for isotherms, earthquake foci, metamorphic facies, and zones of magma generation. We are in final exams this week, so I will try to catch him before he gets away.

Aphyle2007

Fenerit · Post #127by **Fenerit** » 01.05.2007, 23:35

I shall be very happy to working on yours data; try to catch him also on the beach!

Cham · Post #128by **Cham** » 04.05.2007, 23:43

Funny. There's a news about Mercury's interior on NASA's site :

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-050

Just on the right time to bring back some life here ! ;-)

Fenerit · Post #129by **Fenerit** » 07.05.2007, 13:29

The molten outer-core radius seem about the 2/3 of the planet. Is this a supposition yet? No further data here.

tech2000 · Post #130by **tech2000** » 07.05.2007, 14:57

Cham wrote:Funny. There's a news about Mercury's interior on NASA's site :

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-050

Just on the right time to bring back some life here !

Cham,
it sure is the right time for that info, do you have an addon planned for Mercury's interior too?

I also have a small suggestion for a little change in your Earth's interior addon Cham.
I think it will be easier to see where Gutenberg discontinuity & Mohorovi?

buggs_moran · Post #131by **buggs_moran** » 11.05.2007, 17:44

Cham wrote:Funny. There's a news about Mercury's interior on NASA's site :

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-050

Just on the right time to bring back some life here !

Nice representation from the NSF (by Nicole Rager Fuller)

LINK to larger http://www.nsf.gov/news/mmg/media/images/mercury1_h.jpg

s3nn0c · Post #132by **s3nn0c** » 24.05.2007, 14:18

Cham,

In case you want to make more of these wonderful addons... I've found a few interesting links about interior of Sun. I hope they will be useful for you:

http://www.astro.physik.uni-goettingen. ... sonne.html
http://universe-review.ca/R07-01-Sun.htm
http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/classroo ... layers.gif
http://www.physast.uga.edu/~rls/1020/ch15/15-09.jpg

Maybe you could make a separate, "interior" version of Solar System? Just an idea...

And there are many other methods to visualize internal structures of celestial objects, like these below:

neutron stars

http://heasarc.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/obj ... ucture.gif

structure comparison

http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/NatSci10 ... anplan.jpg

exoplanets

http://www.oklo.org/wp-content/images/69830dstruct.jpg

Fenerit · Post #133by **Fenerit** » 29.05.2007, 23:37

Hi, all. I've need of some suggestions. I'm working on a cross-section model of the Earth's upper-mantle as below:

http://shutter07.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... p40280.jpg

where only the vertical dimension is in scale, the rest is just indicative, spanning from Ande's subduction to Atlantic's hot spots. Being it half-transparent altogether and being it completly toggleable, I'm thinking of using all the model's sides as well as the inside for showing much more data to be possible; if only through the system developed by Cham about the Europa's interior: that is of the billboards. The question is: what side do you prefer in doing this: better having they quickly in front of the screen as Celestia will show, or perhaps is better that to be on the opposite's one and when they'll serve people will turn the model? It seem a stupid question, but on the contrary it will help me in putting back the ideas, since at present my mind is idle and my body is rest at a thing like this:

http://shutter07.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... x50280.jpg

in which to collect and to relate the data in my hands. (the texts will be in 3d, not on textures, with the exception of the billboards, whose content will be at discretion of each one on the basis of the future researches, changeable by replacing the relevant textures).

Note: that species of "potatoes" intends simulate the near-liquid area in the LVZ, in an impetus of fulfilment of both the supporters of the mixed structures of the mantle and of the layered structure's ones. The cone is an hot spot. Particulars of the vulcanism, subduction's trench and of the hot spot will be add later, at model's end, after yours aswers. Another one: since a CELX that should split the screen among the global structure and it's pieces could be useful for educational purposes, how do they are better, that they comes alive separately or altogether with this model as particulary of particulary? Although these questions can be bother someone, the aswers are importants for me; therefore, thanks in advance.

Fenerit · Post #134by **Fenerit** » 01.06.2007, 02:14

Aphyle2007, I'm unable to find the appropriate temperatures for these deepths:

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... dR0280.jpg

I have already a lot of temperatures here and there throughout the interior, but anyone relate with the U_M's deepths; how you can see, the appendix table of the Anderson's book unusually lack just of these. Some surveys that I've made in this days in the web, has failed.
If you hold the temperatures or you can tell me where I can find what I need, my greetings will be tremendous. I can go further, but without the temperatures seem that the model lacking of something.

Aphyle2007 · Post #135by **Aphyle2007** » 04.06.2007, 01:53

Fenerit wrote:Aphyle2007, I'm unable to find the appropriate temperatures for these deepths:

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... dR0280.jpg

I have already a lot of temperatures here and there throughout the interior, but anyone relate with the U_M's deepths; how you can see, the appendix table of the Anderson's book unusually lack just of these. Some surveys that I've made in this days in the web, has failed.
If you hold the temperatures or you can tell me where I can find what I need, my greetings will be tremendous. I can go further, but without the temperatures seem that the model lacking of something.

Fenerit,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you - I've had a couple of high profile meetings at work, coupled with an extensive annual report.

My student, who promised to give me stills before he left for the summer, let me down. I'll keep trying, though, as he has not graduated yet, and if he hopes to...well, he can't forget forever!

The trickiest part is attempting to map the isotherms in subduction zones, as the descending slab is considerably colder than the mantle materiel into which it is descending. So simple temperature with depth models start to break down quickly. We do have these data, but the isobar data is even harder to come by.

On another note, the partial melt that forms on and in the subducting slab and rises does so in a dendritic pattern, like leaf veins. The magma does not move laterally until it reaches the base of the continental crust, forming pods and starting to partially melt the granitic material of the continent.

Nevertheless, let me try to get my hands on the isotherms. It may have to be a crude scan for now.

Aphyle2007

Aphyle2007 · Post #136by **Aphyle2007** » 04.06.2007, 14:01

Fenerit wrote:Aphyle2007, I'm unable to find the appropriate temperatures for these deepths:

http://shutter06.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... dR0280.jpg

I have already a lot of temperatures here and there throughout the interior, but anyone relate with the U_M's deepths; how you can see, the appendix table of the Anderson's book unusually lack just of these. Some surveys that I've made in this days in the web, has failed.
If you hold the temperatures or you can tell me where I can find what I need, my greetings will be tremendous. I can go further, but without the temperatures seem that the model lacking of something.

Fenerit,

This is not the exact diagram that I had in mind, but try this link:

http://www.geol.lsu.edu/henry/Geology30 ... eModel.jpg

I'll keep after my student for the exact reference!

Cheers!

Fenerit · Post #137by **Fenerit** » 06.06.2007, 00:59

I estrude this. Thanks a lot.

Aphyle2007 · Post #138by **Aphyle2007** » 06.06.2007, 13:15

Fenerit wrote:I estrude this.

"estrude"???

Fenerit · Post #139by **Fenerit** » 09.06.2007, 01:42

I see yours only now, sorry. "estrude" mean: "make a 3d model from the image" by the "estrusion" tool of a 3d program. Sorry, I've made a verb of what only now I'm aware that no exist in english language. I apologize for this.

Aphyle2007 · Post #140by **Aphyle2007** » 09.06.2007, 03:22

Fenerit wrote:I see yours only now, sorry. "estrude" mean: "make a 3d model from the image" by the "estrusion" tool of a 3d program. Sorry, I've made a verb of what only now I'm aware that no exist in english language. I apologize for this.

No apologies are necessary. Your definition is what I inferred it to mean - I just wanted to be sure!