What do you think?

[Hunter Parasite]

When you go through a wormhole, is it like walking through a door, or going through a tunnel like in stargate?

[Malenfant]

You're asking for unscientific opinion again on a science board.

[Hunter Parasite]

and of course your going to degrade me with pointing out every one of my actions flaws... What a world i live in. I can't stand the ridicule so im not gonna be on this paticular board for a while.

[selden]

HP,

I didn't see ME's comment as trying to degrade you. As I read it, he was trying to point out that the physical appearance of a thing isn't based on opinion. The "Physics and Astronomy" Forum is primarily for topics based on scientific studies, not on opinion polls.

I suspect that none of us here (except perhaps for Fridger) knows enough about general relativity to understand what a Lorentzian wormhole would look like.

Postings like this one, that essentially are science fiction or fantasy topics not directly related to Celestia, probably should be in the Purgatory Forum.

[Hunter Parasite]

i would've reacted differently if he had suggested that.

[GlobeMaker]

"When you go through a wormhole, is it like walking through a door, or going through a tunnel like in stargate?"

Tunnel.

It's like going into a long dark tunnel, with walls that have
glowing patterns.
This tunnel is an illusion, formed by an accelerating frame of reference.
The acceleration might pull your toes away from your knees, gradually.
This acceleration is caused, not just by matter changing space-time, but
also by energy density changing space-time. There lies the rub.

Is your alledged "wormhole" formed by matter in a black hole, or is it
packed with energy concentrates?

To protect yourself from being made too tall, you would need to be
traveling in a customized energy concentrate shell. This enclosure
would exactly counteract the warped frame of reference by localizing
energy quanta, such as virtual photons. Also, flame-shielding is
advised for the sensitive traveller. But for those who can withstand the
buffeting by the bad boys of the quanta populations, the view from
the bottom would be beyond our kenning.

[Hunter Parasite]

see look. someone bothered to answer my question. well sortof anyways. point is, i was looking for something like that. not ridicule for my mistakes.

[selden]

But you need to realize that his description is fantasy, *not* science.

[Malenfant]

i would've reacted differently if he had suggested that.

I've suggested that several times in other threads like this that you've started and you seem to have ignored what I said. You still don't seem to get the point that this board is not a place to post or ask for one's opinions about what reality is like. This is a place for fact, not fantasy.

"what do you think...?" has no place on this board. "How does this work...?" does.

[Smacklug]

Yeah well what if we think it's like walking through an overhang YEAH WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT SCIENCE PEOPLE HUH.

[t00fri]

Yeah well what if we think it's like walking through an overhang YEAH WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT SCIENCE PEOPLE HUH.

There are other boards suitable for less serious conversations about many topics, including "fantasy physics and fantasy astronomy". I can recommend the Purgatory for such attempts...

People with a high level of knowledge hardly get tired explaining things if asked for it...However, having to read continuously such a lot of crap by "hobby theorists" lacking any kind of basic backround in that matter is simply too much! The inescapable consequence is that those "brothers of Einstein" will be among themselves here within a very short while

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BUT NOTE: that's not the intention of this forum!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bye Fridger

PS: As a last resort:

Out there in the NET, there are innumerably many boards, where people exclusively talk about things they don't understand...

[selden]

I'm moving this thread to purgatory.

[GlobeMaker]

Thank you for the quick trip to purgatory. If there were a forum for speculation about the future of physics, that would have been preferable to being put in a semi-hell. But it is better than being burned at the stake :

"In Cena de le Ceneri, Giordano Bruno defended the heliocentric theory of Copernicus . It appears that he did not understand astronomy very well, for his theory is confused on several points. In De l'Infinito , Universo e Mondi, he argued that the universe was infinite, that it contained an infinite number of worlds, and that these are all inhabited by intelligent beings.

Wherever he went, Bruno's passionate utterings led to opposition. During his English period he outraged the Oxford faculty in a lecture at the university; upon his return to France, in 1585, he got into a violent quarrel about a scientific instrument. He fled Paris for Germany in 1586, where he lived in Wittenberg, Prague, Helmstedt, and Frankfurt. As he had in France and England, he lived off the munificence of patrons, whom after some time he invariably outraged. In 1591 he accepted an invitation to live in Venice. Here he was arrested by the Inquisition and tried. After he had recanted, Bruno was sent to Rome, in 1592, for another trial. For eight years he was kept imprisoned and interrogated periodically. When, in the end, he refused to recant, he was declared a heretic and burned at the stake. "

Once again, thank you for your gentle transport to semi-hell. Your authoritative qualities and pleasant discourse have convinced me to recant my writings on the changing frame of reference. I now realize that I must never use imaginative phrases in front of the perfect authorities. Imaginative speculation is an intolerable offense to those who already know everything. It is written.

[selden]

If the Celestia board had a "Fiction" forum, I probably would have moved it there.

The Purgatory forum is for discussions not directly related to Celestia.
The Astronomy and Physics forum is not intended for discussions about imaginary flights-of-fancy presented as if they were factual.

Sorry.

[GlobeMaker]

It burns, IT BURNS! Ow, ouch, Lord have mercy, it burns......
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........................



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Malenfant]

I now realize that I must never use imaginative phrases in front of the perfect authorities. Imaginative speculation is an intolerable offense to those who already know everything. It is written.

That is an utterly ridiculous over-exaggeration and misrepresentation of the issue here.

The point is that the Physics/Astronomy board is supposed to be for scientific discussion, not speculation. Some people here seem to think that 'scientific discussion' means 'rampant speculation based on little or no data' or 'touting one's own opinions rather than what is actually known' or 'a pedestal for one's own crackpot theories as if they were fact'. If you want to do that, then either post here or find some other forum to do it on (there's plenty of places like that on the internet). That sort of thing however is distracting and even dangerous on a science board because other readers who don't know much about science may misinterpret those speculations and opinions as fact when they are nothing of the sort.

Your (globemaker's) speculation about a wormhole for example is misleadingly presented authoritatively as if it were fact when it is nothing of the sort.

Purgatory's name is unfortunate, but it's basically nothing more than 'off-topic chatter'.

[t00fri]

++++++++++++++++++
Certainly noone contributing to the physics & astronomy board would want to impose any scholastic prejudices! So your "burning story" was entirely besides the point.
++++++++++++++++++

The problem is rather that more recently a number of people have effectively contributed to lower the level of this discussion board towards SF -- TV saga style questions and comics fantasy. Noone knowledgable in physics and astronomy will stand such a level for long. The physics & astronomy board used to be a vivid place for communication and discussion of some latest findings in space research, cosmology, astronomy & astrophysics, or for asking interesting physics & astronomy questions to the experts etc.

It's not so much the content of the threads that appears bothersome recently, but rather that repeatedly some people /knowing NO physics whatsoever/ put forward their "theories" in a manner that creates the impression that "Einstein's brother" in person is writing ...Such a behaviour is misleading and undesirable for various reasons. Please believe me , an experienced professor of theoretical physics will know after a very short while whether there was any "substance" in the post...

+++++++++++++++++++++
And just to get things straight: one certainly does not need a PhD in physics or astronomy to make most relevant and interesting contributions to our Physics & Astronomy board!
+++++++++++++++++++++

Bye Fridger

[Judas Maccabeus]

Now that the thread's where it's supposed to be, why don't we get back to the discussion?

Personally, I think it's more like going through a paper shredder, in that tidal forces would tear you apart like a wet paper towel. But for speculation, if by luck you manage to get through it reasonably intact, then I'd say tunnel. Then again, that's from the prejudice of normal situation, where movement always requires time... but I'll stick with that for now.

Of course, an open door is really a kind of tunnel, but that's just being pedantic.

[selden]

Remember that most pictures of "actual" wormholes are 2D projections of a 3D projection of a 4D object. In general, I'd expect one to have a spherical "surface" through which you would see the region that's around the remote end. Presumably the surface could have other shapes, especially if it's distorted by local gravitational or other effects. I'd expect fancy shapes (e.g. square) would need a lot of energy to maintain.

[rthorvald]

Remember that most pictures of "actual" wormholes are 2D projections of a 3D projection of a 4D object. In general, I'd expect one to have a spherical "surface" through which you would see the region that's around the remote end

Well, since we are in Purgatory... Just for fun, the inside of my personal Celestia wormhole looks like this
(actually it don??t, but this is what a screenshot are able to capture);



... Here the exit is down about half an AU. It is entirely two-dimensional on the outside...

Travelling through it to strange destinations works, too... Really. More on
that sometime next year...

-rthorvald