Eros

[selden]

In general, you can find out if your card supports non-power-of-two by opening Celestia's Help menu and selecting "OpenGL Info..."
The supported options are in alphabetical order.

It'll be listed as
GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two

[phoenix]

Just try it. If your card doesn't support non-power-of-two, then the texture won't display. Eros will have a white surface.

well fightspit is right, it's not supported by my card but i still see eros and the texture but it's not really bumpy.

i've tried all normal-maps provided by chris and see absolutely no change in eros but it still looks really cool.

[Cham]

Chris,

will you include this new eros in the next official distribution of Celestia ? If yes, which version (resolution) ?

[chris]

Chris,

will you include this new eros in the next official distribution of Celestia ? If yes, which version (resolution) ?

I will include an updated version in the official distribution. However, size restrictions mean that I'll probably have to use just a 1k normal map and the 2 degree mesh. We'll see . . . We desperately need a standard high res package with better models and meshes.

--Chris

[Cham]

We desperately need a standard high res package with better models and meshes.

--Chris

Absolutly ! I don't think that doubling the official package size will matter so much today. It needs much better textures too, especially for the planets and moons.

[t00fri]

Since about four years I tend to compare Celestia with it's default texture package to a

high-end HiFi set, endowed with bad loudspeakers.

Bye Fridger

[phoenix]

However, size restrictions mean . . .

what do you mean by size restrictions... on sourceforge?
I thought there were none regarding file-releases.

[ElChristou]

...We desperately need a standard high res package with better models and meshes...

Agree.

This as been already proposed, so as soon as you decide where to host this standard high res package (Shatters? downloadable on the official site?) and the frame for the files (size, format, etc...) we (all interested people) can begin to work on it.

[Paolo]

I just got one more benchmark by Runar as to the performance of our new nmtools (see post above this one):

Runar, on his 1.8 GHz iMac G5 => 45 min
==================
To do all 6 levels of highly optimized 1k x 1k normalmap VT tiles, corresponding to a 64K monster normalmap, directly from the published 85K, 16bit integer srtm_ramp2.world.86400x43200.bin elevation map!

Me, on my 3.2 Ghz/3GB Ram,PC => 15-20 min
==================================
Same thing, but including the conversion of the PPM format tiles into PNG. My benchmark is ~ the same for Win32 and Linux.

Bye Fridger

It seems to me that this kind of huge datasets are containing enough elevation data to allow the implementation of realistic 3D landscapes for planets and bodies. It should be interesting to make a test with a vertex shader.

Kind regards.

[Cham]

Chris,

there are some problems with the high resolution model of Eros :

1- I'm not sure the model is properly oriented. Orientation isn't the same as the other lower resolution versions.

2- I'm using the standatd texture on it (or else, it's all white without any texture), and the model is subtly "pulsating" or "blinking" in color while I move around. I think there isn't any texture coordinates to this model. If true, then how can I have the same color/aspect as in your pictures (previous page) ? Without the texture, the model is all white.

3- The model's CMOD file is very big (about 24 MB) and it's a binary format. I used the CMODTool to convert it to another binary version, and it gave me a 14 MB CMOD file. So what's going on here ?

4- I noticed a weird hole at the poles, on the model. It's small, but the hole is very deep and goes to the center of the model !



5- I'm unable to use the normal map texture with any of the Eros models. I tried the 2048 X 1024 erosnm with all versions of the model. Of course, I'm using the latest version of CVS, and OpenGL 2 is enabled. But no normalmap bumps. Actually, I'm unable to see any bumps on any asteroid. NormalMap isn't working with models. Why ?

[chris]

Chris,

there are some problems with the high resolution model of Eros :

1- I'm not sure the model is properly oriented. Orientation isn't the same as the other lower resolution versions.

I'm wondering if you have the right model . . . There were some early versions that were not correctly oriented, but I know that the one I used in my demo for the ESA presentation was oriented correctly. Do you remember where you downloaded the model that you have?

2- I'm using the standatd texture on it (or else, it's all white without any texture), and the model is subtly "pulsating" or "blinking" in color while I move around. I think there isn't any texture coordinates to this model. If true, then how can I have the same color/aspect as in your pictures (previous page) ? Without the texture, the model is all white.

If there aren't texture coordinates, you can't use a normal map. It's possible that what you have is the extremely high resolution version with no normal map (since all the details is provided by the geometry.)

3- The model's CMOD file is very big (about 24 MB) and it's a binary format. I used the CMODTool to convert it to another binary version, and it gave me a 14 MB CMOD file. So what's going on here ?

Perhaps it's getting converted from triangle lists to strips?

4- I noticed a weird hole at the poles, on the model. It's small, but the hole is very deep and goes to the center of the model !

That's a glitch in the model.

5- I'm unable to use the normal map texture with any of the Eros models. I tried the 2048 X 1024 erosnm with all versions of the model. Of course, I'm using the latest version of CVS, and OpenGL 2 is enabled. But no normalmap bumps. Actually, I'm unable to see any bumps on any asteroid. NormalMap isn't working with models. Why ?

You must have a version of the mesh that doesn't have tangents for normal mapping.

--Chris

[Cham]

Chris,

please, could you give a download link with the latest best version of the model, with everything included ? I mean base texture, normalmap and more specifically a proper CMOD file of the highest resolution ?

I've downloaded the highest resolution from this thread (link on the previous page), where you wrote :

"You can grab a zip file with the mesh and model from http://www.celestiaproject.net/~claurel/celestia/asteroids "

That's the model which seems to have some problems.

I also tried all other Eros models in this thread, and none can show the normal bumps !

[chris]

5- I'm unable to use the normal map texture with any of the Eros models. I tried the 2048 X 1024 erosnm with all versions of the model. Of course, I'm using the latest version of CVS, and OpenGL 2 is enabled. But no normalmap bumps. Actually, I'm unable to see any bumps on any asteroid. NormalMap isn't working with models. Why ?

Well, I verified that at least the normal map works with this cmod:
http://www.celestiaproject.net/~claurel/celest ... s-360.cmod

I think I applied a normal map to eros-720 as well . . .

You do realize that you can't specify the normal map in the ssc file, right? It has to be in the cmod file. The material definition in eros-360.cmod is expecting to find the normal map in a file named erosnm.png.

I guess that it would be nice to have NormalMap work for models (at least those that have tangents), but I haven't gotten around to doing it and won't have time until post 1.5.0.

--Chris

[Cham]

Chris,

maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I still can't see any normalmap effect on this model (eros-360). I placed that model in the models folder, and the 2k "erosnm.png" into the textures/medres folder. There's no normalmap declaration in the ssc. I'm also using the base (default, official) texture for eros. I took one screen capture of eros with the normalmap in the medres folder and one screen capture without the normalmap in the textures folder. I then compared the two pictures, and there is NO differences at all. Normalmap isn't working. I just don't understand.

Also, the high resolution model (the one without texture coordinates) doesn't have the same orientation as the smaller models. It may even be inverted like a glove ! (I'm not sure of that, however). Can you publish another high resolution version, with the proper orientation and with texture coordinates ?

[chris]

Chris,

maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I still can't see any normalmap effect on this model (eros-360). I placed that model in the models folder, and the 2k "erosnm.png" into the textures/medres folder. There's no normalmap declaration in the ssc. I'm also using the base (default, official) texture for eros. I took one screen capture of eros with the normalmap in the medres folder and one screen capture without the normalmap in the textures folder. I then compared the two pictures, and there is NO differences at all. Normalmap isn't working. I just don't understand.

Also, the high resolution model (the one without texture coordinates) doesn't have the same orientation as the smaller models. It may even be inverted like a glove ! (I'm not sure of that, however). Can you publish another high resolution version, with the proper orientation and with texture coordinates ?

Hmm . . . it's possible that eros-1440.zip is an early version of the model. I'll try and upload a correctly oriented one.

Are you trying to use a texture in the ssc file with the model? That will override the material inside the cmod. Here's what I've got, and it's definitely working:

Code: Select all

"Eros" "Sol"
{
   Class "asteroid"
   Mesh   "eros-360.cmod"
        Color [ 1.000 0.880 0.764 ]
   Radius 16.3 # maximum semi-axis
   MeshCenter [ -1.262 0.168 -0.164 ]

   EllipticalOrbit
   {
   Epoch       2451171.0      # 1998 Dec 23 12:00UT (NEAR-Shoemaker encounter)
   Period            1.761    # average
   SemiMajorAxis     1.458261 # at epoch
   Eccentricity      0.222885 # at epoch
   Inclination      10.830143 # at epoch
   AscendingNode   304.430882 # at epoch
   ArgOfPericenter 178.613184 # at epoch
   MeanAnomaly     208.403434 # at epoch
   }

   RotationPeriod         5.270
   Obliquity             78.70
   EquatorAscendingNode 107.23
   RotationOffset       338.165

   Albedo 0.16
}


--Chris

[Cham]

HAHAA ! I'm a monkey ! (head to a wall bashing sound !)

Geez, now I feel stupid. I didn't tried THAT ! LOL
I'll try it later today, after I get back home. Thanks for that precision.

However, the big -high resolution- version of Eros needs two adjustements : textures coordinates and a proper orientation.

[Cham]

Ok, now it works. However, since there isn't any base texture used on the model, I think it's too pale in Celestia. The model needs a base texture.

And more importantly, suppose I'm building an asteroid in my modeler, exported as a 3ds model with a base texture defined (using a texture coordinates mapping in the modeler). How can I specify the normalMap to be used ?

[chris]

Ok, now it works. However, since there isn't any base texture used on the model, I think it's too pale in Celestia. The model needs a base texture.

I think that the color is about right . . . However, there are some albedo features on Eros that are noticeably missing without a base texture. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anything like an albedo map of Eros.

And more importantly, suppose I'm building an asteroid in my modeler, exported as a 3ds model with a base texture defined (using a texture coordinates mapping in the modeler). How can I specify the normalMap to be used ?

You have to hand edit the model.

I'm not happy about it either . . . I would be interested in making a tool that converts between a format that does support normal maps to cmod. What sort of normal mapping tools does your modeler support? And what formats can it export?

--Chris

[Cham]

I'm not happy about it either . . . I would be interested in making a tool that converts between a format that does support normal maps to cmod. What sort of normal mapping tools does your modeler support? And what formats can it export?

--Chris

I don't think there isn't any normalmap tools in my modeler. Of course, the modeler offer many options about transparency map, reflection map, and bump map. But nothing (AFAIK) about normal map.

I can export to .3ds, .obj, .fbx, .dxf, .stl and .sia. I really don't know what those formats are, except .3ds and .obj.

[selden]

A tutorial for generating normalmaps using Blender (a popular but complex opensource 3D modeller) is at
http://feeblemind.tuxfamily.org/dotclea ... ormal-maps

.