Playing devil's advocate for a while:
Some of my interests lie in directions that would require changes to Celestia that have long been discussed but never implemented. Breaking the 16KLY barrier, for example, so that galactic star motions could be watched more easily. (See my recent posting to the Users forum: http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9602 )
I suspect there may be other people with similarly unrealizable interests who are going elsewhere because of features that aren't being implemented due to lack of available developer time. Why discuss them if you know they can't be done? But then the features certainly won't be implemented if nobody expresses an interest...
Sadly, Bye Fridger
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ElChristou
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Re: Sadly, Bye Fridger
rthorvald wrote:ElChristou wrote:Advertising about Celestia in high sphere of education/research, having a dynamic dev and of course some intersting topics on the forum will change the situation
Indeed. Higher visibility is crucial to attract people that can contribute...
Targeted visibility otherwhise we will get hundreds of young fools
rthorvald wrote:...So, spread the word...
I do what I can but my geographical situation and my "social bubble" is not ideal at all in this case
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Topic authort00fri - Developer
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Malenfant wrote:...+++++++++++++++++++
If, after reading the majority of the daily posts, I simply realize that a thread of mine about determining e.g. binary orbit parameters or rendering planetary nebulae would at best interest you and one or two others, well, then I just spend my little spare time otherwise!
+++++++++++++++++++
Again, I think that's the wrong motivation.
Well, I have to disagree here. Of course in my case the alternative is surely not watching TV or browsing the Web
. Before I write tedious articles that are read/appreciated by just one or two , I rather turn around and continue coding/developing for Celestia!
That also has to be done at times
and serves the same community.
Oh, yes, watch out in the near future, I'll soon announce some cute software that I did in intensive collaboration with Robert Skuridin (? ???±?µ?€?‚ ???????€????????
) from Russia!
Bye Fridger
Last edited by t00fri on 24.05.2006, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
One more thing.
As usual I completely agree with Selden.
And more, as I've already written I guess that scientists are not using Celestia at all. Now Celestia is an entertaining and educational tool not a professional tool. The quality of the discussions on these forums is related to the audience of the program.
Kind regards
As usual I completely agree with Selden.
And more, as I've already written I guess that scientists are not using Celestia at all. Now Celestia is an entertaining and educational tool not a professional tool. The quality of the discussions on these forums is related to the audience of the program.
Kind regards
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Topic authort00fri
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selden wrote:Playing devil's advocate for a while:
Some of my interests lie in directions that would require changes to Celestia that have long been discussed but never implemented. Breaking the 16KLY barrier, for example, so that galactic star motions could be watched more easily. (See my recent posting to the Users forum: http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9602 )
I suspect there may be other people with similarly unrealizable interests who are going elsewhere because of features that aren't being implemented due to lack of available developer time. Why discuss them if you know they can't be done? But then the features certainly won't be implemented if nobody expresses an interest...
+++++++++++++++++
Generally I agree. The lack of a more systematic planning in Celestia development has certainly made people turn away in frustration.
+++++++++++++++++
On the other hand throughout the last 4 years I have intensively collaborated with quite a few people on Celestia projects:
--With Grant Hutchison
on various astrophysical issues like doing Saturn rings from separate data for transparency and reflectivity, endless discussions on whether the sun can be seen from Titan's surface
, Mie scattering,...etc
-- with Christophe...on many things
-- with Toti on mass rendering of galaxies
-- with ElChristou on making the best galaxy templates in PNG format
-- with jestr on Phoebe's texture/model
-- with Robert Skuridin on ...wait and see
As you can observe, not all are programmers! So if people have ideas or visions about something they definitely want implemented, why not joining your know how with that of others who happen to know what you are lacking!?
I have learned a tremendous amount through these collaborations, just as I have learned by collaborating in far more than 100 scientific publications with many different people on this globe (including my wife
)...
And ALL these collaborations were/are a lot of fun!
Bye Fridger
Paolo,
I know you are mistaken
There are scientists who use Celestia for more than a personal hobby. See, for example, http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/mission_anal ... erview.htm
Some of them have even posted once or twice to the Celestia Forum. I'm sure there are many reasons why they wouldn't be very vocal, however.
I know you are mistaken
There are scientists who use Celestia for more than a personal hobby. See, for example, http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/mission_anal ... erview.htm
Some of them have even posted once or twice to the Celestia Forum. I'm sure there are many reasons why they wouldn't be very vocal, however.
Selden
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Topic authort00fri
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selden wrote:Paolo,
I know you are mistaken
There are scientists who use Celestia for more than a personal hobby. See, for example, http://www.esa.int/gsp/ACT/mission_anal ... erview.htm
Some of them have even posted once or twice to the Celestia Forum. I'm sure there are many reasons why they wouldn't be very vocal, however.
I am a scientist using Celestia
, many of my colleagues use Celestia for various (serious) purposes.
We would have been fools to invest such a lot of work into Celestia's high precision if this were to remain without applications...
Selden, are you suggesting that I should also better get less "vocal"?
Bye Fridger
Last edited by t00fri on 25.05.2006, 00:15, edited 1 time in total.
Of course I realise that you'd prefer to spend time doing coding etc... but certainly when things had ground to a halt officially the work you did with TotI on the FT projects revitalised things somewhat. I think it'd be worthwhile for you and other interested developers to continue to implement changes and updates into your own new builds of Celestia while things seem to be stagnating again (I know on the developer list Chris said he wanted to get some stuff done before he headed out mountain climbing again).... but that could revitalise your interest perhaps?
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system
t00fri wrote:Selden, are you suggesting that I should also bette get less "vocal"?
I think actually he means that you're a bit of an anomaly among scientists... most full time professors wouldn't really have the time or interest in posting to forums and playing an active role in the group development of a program. Heck, it's hard enough to get fulltime scientists to talk to eachother AT ALL on any forum about anything
.My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system
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Topic authort00fri
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Malenfant wrote:Of course I realise that you'd prefer to spend time doing coding etc... but certainly when things had ground to a halt officially the work you did with TotI on the FT projects revitalised things somewhat. I think it'd be worthwhile for you and other interested developers to continue to implement changes and updates into your own new builds of Celestia while things seem to be stagnating again (I know on the developer list Chris said he wanted to get some stuff done before he headed out mountain climbing again).... but that could revitalise your interest perhaps?
Didn't you read my answer to that "quick shot" of Chris this morning?
. I have actually been working very hard at Celestia matters during the last months. So quite soon, there will be visible results.
Hey ElChristou, we should soon get back onto our template job
. Yesterday, I had a fresh look at the ones that we have done already, ...not bad, not bad...
Bye Fridger
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Topic authort00fri
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Malenfant wrote:t00fri wrote:Selden, are you suggesting that I should also bette get less "vocal"?
I think actually he means that you're a bit of an anomaly among scientists...most full time professors wouldn't really have the time or interest in posting to forums and playing an active role in the group development of a program.
Hi hi, I am just typing fast... (11 finger system, of course)
Bye Fridger
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Don. Edwards
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Fridger,
I know we don't talk much anymore, but I don't think it is a lack of quality in the posts, but more like there are allot more members now than ever.
Four years ago we were a small group that worked, for the most part, well together. Sure there were times when we stepped on each others toes, but we were mature enough to see things through. So what?€™s really changed? Well the forum has grown by leaps and bounds. Of course not everyone that joins the forum remains or makes posts. That is simply how these online communities work.
Yes we have seen our share of good and knobble friends drift away never to be heard from again. I too have had my share of disappointments with both the community and Celestia's glacial advancement of late. I too have also thought of forever drifting away into the vast void and never returning. But I always seem to be gravitated right back here.
You must keep in mind that as a group such as we are, and the years that have gone by, the Celestia community as a whole is a remarkable thing. We seem to have been able to stay together through many a rough stretch. Even when it looked like the server may have been down for good over a month ago, we were right back to bussiness as usual.
I also know how it feels when something you have worked on doesn't seem to garner the attention or support one might think or hope it would. But that is how this community seems to be working at this time. You have to remember that back in the forums early days, or shall I use the term, its hay-day, Celestia was hot, it was advancing fast, as was the video card technology. We were also a community built of older and more mature people in general. Most of us were college grads or the equivalent. As time has gone by the forum has grown and with it have come the younger members, and to there merit they want to use there minds and Celestia is a great tool for that, whether its for education, play, or using its engine to create a game.
And yes some of the posts as of late have been a bit silly or simply not well thought out. It does happen from time to time. Just do what I do and pass them by and don?€™t even give them a second thought. I can?€™t tell how many posts I skip past on visits. Most simply don?€™t interest me, or are just about more technical things and the inner workings Celestia that I know nothing about. I just can?€™t take the time to look and read every single post. I know this probably leaves me out of the information loop at times, but I can live with that. This also means that I personally would make a very poor moderator.
Now, are there ways to turn things around? Of course there are. Simply asking that everyone really stop and think about what they plan to post is one. A case in point; do we need to devote space and a thread to a quiz? No, I am with Fridger on this. If you want to post a quiz then do it on your own web space and leave it out of the forum. Or put it in the Purgatory section even if it has to do with a legitimate topic. The thread sections were designed into there relevant sections for a reason, and if a topic seems to not to fit right its up to the system adim or the moderators to take these topics and move them to an appropriate area. I also feel that more policing of the forums would be better. I know Selden has been doing his best to keep up with this, but maybe its time to add a few more moderators to help take the load off. He can?€™t be here all the time and there are times that immediate action is needed. Other forums on other sights have this kind of policing and it works well for keeping things in order and also keeping out the riffraff, aka spammrs.
Now as for to do with Celestia, I won?€™t even go there. There is so much that can and could be done. There have been promised features that have never surfaced. I know Chris has a life, as do we all. But it really does hurt the community when he disappears for long stretches of time and we hear nothing. I won?€™t say anything more on this subject.
So in the end Fridger, just hang in there. Please keep in mind this isn?€™t yesterdays Celestia forum, but today?€™s and tomorrows. It will do nothing but get bigger and yes we will have to deal with the occasionally silly question and post. But we have managed to navigate these waters before, and I have no doubt that we can and will do it many more times.
I truly hope I never see the day that you truly leave, because when that day comes, Celestia will be loosing one of its best contributors and advocates and dare I say founding fathers. And on that day it would most likely be my last as well, because from that point on it surely will be the end of an era.
Don. Edwards
I know we don't talk much anymore, but I don't think it is a lack of quality in the posts, but more like there are allot more members now than ever.
Four years ago we were a small group that worked, for the most part, well together. Sure there were times when we stepped on each others toes, but we were mature enough to see things through. So what?€™s really changed? Well the forum has grown by leaps and bounds. Of course not everyone that joins the forum remains or makes posts. That is simply how these online communities work.
Yes we have seen our share of good and knobble friends drift away never to be heard from again. I too have had my share of disappointments with both the community and Celestia's glacial advancement of late. I too have also thought of forever drifting away into the vast void and never returning. But I always seem to be gravitated right back here.
You must keep in mind that as a group such as we are, and the years that have gone by, the Celestia community as a whole is a remarkable thing. We seem to have been able to stay together through many a rough stretch. Even when it looked like the server may have been down for good over a month ago, we were right back to bussiness as usual.
I also know how it feels when something you have worked on doesn't seem to garner the attention or support one might think or hope it would. But that is how this community seems to be working at this time. You have to remember that back in the forums early days, or shall I use the term, its hay-day, Celestia was hot, it was advancing fast, as was the video card technology. We were also a community built of older and more mature people in general. Most of us were college grads or the equivalent. As time has gone by the forum has grown and with it have come the younger members, and to there merit they want to use there minds and Celestia is a great tool for that, whether its for education, play, or using its engine to create a game.
And yes some of the posts as of late have been a bit silly or simply not well thought out. It does happen from time to time. Just do what I do and pass them by and don?€™t even give them a second thought. I can?€™t tell how many posts I skip past on visits. Most simply don?€™t interest me, or are just about more technical things and the inner workings Celestia that I know nothing about. I just can?€™t take the time to look and read every single post. I know this probably leaves me out of the information loop at times, but I can live with that. This also means that I personally would make a very poor moderator.
Now, are there ways to turn things around? Of course there are. Simply asking that everyone really stop and think about what they plan to post is one. A case in point; do we need to devote space and a thread to a quiz? No, I am with Fridger on this. If you want to post a quiz then do it on your own web space and leave it out of the forum. Or put it in the Purgatory section even if it has to do with a legitimate topic. The thread sections were designed into there relevant sections for a reason, and if a topic seems to not to fit right its up to the system adim or the moderators to take these topics and move them to an appropriate area. I also feel that more policing of the forums would be better. I know Selden has been doing his best to keep up with this, but maybe its time to add a few more moderators to help take the load off. He can?€™t be here all the time and there are times that immediate action is needed. Other forums on other sights have this kind of policing and it works well for keeping things in order and also keeping out the riffraff, aka spammrs.
Now as for to do with Celestia, I won?€™t even go there. There is so much that can and could be done. There have been promised features that have never surfaced. I know Chris has a life, as do we all. But it really does hurt the community when he disappears for long stretches of time and we hear nothing. I won?€™t say anything more on this subject.
So in the end Fridger, just hang in there. Please keep in mind this isn?€™t yesterdays Celestia forum, but today?€™s and tomorrows. It will do nothing but get bigger and yes we will have to deal with the occasionally silly question and post. But we have managed to navigate these waters before, and I have no doubt that we can and will do it many more times.
I truly hope I never see the day that you truly leave, because when that day comes, Celestia will be loosing one of its best contributors and advocates and dare I say founding fathers. And on that day it would most likely be my last as well, because from that point on it surely will be the end of an era.
Don. Edwards
I am officially a retired member.
I might answer a PM or a post if its relevant to something.
Ah, never say never!!
Past texture releases, Hmm let me think about it
Thanks for your understanding.
I might answer a PM or a post if its relevant to something.
Ah, never say never!!
Past texture releases, Hmm let me think about it
Thanks for your understanding.
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Topic authort00fri
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Don,
I really do appreciate your encouraging words! I also agree with most of what you wrote. Well, you have also been one of the "early crowd".
But don't worry, I was not planning to leave. The title of my thread was perhaps a bit misleading. It was more to indicate my sadness about the present forum status rather than any intentions to leave.
I hope, everything is fine with you?
Cheers,
Fridger
I really do appreciate your encouraging words! I also agree with most of what you wrote. Well, you have also been one of the "early crowd".
But don't worry, I was not planning to leave. The title of my thread was perhaps a bit misleading. It was more to indicate my sadness about the present forum status rather than any intentions to leave.
I hope, everything is fine with you?
Cheers,
Fridger
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tech2000
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This turned out to be one of the most interesting treads I've read in a long time...
Also I found it very interesting to read that Fridger have been working hard on Celestial Matters the past month or more.
Keep up the good work...
BTW, I've read someware the the backside of internet is that it gives idiots a channel to let their voice to be heard.
So Fridger, you have to turn on your internal "mental filter" and you'll be okay.
Bye, Anders
Also I found it very interesting to read that Fridger have been working hard on Celestial Matters the past month or more.
Keep up the good work...
BTW, I've read someware the the backside of internet is that it gives idiots a channel to let their voice to be heard.
So Fridger, you have to turn on your internal "mental filter" and you'll be okay.
Bye, Anders
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tech2000
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t00fri wrote:Anders,tech2000 wrote:...
Also I found it very interesting to read that Fridger have been working hard on Celestial Matters the past month or more.
Watch out
Bye Fridger
Ahh, got it. even better.
In my ears that sounds like a step closer to an updated release of Celestia...
Sweet!
Thanks for that info, Anders
tech2000 wrote:BTW, I've read someware the the backside of internet is that it gives idiots a channel to let their voice to be heard.
I know I said that somewhere (here?) recently... guess it's a common sentiment?
My Celestia page: Spica system, planetary magnitudes script, updated demo.cel, Quad system
Well Don said all I would have said... And its discouraging to see things turn out the way they do sometimes... But what does it take to change things? It takes action and intent... The action of doing something positive can nullify a negitive response.... I think theres a relation to mathematics, physics and the common daily events in life... When one chances upon an element of negitivity it tends to reflect upon us with a polar response... We react in a negitive manner.... I think if its at all possible we take a reaction our brains are about to produce and hold it in a train of thought I think we will find sometimes our responses are useless byproducts of a chaotic world... A world created in the image of a society based upon schism and discontent... We are all trying to find ourselves and where we fit in... Our reactions mostly are based upon past experiences... If the past becomes unimportant would it change the way we look at things? I for one like past experiences... Those positive and educational ones... We cannot flourish in life without levity... There must be the bully or the jester... And also there must be sadness and regression in order for our minds to discern the difference between them... We are a galaxy of particles intertwined with a cosmic makeup... Each and every one of us plays a part to a collective whole... A whole cosmic scheme of things so each action weither it seems so or not is important and it will affect the universe...
I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!
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RocketMan@JSC
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More Words of Encouragement!
I just wanted to let all you guys know that Celestia is being evaluated for use in Shuttle external tank visualizations during the post-meco separation maneuver. We are primarily interested in lighting and position of the tank as viewed by the crew and/or a camera within the umbilical compartment.
Your hard work and dedication is paying off. I was able to install Celestia 1.4.1 on RHEL 3 with absolutely no problems (other than the 3ds file copies). And best of all Celestia just screams on our machines. I don't know for sure where all this will end up but it's a fantastic start. Next up I'll be making the modifications tec has posted for spacecraft xyzq files--gotta have the attitude.
I'm also looking at using Celestia as a component in a trajectory design and visualization tool sort of like the Satellite Tool Kit (STK). As a software developer and astro engineer, I see Celestia as a fantastic graphics engine for visualizing the complex spacecraft and trajectory data that we deal with on a day to day basis. Hopefully I will have plenty of work time to devote to Celestia. I'm not sure what I'll be able to share back to the community but I will certainly try.
Again, Thanks for all your efforts,
Scott
Your hard work and dedication is paying off. I was able to install Celestia 1.4.1 on RHEL 3 with absolutely no problems (other than the 3ds file copies). And best of all Celestia just screams on our machines. I don't know for sure where all this will end up but it's a fantastic start. Next up I'll be making the modifications tec has posted for spacecraft xyzq files--gotta have the attitude.
I'm also looking at using Celestia as a component in a trajectory design and visualization tool sort of like the Satellite Tool Kit (STK). As a software developer and astro engineer, I see Celestia as a fantastic graphics engine for visualizing the complex spacecraft and trajectory data that we deal with on a day to day basis. Hopefully I will have plenty of work time to devote to Celestia. I'm not sure what I'll be able to share back to the community but I will certainly try.
Again, Thanks for all your efforts,
Scott