Temperature (possible feature request?)

[Neethis]

Hey everyone.

Is there a way to change the temperature of objects without screwing about with the albedo or distance from the parent star?

If not, I think there should be - itd make terraformation projects far easier

Thank,
Neethis

[Neethis]

No one? If its impossible could someone at least say that it is....

[selden]

The temperature displayed by Celestia is the black-body temperature of an airless object at that location. It cannot take into account warming due to atmospheric effects -- they are not well understood.

[Neethis]

would it not be possible, in subsequent versions of Celestia, to add in an optional line such as:

Temperature 260

in the same section as the Albedo of an object is written? This would be its temperature (in Kelvin) at the objects average distance from its parent star. It would just cause a different temperature to be displayed when the verbose information is being shown If it wasnt present in an objects .ssc, then Celestia would just work out the temperature like it does already.

I would like something like this just because I often build star systems which have terraformed planets or moons (involving soletas, mirrors, solar shades or some other type of cooling/heating devices) which I have to set crazy albedos for just to get them to a decent temperature... im sure someone else mustve noticed this? A good example is Mars... even when you set the Albedo very very low, it is still far below 260K average that Earth has...

[t00fri]

would it not be possible, in subsequent versions of Celestia, to add in an optional line such as:

Temperature 260

in the same section as the Albedo of an object is written? This would be its temperature (in Kelvin) at the objects average distance from its parent star. It would just cause a different temperature to be displayed when the verbose information is being shown If it wasnt present in an objects .ssc, then Celestia would just work out the temperature like it does already.

I would like something like this just because I often build star systems which have terraformed planets or moons (involving soletas, mirrors, solar shades or some other type of cooling/heating devices) which I have to set crazy albedos for just to get them to a decent temperature... im sure someone else mustve noticed this? A good example is Mars... even when you set the Albedo very very low, it is still far below 260K average that Earth has...

These things are trivially possible, but not in accordance with Celestia's design criteria. As Selden pointed out clearly, you are requesting an input quantity (Temperature) for which in many thousands of cases reliable (scientific) data are unavailable.

Celestia will not be coded to rely un such uncertain parameters. I recommend you to learn how to compile the Celestia source code in any convenient OS. Then you may easily add whatever you please.

Bye Fridger

[Neethis]

Okay, thanks.

@ t00fri, one of the big draws (and joys) for me about Celestia is the ability to make my own star systems - there is only a certain amount of times you can jump about around the blank unplaneted systems before you get bored. Thats why I asked about this - its an issue to me. So theres no need to describe what I ask about as "trivial" and unscientific, and talk down to me as if I cant read what Selden said, or that I dont know that science has its limits.
People sharing ideas (and material) that could improve the enjoyment of Celestia is surely what must and will keep it expanding, and keep the great enthusiasm for the project.
Things need fun, and fun is never trivial.

I will certainly have a go at learning how to work the source code though.

Neethis

[Boux]

would it not be possible, in subsequent versions of Celestia, to add in an optional line such as:

Temperature 260

in the same section as the Albedo of an object is written? This would be its temperature (in Kelvin) at the objects average distance from its parent star. It would just cause a different temperature to be displayed when the verbose information is being shown If it wasnt present in an objects .ssc, then Celestia would just work out the temperature like it does already.

I would like something like this just because I often build star systems which have terraformed planets or moons (involving soletas, mirrors, solar shades or some other type of cooling/heating devices) which I have to set crazy albedos for just to get them to a decent temperature... im sure someone else mustve noticed this? A good example is Mars... even when you set the Albedo very very low, it is still far below 260K average that Earth has...

These things are trivially possible, but not in accordance with Celestia's design criteria. As Selden pointed out clearly, you are requesting an input quantity (Temperature) for which in many thousands of cases reliable (scientific) data are unavailable.

Celestia will not be coded to rely un such uncertain parameters. I recommend you to learn how to compile the Celestia source code in any convenient OS. Then you may easily add whatever you please.

Bye Fridger

That's a brilliant summary indeed and I second it
Please don't touch the scientific foundations of Celestia.
Otherwise the purpose is lost.
Now, the beauty of open source is that anybody can play with the code and customize the engine to his/her own taste.

[t00fri]

Okay, thanks.

@ t00fri, one of the big draws (and joys) for me about Celestia is the ability to make my own star systems - there is only a certain amount of times you can jump about around the blank unplaneted systems before you get bored. Thats why I asked about this - its an issue to me. So theres no need to describe what I ask about as "trivial" and unscientific, and talk down to me as if I cant read what Selden said, or that I dont know that science has its limits.
People sharing ideas (and material) that could improve the enjoyment of Celestia is surely what must and will keep it expanding, and keep the great enthusiasm for the project.
Things need fun, and fun is never trivial.

I will certainly have a go at learning how to work the source code though.

Neethis

Sorry but you misunderstood, I suppose : You asked whether the introduction of a temperature input /was possible/. Of course, for us developers of Celestia it is trivially possible to code what you want.

HOWEVER:
I was never claiming that your interests are "trivial" or "unscientific". They just don't correspond to the /mainstream/ developing directions for Celestia, whether you like it or not.

You should not forget that many people with very different interests are using Celestia. Your particular interests are just one example of many. For that reason we release Celestia as an Open Source program such that everyone will be able to modify the code according to taste.


Bye Fridger

[Neethis]

Okay, that is fair enough. The way you said it, it sounded very patronizing.
I dont want Celestia to become unscientific or unrealistic - that is the other big attraction of the program for me, how realistic it is - I was just putting ideas out there to try and make Celestia easier for people like myself who like to mess around, and make the universe a little less empty

I know people who will be able to teach me how to work the coding out - ill have my temperature input line yet!

Thanks,
Neethis

[t00fri]

Okay, that is fair enough. The way you said it, it sounded very patronizing.

You are welcome to lead this conversation in German with me. Then I assure you, my writing will read exactly as it is meant to sound . Complaining is usually easier than speaking a foreign language fluently...

I dont want Celestia to become unscientific or unrealistic - that is the other big attraction of the program for me, how realistic it is - I was just putting ideas out there to try and make Celestia easier for people like myself who like to mess around, and make the universe a little less empty

I know people who will be able to teach me how to work the coding out - ill have my temperature input line yet!

Thanks,
Neethis

Good you got me right this time...

How about using Celestia's celx scripting language for your purpose? There are many things one may do with it. The advantage is that Celestia's core code remains unaffected.

I am sure Harald, can tell you more precisely what is possible.

Bye Fridger

[hharris]

As a former JPL scientist, let me put my two cents in here.

I absolutely agree that Celestia should stick to "hard" science, but science is much more than facts; it's about evolving theories that are constantly challenged as we get more data. That's the fun of it.

In my mind that's what scripts are for. I've only been at this a week, but already I see the fantastic potential of trying out models on real Celestia data. Temperature would be a good example, but the possibilities are only limited by the imagination.

Henry