Available for download - Asteroid Maker 1.6

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hank
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Post #41by hank » 19.10.2005, 08:05

bdm wrote:
hank wrote:The Lua standard math library includes sqrt, sin, cos, asin, acos, atan, exp, and log10, and it may be possible to implement norminv. Would you be able to provide me with a copy of your spreadsheet in SYLK format so I can have a look at the formulas you're using? Also, about how many input parameters are involved altogether?

- Hank
norminv(x, mean, stddev) is a function that converts a value to the corresponding value in a normal distribution with a given mean and standard deviation. 0.0 < x < 1.0. In the spreadsheet it is mostly used to calculate a Rayleigh distribution using the formula sqrt(norminv(x, 0, stddev)^2 + norminv(y, 0, stddev)^2) where 0 < x < 1 and 0 < y < 1. Norminv need not be used, but it does improve the accuracy of the distribution of the resulting orbits. (You probably know about norminv already but I provide an explanation to benefit those who don't know what it is.)
I found source code for a Java implementation which can probably be converted to Lua or c for use in CELX if we need it.
bdm wrote:I'm not familiar with SYLK format, but the spreadsheet is compatible with OpenOffice. You may convert it if you wish but I prefer not to do so due to bandwidth considerations (I only have dialup access from the machine on which I develop the spreadsheet.)

SYLK is an ASCII interchange format that I believe you can export from Excel. Probably also from OpenOffice. I'm not sure how large the file would be. Unfortunately I don't have either Excel or OpenOffice. If you aren't able to provide me with an SYLK format export, perhaps someone reading this can?

Also, can you tell me about how many input parameters are involved altogether in the spreadsheet?

- Hank

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Post #42by selden » 19.10.2005, 11:07

Hank,

I suspect you're aware that OpenOffice is freely available for MacOS X as well as Windows and Linux. It is quite large, though.
Selden

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Post #43by hank » 19.10.2005, 15:52

selden wrote:Hank,

I suspect you're aware that OpenOffice is freely available for MacOS X as well as Windows and Linux. It is quite large, though.

Selden,

Might it be possible for you to export bdm's spreadsheet to SYLK for me?

- Hank

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Post #44by ANDREA » 19.10.2005, 16:31

Hello BDM, I'm very interested in your creation, but I have this need:
I wish to put an asteroid ring around the "c" planet of 47 UMA. 8O
I put in the spreadsheet the "name of central star" as
"47 UMA/47 UMA c", saved the resulting file (but why there are so many lines with "#BLANK"?) as "asteroids.ssc, and installed in "data" folder instead of the previous one, but nothing appear around "c". :cry:
Where is my mistake?
Perhaps it can work arounf a star, but not around a planet?
Can give some explanation on how to use it, please? :wink:
Thanks a lot.
Bye

Andrea :D
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selden
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Post #45by selden » 19.10.2005, 17:43

Andrea,

I think
"47 UMA/47 UMA c"
should be
"47 UMA/c"
Selden

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selden
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Post #46by selden » 19.10.2005, 17:58

Hank,

The spreadsheet is in three "sheets". SLK only supports a single sheet.

When saving each sheet individually in SLK format, Excel 2000 generates an error message saying that features may be lost.

At any rate, they're temporarily available at
http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/files/asteroid-maker-slk.zip (900KB)
Selden

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selden
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Post #47by selden » 19.10.2005, 18:05

Bruce,

For a future version of Asteroid Maker, you might want to consider varying the color and albedo values for the different types of asteroids (C, S and M ).
Selden

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selden
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Post #48by selden » 19.10.2005, 18:30

Bruce,

Another suggestion:

Include a 4th sheet that's an SSC defining the two planets.
Selden

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Post #49by hank » 19.10.2005, 19:23

selden wrote:Hank,

The spreadsheet is in three "sheets". SLK only supports a single sheet.

When saving each sheet individually in SLK format, Excel 2000 generates an error message saying that features may be lost.

At any rate, they're temporarily available at
http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/files/asteroid-maker-slk.zip (900KB)

Thanks, Selden.

Don't know if I'm going to be able to make any sense out of these, but I'll take a look.

- Hank

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Post #50by ANDREA » 19.10.2005, 23:56

selden wrote:Andrea, I think "47 UMA/47 UMA c" should be
"47 UMA/c"

Hello Selden, thank you for your kind reply.
I followed your suggestion, but nothing appeared around 47 UMA "c" planet, and nothing was shown in "Solar System Browser" window. :cry:
I repeated the procedure, but this time with "Sol/Pluto" as star, and in the "Solar System Browser" the Pluto subdirectory was filled up with almost 400 asteroids. :)
Hooray, I thought, problem is solved, I only need to use Sedna, or another planet or planetoid very far away from Sun, and I could show the asteroid ring around a planet. :wink:
But, alas, when arrived to Pluto, nothing was seen, no asteroids orbits, only the lone Charon. :cry:
I tried to go to #153, and I had a flight INTO Pluto, then THROUGH an asteroid, reaching at the end a crouch of asteroids, one into the other or mixed together, as you see here (remember, we are IN an asteroid which is IN Pluto) 8O

Image

So I need some more info on how to set the modifyable values (BTW, I used ALL the default values, except the star name). :wink:
Someone has used successfully the 1.3 release?
If yes, can he-she kindly show me the resulting .ssc file? :oops:
Help, please! Thanks a lot.
Bye

Andrea :D
ADDED LATER: I forgot to mention that I used the last Celestia FT1.1 release
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bdm
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Post #51by bdm » 20.10.2005, 01:03

ANDREA wrote:(but why there are so many lines with "#BLANK"?)

Each line in the SSC format corresponds to particular asteroids and moons from the Calculation sheet. Not all asteroids have moons. Where there is no moon #BLANK lines will be exported instead of orbital elements. The same applies to asteroids that are culled due to being in a Kirkwood gap.

The #BLANK lines are very easy to remove if you have access to a Linux system. This code:

Code: Select all

grep -v "#BLANK" < raw-file-with-blanks > asteroids.ssc

should do the job nicely. This is trickier to do with Windows, but I use Textpad and do a regular expression search-and-replace to remove these lines.

ANDREA wrote:Perhaps it can work arounf a star, but not around a planet?
Can give some explanation on how to use it, please? :wink:
Thanks a lot.
Bye

Andrea :D

I have never tried it around a planet instead of a star. I don't guarantee that the spreadsheet will perform reliably in such a situation.

At present, the spreadsheet works best for asteroid belts bounded by a small inner planet (like Mars) and a large outer planet (like Jupiter). In the future I would like to add support for asteroid belts with a small outer planet and a large inner planet, and also Kuiper belt support. I haven't yet done the research into the orbital resonances for these classes of asteroid belt so I cannot yet add these modes.

As for documentation, I'm working on supplying some, but at present my focus has been to get the spreadsheet working right.

selden wrote:Bruce,

For a future version of Asteroid Maker, you might want to consider varying the color and albedo values for the different types of asteroids (C, S and M).
The default color values are not correct and I hope to correct this soon. I'll have a look at the original asteroids' SSC file and use the color values from that in the next version.

Almost all the constants on the Constant sheet of the spreadsheet are editable (perhaps this page should have been called Variables). If users wish to change the values then they are free to do so.

selden wrote:Bruce,

Another suggestion:

Include a 4th sheet that's an SSC defining the two planets.
At present, the addon is intended to be used to create an asteroid belt for a predefined planetary system.

This is a good idea and I may do it, but not in version 1.4.

At present, the planets' parameters on the main page lack some information needed for complete orbital definitions. If a complete SSC file is required, a lot of extra data must be supplied. How much more information is needed? Do we want just enough to have a complete set of orbital parameters, or will other settings like textures, atmosphere and rings be needed? I would prefer to output just the orbital parameters, and let users supply the rest by editing the SSC file after the spreadsheet is done with it.

ANDREA wrote:I tried to go to #153, and I had a flight INTO Pluto, then THROUGH an asteroid, reaching at the end a crouch of asteroids, one into the other or mixed together, as you see here (remember, we are IN an asteroid which is IN Pluto)


I believe your problem may be happening because of the different units that Celestia uses for orbits. Orbits of planets around stars are expressed in Astronomical Units (AU), but orbits of moons around planets are expressed in kilometres. The spreadsheet is designed for asteroids around stars, so it uses AU for all orbits.

I have not tried it, but I believe that if you are using the default settings for asteroids around planets, then the asteroids will appear inside Pluto in the manner you described.

The orbital periods will also be incorrect. The spreadsheet uses solar masses as the mass unit for calculating the orbital periods.

The spreadsheet can be used to generate asteroids around planets, but the user will need to do the research and some experimentation to discover the correct values to use. Users will need to change the units from AU and solar masses to kilometres and some suitable value that gives correct orbital periods.

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Post #52by ANDREA » 20.10.2005, 08:05

bdm wrote:
ANDREA wrote:(but why there are so many lines with "#BLANK"?)
The #BLANK lines are very easy to remove if you have access to a Linux system. I use Textpad and do a regular expression search-and-replace to remove these lines.

OK bdm, I'll do it. :wink:

bdm wrote:
ANDREA wrote:Perhaps it can work arounf a star, but not around a planet? Andrea :D
I have never tried it around a planet instead of a star. I don't guarantee that the spreadsheet will perform reliably in such a situation.
As for documentation, I'm working on supplying some, but at present my focus has been to get the spreadsheet working right.
ANDREA wrote:I tried to go to #153, and I had a flight INTO Pluto, then THROUGH an asteroid, reaching at the end a crouch of asteroids, one into the other or mixed together, as you see here (remember, we are IN an asteroid which is IN Pluto)
bdm wrote:I believe your problem may be happening because of the different units that Celestia uses for orbits. Orbits of planets around stars are expressed in Astronomical Units (AU), but orbits of moons around planets are expressed in kilometres. The spreadsheet is designed for asteroids around stars, so it uses AU for all orbits. I have not tried it, but I believe that if you are using the default settings for asteroids around planets, then the asteroids will appear inside Pluto in the manner you described.
The orbital periods will also be incorrect. The spreadsheet uses solar masses as the mass unit for calculating the orbital periods.
Users will need to change the units from AU and solar masses to kilometres and some suitable value that gives correct orbital periods.

Yes, surely the reason is the different unit.
So, please, could you add a switch in the Constants page, i.e.-if around a star =1, if around a planet=2, with no change if =1, and converting from AU to km if=2? :wink:
BTW, thanks a lot for your work and your kind explanation.
Bye

Andrea :D
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Post #53by Guckytos » 20.10.2005, 08:39

I concur with ANDREA,

adding a switch, so that asteroids can be put into orbits around planets, would be a great idea.

Because then it could not only be used to create asteroid belts, but also moon distributions around gas giants, couldn'it?

Regards,

Guckytos

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Post #54by selden » 20.10.2005, 11:13

Andrea,

Unfortunately, the units used for moons around planets are not the same as the units used for planets. SemiMajorAxis is measured in km for moons, but in AU for planets, for example. The spreadsheet is using AU. I think this is why the asteroids are being drawn inside the planet and inside each other. They're only a few km apart.
Selden

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bdm
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Post #55by bdm » 20.10.2005, 11:32

Guckytos wrote:I concur with ANDREA,

adding a switch, so that asteroids can be put into orbits around planets, would be a great idea.

Because then it could not only be used to create asteroid belts, but also moon distributions around gas giants, couldn'it?

Regards,

Guckytos

It could be used as such, but there may be realism issues. Moon systems around gas giants tend to settle into a variety of resonant orbits. At Jupiter, the moons Io, Europa and Ganymede have orbital periods in the ratio 1:2:4. At Saturn, a variety of resonances are seen, including 1:1, 1:2 and 3:4. Distant moons can be modelled in this way, but Asteroid Maker cannot replicate the bizarre variety of orbits that these moons possess.

For those that wish to use Asteroid Maker to model moons anyway, this can be done once the proper conversion factors are worked out.

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Post #56by bdm » 20.10.2005, 11:36

Version 1.4 has been uploaded here and at CML.

Changes:
* Improved accuracy of inclination modelling by splitting asteroids into three inclination classes
* Fixed range of NORMINV function calls to prevent #VALUE! errors
* Added Rotate sheet
* Corrected albedo and colour settings for default textures where the correct values are known

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Post #57by ANDREA » 20.10.2005, 13:41

Thank you bdm.
Waiting for the next release with double distances units possibility, now I'll try your new 1.4. :wink:
Bye soon

Andrea :D
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Post #58by buggs_moran » 21.10.2005, 02:30

I had some luck around a planet with 1.1

Image

My orbit timing was not correct, but it was more of a proof of concept, I need to work out the kinks and really want to play with the albeido. Plus, 10000 object / 400 ateroids per run = a lot of work... My settings are below, AU doesn't matter if you set the central star to be a planet :wink:. Distances are converted to km...

Image
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bdm
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Post #59by bdm » 21.10.2005, 10:21

It is easy to add an asteroid belt to a planet with correct orbital periods. Version 1.4 of Asteroid Maker is needed, and the planet must have an existing moon. (If the planet has no moon, the orbital parameters for the moon must be worked out in advance).

1. Enter the Semimajor Axis and the Period of the moon into the Outer Planet section.
2. The estimated star mass will have a figure for the mass of the planet that calculates correct orbits.
3. Copy this figure into the space for Estimated Star Mass. (Note that Copy-Paste will copy the formula, not the value, so copy from the spreadsheet cell to a text editor, then copy from the text editor to the destination cell.) Now you can work in the kilometre/days unit system that moon orbits requires.
4. To bound your moons, set up the Outer Planet and Inner planet distances.
5. The period for the outer and inner planets is not needed except as part of a sanity check, so you can skip this part. If you wish to enter it to remove the errors, the formula is period = SQRT(semimajor Axis ^ 3 / Mass).
6. Set the name of the central star to the planet.
7. For moons, the ascending node and inclination must both be set to zero (moon inclinations are specified in relation to the planet's equator).
8. For realism, you should disable all asteroid moons, so set the following fields to zero: Chance of tidelocked binary asteroid, number with 1 or 2 moons, number with 2 moons.

Now you should be ready to generate moons.

Here is a sample image showing moons around Pluto (ANDREA's project). All dots in the image are moons (I turned the stars off using one of my impressive superpowers).

Image

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Post #60by bdm » 22.10.2005, 00:30

I have uploaded version 1.5.

Version 1.5 fixes a bug I discovered in 1.4 with the Mean Longitude for inner planet trojans. If an asteroid was defined as an inner planet trojan, it received a random Mean Longitude instead of the planet's Mean Longitude +/- 60 degrees; and the asteroid before the Trojan got the +/- 60 degree offset instead.


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