My wishes list for Celestia 1.5

The place to discuss creating, porting and modifying Celestia's source code.
ElChristou
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Post #21by ElChristou » 13.12.2006, 23:26

Cham wrote:6- Star textures. Since the latest version of Celestia, stars lost their "individuality". By default, they are using only one texture. Stars are then very dull to watch. The atmosphere's color doesn't even match that texture in many cases. In some previous version, stars were using four base textures (astar, bstar, gstar and mstar). I want those textures to be back, without having to add a custom texture to all the stars in the database.

7- A scripts menu. Lets remove the "D" binding to the demo, so we could use it for another thing. Lets add a menu called "scripts", associated to a "scripts" folder inside the CelestiaRessources directory. All scripts located in that folder would be listed in the scripts menu. The usual Demo could be the first script in this menu, separated from the others with a separator.


Agree with those points in particular; I don't remember why the stars textures have been removed but without having the info I suppose they were quite more interesting than a single texture.

I think I ask Dirkpitt for the exact same script menu a few months ago... what a coincidence! :)
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Post #22by Cham » 14.12.2006, 18:42

There's another feature I would like very much in Celestia :

9- EllipticalOrbit precession. Two new SSC commands : "EllipticalOrbitPrecessionRate" and "EllipticalOrbitPrecessionAxis [x x x ]". By default, the axis [0 0 0] should be perpendicular to the orbital plane.

This could be used to simulate Mercury's perihelion advance (general relativity effect), if it isn't already included in the custom orbit, and it could be usefull to simulate other effects (example : some pulsars binaries are showing an extremelly strong orbital precession as predicted by general relativity). We could also simulate the Lense-Thirring effect on satellites, etc...

One problem with this suggestion is the orbit rendering. It will have to move (rotate) while the object is moving along the orbital path. But if the precession rate is low, it will be hard to see and compare with the standard orbit (without precession).
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Post #23by chris » 15.12.2006, 04:17

Cham wrote:After all the recent developments on Celestia 1.5.0, here's an update to my "wish list". In random order :

1- Better date and time format in upper-right corner. The date and time are actually hard to read and a bit cryptic. The problem is the hour. It's too close from the date and I think it should be printed BELOW the date.

I agree that it would be good to have more space between the time and date. It's a very easy fix. I don't want to have them on separate lines though.

2- More "classes" of objects : three or more custom classes that could be activated with a keyboard shortcut (using numbers with a modifier key ?), especially to use coordinate grids on the fly (graticules) or other informational "layers" (magnetic field lines, for example). We need graticules to help the user, when it comes to orientation in space.

Something like this a very good idea, but it needs to be fleshed out more. I think that custom classes could be added for 1.5.1.

3- More info in the upper-left corner (Ultraverbose mode ?) : kilopsc and Megapsc distances also in LY. SemiMajorAxis and revolution period, if relevant for the selected object. RA and DEC as standard (and not just with LUA)

I'm not sure if RA and Dec belong in the standard interface--it's perhaps too Earth-centric for Celestia. As for orbital parameters . . . maybe.

4- Periodic motions with .xyz files, declared in SSC file with a command like "PeriodicMotion true". Of course, that option should be set to false by default.

It would be good to understand how people want to use this feature.

5- The ability to change the Precession axis. Adding a command line like "PrecessionAxis [x y z]" after the usual command "PrecessionRate". Of course, values by default should be [0 0 0] (present state of the precession axis).

I haven't decided yet if this is best done through reference frames or by adding a new parameter for PrecessingRotation. I also have doubts that specifying precession axis directly is ideal.

6- Star textures. Since the latest version of Celestia, stars lost their "individuality". By default, they are using only one texture. Stars are then very dull to watch. The atmosphere's color doesn't even match that texture in many cases. In some previous version, stars were using four base textures (astar, bstar, gstar and mstar). I want those textures to be back, without having to add a custom texture to all the stars in the database.

I don't think those old star textures looked good at all. What would you replace them with?

7- A scripts menu. Lets remove the "D" binding to the demo, so we could use it for another thing. Lets add a menu called "scripts", associated to a "scripts" folder inside the CelestiaRessources directory. All scripts located in that folder would be listed in the scripts menu. The usual Demo could be the first script in this menu, separated from the others with a separator.

I agree that a scripts menu would be helpful--it should be added to 1.5.1.

8- Better celestial grid. The celestial grid has been updated (more graduations) for 1.5.0. But it's still hard to see the coordinate numbers, since they are placed on two circles only. Could it be possible to duplicate those numbers, and set in red the reference circles ?


I could duplicate the numbers--that would be a good quick fix for 1.5.0. In future versions, I want to do a lot more with the grids. I'd like to show both equatorial and ecliptic grids, with the option to show the ecliptic line. It might also be nice to show the celestial sphere for planets other than the Earth.

--Chris

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Post #24by Cham » 15.12.2006, 04:32

Chris,

about #6, I think that any colorised textures matching the star's atmosphere would be better than a standard white texture with color atmospheres like what we have in the current version. The problem is that all the stars now looks the same : white spheres with a color atmosphere. It looks totally unrealistic.

About #5, it would be much easier for the user to define a PrecessionAxis than using a complex (almost unusable) referenceFrame. PrecessionAxis seems to be very natural to me, with values [0 0 0] defined as the perpendicular to the orbital plane of the object.

About #4 (periodic motion), the idea is to create an accretion disk of matter falling dynamically on the central object, or to create a bridge of hot matter between two stars on a close orbit.
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Post #25by selden » 20.12.2006, 13:22

Another example where a periodic trajectory would be useful would be for controlling the doors on an observatory which open at sundown and close at sunrise.
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Post #26by t00fri » 20.12.2006, 18:43

chris wrote:...
8- Better celestial grid. The celestial grid has been updated (more graduations) for 1.5.0. But it's still hard to see the coordinate numbers, since they are placed on two circles only. Could it be possible to duplicate those numbers, and set in red the reference circles ?

I could duplicate the numbers--that would be a good quick fix for 1.5.0. In future versions, I want to do a lot more with the grids. I'd like to show both equatorial and ecliptic grids, with the option to show the ecliptic line. It might also be nice to show the celestial sphere for planets other than the Earth.

--Chris


It's about 3 years ago that I proposed already a very flexible and general grid setup in the dev list, like I coded it with Elwood Downey a long time ago in XEphem. First, the grids should adapt to the actual frame of reference (equatorial, altazimuth, ecliptic...) and NOTABLY the grid spacing should VARY automatically depending on the FOV. Right now, for small FOV, the grid just becomes unusable, since it tends to move out of the canvas due to the fixed grid spacings!

Bye Fridger
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Post #27by Cham » 20.12.2006, 19:11

t00fri wrote:It's about 3 years ago that I proposed already a very flexible and general grid setup in the dev list, like I coded it with Elwood Downey a long time ago in XEphem. First, the grids should adapt to the actual frame of reference (equatorial, altazimuth, ecliptic...) and NOTABLY the grid spacing should VARY automatically depending on the FOV. Right now, for small FOV, the grid just becomes unusable, since it tends to move out of the canvas due to the fixed grid spacings!


I absolutely agree ! The grid should adapt to the FOV, with numbers clearly showing whatever the observer's orientation in space.
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Post #28by rthorvald » 20.12.2006, 21:54

chris wrote:
2- More "classes" of objects : three or more custom classes that could be activated with a keyboard shortcut (using numbers with a modifier key ?), especially to use coordinate grids on the fly (graticules) or other informational "layers" (magnetic field lines, for example). We need graticules to help the user, when it comes to orientation in space.
Something like this a very good idea, but it needs to be fleshed out more. I think that custom classes could be added for 1.5.1.

I would at least like to have a class to put "placeholder" objects (not the invisible tag). For example, i use several different SSC entries to simulate changes to an object over time. A good example of this is to define a planet several times to change the cloudmap. All those planets show up in the browser, and also as orbit lines. It would be good to hide the extra entries, to make for a less cluttered screen.

chris wrote:
4- Periodic motions with .xyz files, declared in SSC file with a command like "PeriodicMotion true". Of course, that option should be set to false by default.
It would be good to understand how people want to use this feature.


To be able to change an ellipticalorbit into a sampledorbit and back again, i suppose. That would make it easier to simulate certain interplanetary missions. Just imagine experiencing the Apollo 11 mission from launch to touchdown on the moon and back again via one single CelUrl...

All in all, i like everything on Cham??s list. But don??t let it delay 1.5...

- rthorvald
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Post #29by symaski62 » 21.12.2006, 01:33

rthorvald wrote:
chris wrote:
4- Periodic motions with .xyz files, declared in SSC file with a command like "PeriodicMotion true". Of course, that option should be set to false by default.
It would be good to understand how people want to use this feature.

To be able to change an ellipticalorbit into a sampledorbit and back again, i suppose. That would make it easier to simulate certain interplanetary missions. Just imagine experiencing the Apollo 11 mission from launch to touchdown on the moon and back again via one single CelUrl...

All in all, i like everything on Cham??s list. But don??t let it delay 1.5...

- rthorvald


http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 2236#82236

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Post #30by chris » 21.12.2006, 10:05

t00fri wrote:It's about 3 years ago that I proposed already a very flexible and general grid setup in the dev list, like I coded it with Elwood Downey a long time ago in XEphem. First, the grids should adapt to the actual frame of reference (equatorial, altazimuth, ecliptic...) and NOTABLY the grid spacing should VARY automatically depending on the FOV. Right now, for small FOV, the grid just becomes unusable, since it tends to move out of the canvas due to the fixed grid spacings!


Yes, variable spacing would be useful. Another helpful improvement for grids would be to show the values for each line anchored at the point where grid circles intercept the view rectangle.

Fridger, do you have a link to your archived message on this topic?

--Chris

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Post #31by ElChristou » 21.12.2006, 12:31

chris wrote:
Cham wrote:7- A scripts menu. Lets remove the "D" binding to the demo, so we could use it for another thing. Lets add a menu called "scripts", associated to a "scripts" folder inside the CelestiaRessources directory. All scripts located in that folder would be listed in the scripts menu. The usual Demo could be the first script in this menu, separated from the others with a separator.

I agree that a scripts menu would be helpful--it should be added to 1.5.1.



What about a script browser? Celestia would scan the script folder and shows not only what scripts are available but also a small description of what it does (which should be writen in a way or another in the header of the script for example). It could even be merdged with the star browser in a unique window call "browsers" with several tabs (stars, eclipses, scripts)
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Post #32by t00fri » 21.12.2006, 20:55

chris wrote:
t00fri wrote:It's about 3 years ago that I proposed already a very flexible and general grid setup in the dev list, like I coded it with Elwood Downey a long time ago in XEphem. First, the grids should adapt to the actual frame of reference (equatorial, altazimuth, ecliptic...) and NOTABLY the grid spacing should VARY automatically depending on the FOV. Right now, for small FOV, the grid just becomes unusable, since it tends to move out of the canvas due to the fixed grid spacings!

Yes, variable spacing would be useful. Another helpful improvement for grids would be to show the values for each line anchored at the point where grid circles intercept the view rectangle.

Fridger, do you have a link to your archived message on this topic?

--Chris

Certainly, I tend to store ALL Celestia mail ;-)

Here it is:

Subject: Re: [Celestia-developers] Features for 1.2.6
Date: 01/15/03 22:18 (almost 4 years ago!)

-------------------------------------------------------
t00fri wrote:
Chris wrote:. . . Fridger and Clint--I'd like to hear your interests and
priorities too, so I can compile a complete list.

A number of my plans for 1.2.6 I have sent around partly several times already, but they apparently fell "under the table";

so here we go again;-):
...
c) /Time-setting/ optionally including /light travel time/ from observer to selection, very handy for precise "rare or delicate event display" (e.g. mutual Galilean events, Saturn moons, Uranus' moons...)

d) 2 key easy (forward-backward) maneuvering by switching between coordinate systems and then moving in parallel to the respective coordinate axes:

e.g. Alt-Azimuth: <= => azimuth; up, down: altitude
Equatorial: <= => RA; ; up, down: declination
Object Long-Lat : ...
Ecliptical: ...

e) RA, Dec (Alt-Az, lat-long),.../cursor readouts/; some of the present info in upper left corner of the display should go into Info popups (a la KDE-interface, pushing right mouse button, XEphem fans will like it;-))

f) Improved grids with subdivisions and orientation auto-adapting to FoV and to chosen coordinate system!

------------------------------------------------------

c) I have coded long ago (light travel delay) ;-)

d) ... f) is what I was referring to. I made several grid related proposals in the course of time, but I'm too lazy to dig them all out ;-) . Some were much more detailed.

Bye Fridger
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Post #33by Teemu78 » 09.03.2007, 18:19

Sorry if I am putting my wishes in a wrong post but thought that there is no sense to start a new topic on the same matter which is wishes....so here is mine:

This one might be hard to make but anyway my wish is that i could go out from our galaxy and travel so far away that I could see the large scale of the universe....you know, just as they show it in the "millennium simulation"

This is what I mean...download the slow flyby video (120mb) and see how beautyful it is....wow man, it was such a deep experience for me

http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/
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Post #34by selden » 09.03.2007, 18:58

You already can.

Celestia includes the locations of 10,000 relatively nearby galaxies.

Addons are available which provide the locations of ~200,000 galaxies from the 2df and Sloan surveys.
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Post #35by t00fri » 09.03.2007, 19:12

Teemu78 wrote:Sorry if I am putting my wishes in a wrong post but thought that there is no sense to start a new topic on the same matter which is wishes....so here is mine:

This one might be hard to make but anyway my wish is that i could go out from our galaxy and travel so far away that I could see the large scale of the universe....you know, just as they show it in the "millennium simulation"

This is what I mean...download the slow flyby video (120mb) and see how beautyful it is....wow man, it was such a deep experience for me

http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/



I have been repeatedly advocating such a "cosmo-Celestia mode" since years but without active support from the other developers, notably Chris.

As soon as spare time and other boundary conditions match, I will fork off and tackle this exciting project myself, hopefully with some help from others.

Meanwhile, I thought a lot about how one can fill the areas of lacking SDSS and 2dFGRS data for the large-scale structure. Since quite a while, I am also considering the exciting Millenium simulation by the "Virgo Consortium", a collaboration of British, German, Canadian and US astrophysicists, as a VERY promising option! The generation of the millenium simulation at MPA-Garching/Germany required an incredible amount of computer time and storage resources.

But there are forthcoming /catalogs/ of the simulated large-scale filiament "data" that one may then visualize just like catalogs of galaxies...

Another crucial feature of 'cosmo-Celestia' will be a "conformal mapping" of the distances involved. This essentially amounts to

distance => log(distance) mapping

with the crucial (conformal) constraint that all angles are to remain undistorted. This way, one may start at one's backyard, pass the planets, our galaxy, many distant galaxies, dive through the filiaments of large scale structure right to where the Universe becomes un-transparent for light (cosmic microwave border), i.e. when the Universe was just 380000 years old!

++++++++++++++++++
The challenges of scientific visualization of this exciting and most topical field of modern cosmology are becoming irresistible for me!
++++++++++++++++++

Being a particle physicist myself, I am looking forward to the pending start of the gigantic LHC collider at CERN/Geneva that will provide most probably crucial complementary information about the nature of dark matter. Given my expertise in particle physics and cosmology, as well as 5 years experience of Celestia development, I will strive to visualize the latest scientific findings about the "cosmic web" and it's particle physics origin in such a "cosmo-Celestia" project.

I am convinced that the time is ready for exploring this most exciting frontier of the known Universe by 3d computer visualization!


Bye Fridger
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Post #36by ElChristou » 09.03.2007, 21:27

t00fri wrote:
Teemu78 wrote:Sorry if I am putting my wishes in a wrong post but thought that there is no sense to start a new topic on the same matter which is wishes....so here is mine:

This one might be hard to make but anyway my wish is that i could go out from our galaxy and travel so far away that I could see the large scale of the universe....you know, just as they show it in the "millennium simulation"

This is what I mean...download the slow flyby video (120mb) and see how beautyful it is....wow man, it was such a deep experience for me

http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/


I have been repeatedly advocating such a "cosmo-Celestia mode" since years but without active support from the other developers, notably Chris.

As soon as spare time and other boundary conditions match, I will fork off and tackle this exciting project myself, hopefully with some help from others.

Meanwhile, I thought a lot about how one can fill the areas of lacking SDSS and 2dFGRS data for the large-scale structure. Since quite a while, I am also considering the exciting Millenium simulation by the "Virgo Consortium", a collaboration of British, German, Canadian and US astrophysicists, as a VERY promising option! The generation of the millenium simulation at MPA-Garching/Germany required an incredible amount of computer time and storage resources.

But there are forthcoming /catalogs/ of the simulated large-scale filiament "data" that one may then visualize just like catalogs of galaxies...

Another crucial feature of 'cosmo-Celestia' will be a "conformal mapping" of the distances involved. This essentially amounts to

distance => log(distance) mapping

with the crucial (conformal) constraint that all angles are to remain undistorted. This way, one may start at one's backyard, pass the planets, our galaxy, many distant galaxies, dive through the filiaments of large scale structure right to where the Universe becomes un-transparent for light (cosmic microwave border), i.e. when the Universe was just 380000 years old!

++++++++++++++++++
The challenges of scientific visualization of this exciting and most topical field of modern cosmology are becoming irresistible for me!
++++++++++++++++++

Being a particle physicist myself, I am looking forward to the pending start of the gigantic LHC collider at CERN/Geneva that will provide most probably crucial complementary information about the nature of dark matter. Given my expertise in particle physics and cosmology, as well as 5 years experience of Celestia development, I will strive to visualize the latest scientific findings about the "cosmic web" and it's particle physics origin in such a "cosmo-Celestia" project.

I am convinced that the time is ready for exploring this most exciting frontier of the known Universe by 3d computer visualization!


Bye Fridger


8O what an exiting program!! can't wait the next few months!!
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Post #37by Tuefish » 17.03.2007, 03:48

Ctrl V and mouse support for the enter search feature.
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Post #38by Carlytos » 18.03.2007, 19:13

Well... what do you think about time to realease celestia 1.5.0 ? A few weeks ? a Few months ?
I can't wait ...


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