High resolution Celestia

[t00fri]

When a list is achieved and agreed upon, we can "complete the order" to the extent possible within the spesifications for authenticity that (someone competent) draws up.

In my post above, I naturally assumed that the content of your post is understood. I don't think anyone of us doubts that one has to proceed in this systematic manner as you have detailed.

Yet this does not at all solve the problem that when a finished texture is submitted to the pool for "refereing", it is VERY hard to find out how much image manipulation has been applied /tacitly/. It is simply not solved by writing down the "10 commandments" of authentic "texture creation"

1) Thou shalt not ...
2) Thou shalt not ...
...

10)

Because I am convinced that despite substantial talent and expertise some people don't see the need for maximum possible authenticity in this task, since they might value an artistically pleasing appearance higher.

Bye Fridger

[rthorvald]

Yet this does not at all solve the problem that when a finished texture is submitted to the pool for "refereing", it is VERY hard to find out how much image manipulation has been applied /tacitly/

You can only be certain if you produced it yourself - so what is needed is for each individual work to be documented and publicly reviewed by the author before inclusion. When the work is selected, it would also be reviewed by the group that set the criteria...

some people don't see the need for maximum possible authenticity in this task, since they might value an artistically pleasing appearance higher.

Of course - i am one of those that tend to play with textures to make them look better... As you know and recently have seen. But i would not think of presenting it as accurate! This is a small community; i don??t think anyone here would do that... So, it boils down to two things: scientific rigour in the selection process, together with trust in those that deliver according to those rules... I am positive that certain members of the community will provide merciless reality-checks underway...
A different matter of course, is that not much of the existing hi-res texture material will qualify. But that is not really important to _this_ discussion: that is where the "wish list" sticky comes in...

- rthorvald

[selden]

Perhaps the second commandment would be
"Thou shalt modify the original image only in ways that can be reproduced identically by another person."

In other words,
+ provide access (e.g. web url) to the original image
+ use only scripted modifications
+ include a copy of the script that was used
+ specify the exact versions of all of the the software that was used

[edit]
This does not necessarily prevent artistic modifications, since usually there are ways to capture manual operations as a script.
[/edit]

This also permits evaluation of the original image and of the modifications to ensure that they are appropriate.

The first commandment must be
"Thou shalt use only images which have licenses or explicit permissions which permit modified versions to be distributed freely with Celestia and provide evidence that this is the case." (e.g. the Web url of the license page of the original creator of the original image.)

[t00fri]

Perhaps the second commandment would be
"Thou shalt modify the original image only in ways that can be reproduced identically by another person."

In other words,
+ provide access (e.g. web url) to the original image
+ use only scripted modifications
+ include a copy of the script that was used
+ specify the exact versions of all of the the software that was used

Selden,

I think this looks like a very good ansatz. Obviously it's almost identical to the philosophy I have been following rigorously with my catalogs of binaries and galaxies etc. in the official distribution: namly to include the human readable PERL scripts used for processing that document ALL modifications (including typos), as applied to the /published/ data sets.

The first commandment must be
"Thou shalt use only images which have licenses or explicit permissions which permit modified versions to be distributed freely with Celestia and provide evidence that this is the case." (e.g. the Web url of the license page of the original creator of the original image.)

Certainly!

Bye Fridger

[t00fri]

...
So, it boils down to two things: scientific rigour in the selection process, together with trust in those that deliver according to those rules...

- rthorvald

Precisely: "trust in those that deliver according to those rules "...

That's why I was mentioning reliable and proven texture "crews" like the three CelestialMatters guys
I know from lots of pleasant personal collaboration with ElChristou and you how well this can work in the right team.

But since this scenario is unrealistic, a large scale anonymous "community effort" at least looks much less /transparent/, let's say

Bye Fridger

[rthorvald]

That's why I was mentioning reliable and proven texture "crews" like the three CelestialMatters guys
I know from lots of pleasant personal collaboration with ElChristou and you how well this can work in the right team.

But since this scenario is unrealistic, a large scale anonymous "community effort" at least looks much less /transparent/, let's say

Well, as i see it, this is not a project with a beginning and an end, it will have to be a continuing effort that lives alongside Celestia development. And so the contributors will not be a fixed group in the long term. That is why i suggest that this discussion must focus on establishing the procedure: if we can do that, anyone that knows how and is willing to collaborate within the rules can contribute at any time - just like in the dev team.

I doubt the effort will be large scale: i rather see a permanent open spot for the artist that has time and knowhow to pitch in. Usually, these people will come from the community, and hopefully any particular item in production will be discussed in the forums as is the case with most of the work that goes on here. Won??t that process work for this purpose, too?

- rthorvald

[t00fri]

Well, as i see it, this is not a project with a beginning and an end, it will have to be a continuing effort that lives alongside Celestia development.
...

- rthorvald

Well, it certainly should have a beginning . We simply need a good hires package to start. That's what I am concerned with in the FIRST place. For that task suitable people are needed. But I am uncertain whether they are easy to find.

Bye Fridger

[rthorvald]

Well, it certainly should have a beginning . We simply need a good hires package to start. That's what I am concerned with in the FIRST place. For that task suitable people are needed. But I am uncertain whether they are easy to find.

Having an officially sanctioned list of projects that needs to be done might inspire some... Remember also that among the few texture artists we have, some will have collected a lot of resources for projects that do not fit here, that will make it easier to start a project that will.

Also, what??s the hurry? With a project layout, i or anyone else can pick an item and start working on what we want whenever ready for it...

As for gathering the initial version of the Hi-Res package: as i mentioned earlier, it does not need to be complete. It does not matter how many holes are in it since the lo-res version already available fills them. We could have a first version with nothing else new than your Mercury map, ElChristou??s space shuttle and Jestr??s Hubble for that matter. All the rest will come with later versions.

- rthorvald

[chris]

As for gathering the initial version of the Hi-Res package: as i mentioned earlier, it does not need to be complete. It does not matter how many holes are in it since the lo-res version already available fills them. We could have a first version with nothing else new than your Mercury map, ElChristou??s space shuttle and Jestr??s Hubble for that matter. All the rest will come with later versions.

I'll contribute a detailed Eros model and normal map

--Chris

[ElChristou]

Sorry to be late... (got some over charge of work... )

Someone can make a summary of what data are available (from which mission etc)?

This could be usefull to create some models to have a complete illustration of the missions (maps + model)... (for example for Eros, it would be cool to have a high res NEAR... etc...)

[cartrite]

Someday soon I hope to get the knack of using ISIS 3 and if I do I could probably provide some up to date Hi res images.

cartrite