New ScriptImage/InfoImage/InfoText functions - DOWNLOAD !!

[Malenfant]

I think the readme file in it needs updating, it still only has whatever was done up to patch2, and the file is called patch3.

[Malenfant]

OK, got it working now... but I notice that if you set it to "Ultra verbose" mode for one target and then target another object it seems to lose that setting - if you want to see the Moon's info you have to set it to Ultra Verbose again in the options.

Is that intentional? Or should it stay on all the time (updating for each new object selected) til another option is selected?

[Vincent]

I think the readme file in it needs updating, it still only has whatever was done up to patch2, and the file is called patch3.

You're right. Since this is a test-release, it still needs the finishing touches... Anyway, every new function is explained at the beginning of the cerresponding .ssc/.cel/.celx file.

... but I notice that if you set it to "Ultra verbose" mode for one target and then target another object it seems to lose that setting - if you want to see the Moon's info you have to set it to Ultra Verbose again in the options.

Is that intentional? Or should it stay on all the time (updating for each new object selected) til another option is selected?

That's definitely intentional. That was a legitime request ElChristou sent me by e-mail. I've explained it in a previous post :

It also supplies an improvement of the InfoImage/InfoText functions : when InfoImage/InfoText are displayed and a new object is selected, the Information Text automatically switches back to 'Verbose mode' to avoid displaying Information that doesn't concern the previous selection that is still displayed on screen.

[ElChristou]

... but I notice that if you set it to "Ultra verbose" mode for one target and then target another object it seems to lose that setting - if you want to see the Moon's info you have to set it to Ultra Verbose again in the options.

Is that intentional? Or should it stay on all the time (updating for each new object selected) til another option is selected?

That's definitely intentional. That was a legitime request ElChristou sent me by e-mail. I've explained it in a previous post :

It also supplies an improvement of the InfoImage/InfoText functions : when InfoImage/InfoText are displayed and a new object is selected, the Information Text automatically switches back to 'Verbose mode' to avoid displaying Information that doesn't concern the previous selection that is still displayed on screen.

In my primal idea of running a script which could display text, images or be a more complex celx, depending on the context (selected object), I didn't take in count the way Vincent's patch was running; in this optic, the UltraVerbose mode don't exist anymore, the Infoscript replace it by displaying the infotext within the script... The problem is that I wanted to stop that script (delete images/text or stop whatever action define in the script) if the user select another object; unfortunatly for now this is not possible, the only way to stop a script is to press esc...

For now we have an hybrid version, the UltraVerbose mode is always here because Vincent loves it very much , and in // we have the infoscript availble; users should test and give some feedback to see what direction all this should take.

[Vincent]

For now we have an hybrid version, the UltraVerbose mode is always here because Vincent loves it very much , and in // we have the infoscript availble; users should test and give some feedback to see what direction all this should take.

Oh, yes, I do love it very much !
More seriously, I like the idea user can simply have acces to more information by pressing a key... The InfoScript function is more complex and time consuming, since it launches a script...
That's why I think we should keep both of them.

users should test and give some feedback to see what direction all this should take.

Good suggestion !

[Malenfant]

It also supplies an improvement of the InfoImage/InfoText functions : when InfoImage/InfoText are displayed and a new object is selected, the Information Text automatically switches back to 'Verbose mode' to avoid displaying Information that doesn't concern the previous selection that is still displayed on screen.

Hm, but wouldn't the point be to do something like this?:

1) select Target#1.
2) Select Ultraverbose mode to show Target#1 data.
3) select Target#2.
4) Ultraverbose information on screen is automatically updated to show data for Target#2.
5) Go to Target#2 if you like, ultraverbose info remains on screen until Target#2 is unselected.


I'm not entirely sure what the difference between "Infoscript" and "Ultraverbose" mode is, but I'm most interested in being able to expand informational text within Celestia without having to run scripts. The Ultraverbose option seems to allow me to do that, since it's just a matter of editing ssc files to include the expanded text.

[Cham]

It also supplies an improvement of the InfoImage/InfoText functions : when InfoImage/InfoText are displayed and a new object is selected, the Information Text automatically switches back to 'Verbose mode' to avoid displaying Information that doesn't concern the previous selection that is still displayed on screen.

Hm, but wouldn't the point be to do something like this?:

1) select Target#1.
2) Select Ultraverbose mode to show Target#1 data.
3) select Target#2.
4) Ultraverbose information on screen is automatically updated to show data for Target#2.
5) Go to Target#2 if you like, ultraverbose info remains on screen until Target#2 is unselected.


I'm not entirely sure what the difference between "Infoscript" and "Ultraverbose" mode is, but I'm most interested in being able to expand informational text within Celestia without having to run scripts. The Ultraverbose option seems to allow me to do that, since it's just a matter of editing ssc files to include the expanded text.

I totally agree with this. That's what Celestia needs : more info on selected objects (mass, density, temperature, chemical composition, etc..., also pictures of the selected planet surface, ...). Not just by running scripts only.

[Vincent]

Hm, but wouldn't the point be to do something like this?:

1) select Target#1.
2) Select Ultraverbose mode to show Target#1 data.
3) select Target#2.
4) Ultraverbose information on screen is automatically updated to show data for Target#2.
5) Go to Target#2 if you like, ultraverbose info remains on screen until Target#2 is unselected.

Well, this was my first idea too... But since there is a lot more information on screen (text/image) than in the 'Verbose' mode, ElChristou convinced me that it could be disconcerting to have all these information on screen with another object displayed on the background...

I'm not entirely sure what the difference between "Infoscript" and "Ultraverbose" mode is, ...

Infoscript is a function that :
- switches the Information text to 'Ultra Verbose' mode
- run a customized script concerning the selection (like a tour, etc...)

but I'm most interested in being able to expand informational text within Celestia without having to run scripts.

The Ultraverbose option seems to allow me to do that, since it's just a matter of editing ssc files to include the expanded text.

I totally agree with this. That's what Celestia needs : more info on selected objects (mass, density, temperature, chemical composition, etc..., also pictures of the selected planet surface, ...). Not just by running scripts only.

I too agree with you.

[ElChristou]

...Not just by running scripts only.

Note that the idea of Infoscript is to do whatever you want, you could display just text via the script using infotext, display just mages via script using infoimage, OR run a more complex script that can be a dynamical tour of the object with text and imagesdisplayed (feature I find quite attractive)...

[ElChristou]

...I'm most interested in being able to expand informational text within Celestia without having to run scripts. The Ultraverbose option seems to allow me to do that, since it's just a matter of editing ssc files to include the expanded text.

If it's only question of displaying text on screen, editing a .ssc or a .celx in this case don't represent a big difference...

[Malenfant]

Well, this was my first idea too... But since there is a lot more information on screen (text/image) than in the 'Verbose' mode, ElChristou convinced me that it could be disconcerting to have all these information on screen with another object displayed on the background...

I don't think it's much more disconcerting than showing the normal Verbose info for a target while looking at a different one. Consistency of functionality should take precedence IMO.

As an aside, I've somehow lost the ultraverbose functionality... usually I turn off the loadup scripts in Celestia (start.cel and demo.cel - I just comment them out in the cfg file). I did that with the new patch3 version and now when I go see Earth or the Moon I don't get any ultraverbose text for them... any idea why?

EDIT: Never mind, I found out - I edited the extras folder location and I hadn't moved the info files to the new location. It's sorted out now

[ElChristou]

Hm, but wouldn't the point be to do something like this?:

1) select Target#1.
2) Select Ultraverbose mode to show Target#1 data.
3) select Target#2.
4) Ultraverbose information on screen is automatically updated to show data for Target#2.
5) Go to Target#2 if you like, ultraverbose info remains on screen until Target#2 is unselected.

Well, this was my first idea too... But since there is a lot more information on screen (text/image) than in the 'Verbose' mode, ElChristou convinced me that it could be disconcerting to have all these information on screen with another object displayed on the background...

Vincent, the proposition of Malenfant is not what one can experiment in patch2; my request was that I found not really cool to have datas from one object on screen meanwhile another was selected... Malenfant's idea in another valid solution to this problem.

[Vincent]

If it's only question of displaying text on screen, editing a .ssc or a .celx in this case don't represent a big difference...

Well, I think there a more users that are able to deal with .ssc files than with .celx scripts...

I don't think keeping both functions would be a big deal :
- [V] key to switch on the 'Ultra Verbose' mode only.
- Infoscript via the contextual menu to switch on the 'Ultra Verbose' mode and run a script.

Vincent, the proposition of Malenfant is not what one can experiment in patch2;

Well, I'm missing something. Because that is exactly the way it was working...

As an aside, I've somehow lost the ultraverbose functionality... usually I turn off the loadup scripts in Celestia (start.cel and demo.cel - I just comment them out in the cfg file). I did that with the new patch3 version and now when I go see Earth or the Moon I don't get any ultraverbose text for them... any idea why?

I've commented out all the script files in the .cfg as you did, and InfoText/Image is still working on my system. Are you sure you didn't edit the info_planet.ssc file ? You can try to select the Milky Way, to see if it's still working for galaxies...

[ElChristou]

Well, this was my first idea too... But since there is a lot more information on screen (text/image) than in the 'Verbose' mode, ElChristou convinced me that it could be disconcerting to have all these information on screen with another object displayed on the background...

I don't think it's much more disconcerting than showing the normal Verbose info for a target while looking at a different one. Consistency of functionality should take precedence IMO.

In the official version, if you go to mars, then select a star in the background, you have a body in front of you with datas in the HUD for another one... it was also true in patch2, the diferrence is that in patch 2 60% of the screen was coverred with info, so perso I found strange to have for example a photo of Mars ground with the Milky Way on screen...

[ElChristou]

Vincent, the proposition of Malenfant is not what one can experiment in patch2;

Well, I'm missing something. Because that is exactly the way it was working...

Ha, perhaps there was something wrong with my build then, because the UltaVerbose wasn't updated when selecting another body...

[Malenfant]

In the official version, if you go to mars, then select a star in the background, you have a body in front of you with datas in the HUD for another one... it was also true in patch2, the diferrence is that in patch 2 60% of the screen was coverred with info, so perso I found strange to have for example a photo of Mars ground with the Milky Way on screen...

Yes, but in the official version you can still have info on the screen that isn't related to the object in front of you - there's just less of it.

I can see why you'd think it's confusing, but forcing people to keep turning on the UV mode to read stuff about a system isn't an ideal solution. I'm thinking that if you are exploring a multi-body planetary system for which there is a lot of ultraverbose infotext available then every time you moved from one body to another you'd have to keep reactivating the UV mode. Doesn't seem very practical to me.

[ElChristou]

In the official version, if you go to mars, then select a star in the background, you have a body in front of you with datas in the HUD for another one... it was also true in patch2, the diferrence is that in patch 2 60% of the screen was coverred with info, so perso I found strange to have for example a photo of Mars ground with the Milky Way on screen...

Yes, but in the official version you can still have info on the screen that isn't related to the object in front of you - there's just less of it.

Exactly, it's way it's not a big problem...

I can see why you'd think it's confusing, but forcing people to keep turning on the UV mode to read stuff about a system isn't an ideal solution. I'm thinking that if you are exploring a multi-body planetary system for which there is a lot of ultraverbose infotext available then every time you moved from one body to another you'd have to keep reactivating the UV mode. Doesn't seem very practical to me.

It's why in my idea, UltraVerbose don't exist anymore, all contextual information is delivered via the contextual menu and the infoscript.

Note that I'm not coder at all and I can only understand the big lines on how work the celx code and I'm unable to write a simple tour... BUT I suppose that once you understand how to display an infotext or infoimage via a script it won't be more difficult to do than modifying a .ssc file...

Concerning the HUD, in the absolute I would keep only informations relative to the observer vs body in verbose 1 (terse) (distance, abs mag and apparent diameter for stars, distance and apparent diameter for other bodies; luminosity, classe, radius -> in verbose 2 (verbose))

[Malenfant]

Note that I'm not coder at all and I can only understand the big lines on how work the celx code and I'm unable to write a simple tour... BUT I suppose that once you understand how to display an infotext or infoimage via a script it won't be more difficult to do than modifying a .ssc file...

There's a few significant problems that I can see with doing this using scripts though.

The first is portability - I can basically include all information for a new system in the ssc or stc file with the UV option, but with a script I'd have to include that in the distribution, along with any images to go along with the InfoImage.

The second is ease of use - an ssc can be plonked straight into an extras folder and loaded on startup by default. Scripts are more complex, you'd have to run them individually within runtime. Scripts require one to get one's head around how to use them, whereas the UV option doesn't.

The third is simplicity of creation - with the UV option I just need to enter text into the Infotext field of the ssc. With scripts I have to learn scripting, or make the infoimage (which is itself much more fiddly to do than just entering text into an ssc).


The scripts have a few advantages - the ability to display images for example. But for what I have in mind I'd really see no reason for me to use the script option at all.

[Vincent]

I can see why you'd think it's confusing, but forcing people to keep turning on the UV mode to read stuff about a system isn't an ideal solution. I'm thinking that if you are exploring a multi-body planetary system for which there is a lot of ultraverbose infotext available then every time you moved from one body to another you'd have to keep reactivating the UV mode. Doesn't seem very practical to me.

OK, as for that first point, here's a version of the .exe file that allows 'Ultra Verbose' mode to stay turned on when a new selection is made, without having to press the [V] key again :
http://vincent.gian.club.fr/celestia/ce ... atch30.exe
Users who are interested in this feature can just compare the 2 versions and let us know their opinion about it.

For ElChristou and other non-Win users, here are the changes to make in the code...
- in src/celestia/celestiacore.cpp : remove or comment out these lines (from line 3360):

// infoImage / infoText - start - Vincent
if (sel != infoSelection)
{
if (hudDetail > 2)
setHudDetail(2);
infoSelection = sel;
}
// infoImage / infoText - end Vincent

- in src/celestia/celestiacore.h : remove or comment out these lines (from line 456):

// infoImage / infoText - start - Vincent
Selection infoSelection;
// infoImage / infoText - end - Vincent

As for the second point, I still think being able to turn on the 'Ultra Verbose' mode via the [V] key is a good thing. Then, based on (another ) ElChristou's idea, a sub-menu could be implemented in the Infoscript function to make the user able to choose between several options and scripts :
--> More about Earth :
------------------------> switch to Ultra Verbose mode (only)
------------------------> + run script #1 : info_earth_script.celx
------------------------> + run script #2 : earth_tour.cel
------------------------> ...

That would make everybody happy. But that would also need a more complex code...

[ElChristou]

There's a few significant problems that I can see with doing this using scripts though.

The first is portability - I can basically include all information for a new system in the ssc or stc file with the UV option, but with a script I'd have to include that in the distribution, along with any images to go along with the InfoImage.

Which distribution? I don't get the point; if you want to add some info in all case you must edit something, or the ssc of you system, or a new ssc to modify your system or in case of InfoScript a celx by bodies; this is the only complication with script, you will have to "by" bodies no way to group all your modif...

The second is ease of use - an ssc can be plonked straight into an extras folder and loaded on startup by default. Scripts are more complex, you'd have to run them individually within runtime. Scripts require one to get one's head around how to use them, whereas the UV option doesn't.

Well, all depend on how you personally use Celestia; recently (it has been removed not so long ago) there was a script folder in the osX default package, so adding a file to extras or script was't a big deal... Perso I don't understand with this folder is not anymore in the default package...

The third is simplicity of creation - with the UV option I just need to enter text into the Infotext field of the ssc. With scripts I have to learn scripting, or make the infoimage (which is itself much more fiddly to do than just entering text into an ssc).

The scripts have a few advantages - the ability to display images for example. But for what I have in mind I'd really see no reason for me to use the script option at all.[/quote]
Apparently you are interested in displaying text or images; in this case I repeat, making it via ssc or celx will be almost the same; you won't have to learn all about celx just for this...
The main problem of your argumentation is that you are focused on your own way to use Celestia; Perso, I try to see a more global use of this function. I repeat I'm not a coder at all, so I don't have interest in promoting celx but IMO the possibilities of the script along with InfoImage/InfoText are so important that it would be stupid to forget it...