New Celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1 Version for Download

[Boux]

Hi there,
I have read the thread and made the suggested changes in both *.ccp files.
Make goes on coming with a zillion errors, does not build and exits.
This under Mandriva 2006 with gcc-4.0.1
Tried all the tricks to make Mandriva use various gcc-3nn versions instead of 4nn with no luck.
I cannot remove gcc-4 from the system because the kernel (2.6.12-12.6 compiled for multimedia low-latency and bigmem), the nvidia driver, kde and xorg rely on it.
Removing it would likely nuke my system for good.

[t00fri]

...
confirmed

1) flickering and lack of rendering of deep sky add-ons under WINDOWS only. All works fine under Linux.
...

fixed

Bye Fridger

[Toti]

Hi there,
I have read the thread and made the suggested changes in both *.ccp files.
Make goes on coming with a zillion errors, does not build and exits.
This under Mandriva 2006 with gcc-4.0.1
Tried all the tricks to make Mandriva use various gcc-3nn versions instead of 4nn with no luck.
I cannot remove gcc-4 from the system because the kernel (2.6.12-12.6 compiled for multimedia low-latency and bigmem), the nvidia driver, kde and xorg rely on it.
Removing it would likely nuke my system for good.

Boux,

Could you please post the error messages?

[Boux]

Hi, Toti,
I am downloading the tarball again, just in case there is something wrong with the current one.
I will then attempt again to build it.
I will then post an abstract of the error messages copied/pasted from the Konsole so that you get the picture.
There are hundreds lines in the log!
I'll be back soon

[Boux]

Ok, does not build.
Here are some sample errors (sorry for the long post):

Code: Select all

make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/data'
Making all in doc
make[5]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc'
Making all in .
make[6]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc'
make[6]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
make[6]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc'
Making all in celestia
make[6]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc/celestia'
/usr/bin/meinproc --check --cache index.cache.bz2 ./index.docbook
Making all in .
make[7]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc/celestia'
make[7]: Nothing to be done for `all-am'.
make[7]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc/celestia'
make[6]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc/celestia'
make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde/doc'
make[5]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/kde'
if g++ -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../.. -I../.. -I.. -I/usr/lib/qt3//include   -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT  -D_REENTRANT  -Wnon-virtual-dtor -Wno-long-long -Wundef -ansi -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -Wcast-align -Wconversion -Wchar-subscripts -Wall -W -Wpointer-arith -Wwrite-strings -DNDEBUG -DNO_DEBUG -O2 -Wformat-security -Wmissing-format-attribute -fno-exceptions -fno-check-new -fno-common  -O2 -Wall -ffast-math -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -DCELX  -MT kdeapp.moc.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/kdeapp.moc.Tpo" \
  -c -o kdeapp.moc.o `test -f 'kdeapp.moc.cpp' || echo './'`kdeapp.moc.cpp; \
then mv -f ".deps/kdeapp.moc.Tpo" ".deps/kdeapp.moc.Po"; \
else rm -f ".deps/kdeapp.moc.Tpo"; exit 1; \
fi
../../celengine/orbit.h:19: warning: 'class Orbit' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/orbit.h:35: warning: 'class EllipticalOrbit' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/orbit.h:62: warning: 'class OrbitSampleProc' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/orbit.h:77: warning: 'class CachingOrbit' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/rendcontext.h:56: warning: 'class RenderContext' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/rendcontext.h:88: warning: 'class FixedFunctionRenderContext' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/rendcontext.h:104: warning: 'class VP_FP_RenderContext' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/rendcontext.h:116: warning: 'class VP_Combiner_RenderContext' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/rendcontext.h:128: warning: 'class GLSL_RenderContext' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/execenv.h:20: warning: 'class ExecutionEnvironment' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
../../celengine/command.h:38: warning: unused parameter 't'
../../celengine/command.h:38: warning: unused parameter 'dt'
kcelbookmarkowner.h:24: warning: 'class KCelBookmarkOwner' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
kcelbookmarkowner.h:28: warning: unused parameter 'type'
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:69: warning: 'struct QUBuffer' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:77: warning: 'struct QUType' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:104: warning: 'struct QUType_Null' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:287: warning: 'struct QUType_enum' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:307: warning: 'struct QUType_ptr' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:326: warning: 'struct QUType_iface' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:345: warning: 'struct QUType_idisp' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:364: warning: 'struct QUType_bool' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:383: warning: 'struct QUType_int' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:403: warning: 'struct QUType_double' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:423: warning: 'struct QUType_charstar' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:444: warning: 'struct QUType_QString' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucomextra_p.h:65: warning: 'struct QUType_QVariant' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucomextra_p.h:87: warning: 'struct QUType_varptr' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
if g++ -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../.. -I../.. -I.. -I/usr/lib/qt3//include   -DQT_THREAD_SUPPORT  -D_REENTRANT  -Wnon-virtual-dtor -Wno-long-long -Wundef -ansi -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -Wcast-align -Wconversion -Wchar-subscripts -Wall -W -Wpointer-arith -Wwrite-strings -DNDEBUG -DNO_DEBUG -O2 -Wformat-security -Wmissing-format-attribute -fno-exceptions -fno-check-new -fno-common  -O2 -Wall -ffast-math -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -DCELX  -MT eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.o -MD -MP -MF ".deps/eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.Tpo" \
  -c -o eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.o `test -f 'eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.cpp' || echo './'`eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.cpp; \
then mv -f ".deps/eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.Tpo" ".deps/eclipsefinderdlgbase.uic.Po"; \

...
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:69: warning: 'struct QUBuffer' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:77: warning: 'struct QUType' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:104: warning: 'struct QUType_Null' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:287: warning: 'struct QUType_enum' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:307: warning: 'struct QUType_ptr' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:326: warning: 'struct QUType_iface' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:345: warning: 'struct QUType_idisp' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:364: warning: 'struct QUType_bool' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:383: warning: 'struct QUType_int' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:403: warning: 'struct QUType_double' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:423: warning: 'struct QUType_charstar' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucom_p.h:444: warning: 'struct QUType_QString' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucomextra_p.h:65: warning: 'struct QUType_QVariant' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor
/usr/lib/qt3//include/private/qucomextra_p.h:87: warning: 'struct QUType_varptr' has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor

[b]etc... etc...
and now the tail:[/b]

make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk/data'
make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk/data'
make[4]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk'
make[5]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk'
make[5]: Nothing to be done for `install-exec-am'.
make[5]: Nothing to be done for `install-data-am'.
make[5]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk'
make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk'
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia/gtk'
make[3]: Entering directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia'
/bin/sh ../../libtool --silent --mode=link --tag=CXX g++  -Wnon-virtual-dtor -Wno-long-long -Wundef -ansi -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -Wcast-align -Wconversion -Wchar-subscripts -Wall -W -Wpointer-arith -Wwrite-strings -DNDEBUG -DNO_DEBUG -O2 -Wformat-security -Wmissing-format-attribute -fno-exceptions -fno-check-new -fno-common  -O2 -Wall -ffast-math -fexpensive-optimizations -fomit-frame-pointer -DCELX   -llualib -llua -o celestia -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L/usr/lib/qt3//lib -L/usr/lib  -R /usr/lib -R /usr/lib/qt3//lib -R /usr/X11R6/lib celestiacore.o configfile.o destination.o eclipsefinder.o favorites.o imagecapture.o url.o celx.o   -lqt-mt  -lz -lpng -lz -lm -lXext -lX11  -lSM -lICE -lpthread -lkdecore -lkdeui -lkio  kde/libkdegui.a ../celengine/libcelengine.a ../celtxf/libceltxf.a ../cel3ds/libcel3ds.a ../celmath/libcelmath.a ../celutil/libcelutil.a -lpng -ljpeg -lGLU -lGL -lz  -lSM -lICE  -lm   -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXmu -lXi -lXext -lX11 -lm -lz  -lGL
libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.la'
make[3]: *** [celestia] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia'
make[2]: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src/celestia'
make[1]: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/zorglub/downloads/celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1/src'
make: *** [install-recursive] Error 1
[root@localhost celestia-1.4.0pre-FT1.1]#


As you can see, a load of "has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor" errors.
The code above shows maybe only 2-3% of all the errors!

[Toti]

Boux,

Those are only warnings (although they do have a point) They aren't related to our code modifications.
The only error I see in your excerpt is that libGL is out of reach, and this is what interrupts the compilation.

[t00fri]

Boux,

libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.la'

Your OpenGL installation is not right or incomplete.

This is INDEPENDENT of FT1.1. Also as Toti said, these Warnings are NOT releated to FT1.1. It's stuff that we have since years!

Cheers,
Fridger

[fsgregs]

Fridger and Toti:

Thank you for releasing FT 1.1 It really is excellent and a major improvement in Celestia. We are all very grateful to both of you for taking the reins of the project in the absence of Chris.

A few comments if I may:

1. Did I read correctly above that you have fixed the flickering and disappearing nebula? That's GREAT! Will you be posting that fix soon? I ask because I use LOTS of nebula in my work and ...

2. If you get a chance, could you remove the comma that appears in the date display? The year is not "2,005". The display has been present for a long time now (months). A minor point only.

3. The Milky Way haze from the viewpoint of Earth is pretty, but in a way, just a bit bright. I have no idea what the Milky Way would really look like if we got above the atmosphere, but I suspect it might not be quite so bright. Maybe I'm wrong and it is that bright, but if there is a way to reduce the brightness of the "0%" value in the code, then we could all pick the level of brightness we are comfortable with.

I am really ticked off at my system. I have a 1.6 GHz P IV with 1 GB of RAM and I just bought a new Nvidia 6600 GT video card. INstalled the latest drivers. I am getting only 25 - 40 fps when viewing anywhere in the solar system using the default installation of FT 1.1 with no extras or high res textures. Selden and others have reported 60 - 90 fps. What gives? (Selden has a 6600 GT also I think). Is there some tweaking to my driver settings I need to do?

Any advice would be appreciated. If you could release the nebula flicker fix ASAP, that would be great!!!

Frank

[John Van Vliet]

i do beleave thea the "has virtual functions but non-virtual destructor"
warning is from the class having a decleared destructor when it dose not nead one ? maby ?
and has been around for some time --very low on the list of things to find and fix

[Boux]

Boux,

Those are only warnings (although they do have a point) They aren't related to our code modifications.
The only error I see in your excerpt is that libGL is out of reach, and this is what interrupts the compilation.

libtool: link: cannot find the library `/usr/X11R6/lib/libGL.la'

Your OpenGL installation is not right or incomplete.
This is INDEPENDENT of FT1.1. Also as Toti said, these Warnings are NOT releated to FT1.1. It's stuff that we have since years!

Yep, I did spot this libGL thing and I discovered something wrong with my OpenGl setup. I get a segfault at the end of the GlxInfo verbose output.
I will look into this first.

Don't worry, t00fri, I know that the problem is on my end , not with the code

[t00fri]

Frank,

...
1. Did I read correctly above that you have fixed the flickering and disappearing nebula? That's GREAT! Will you be posting that fix soon? I ask because I use LOTS of nebula in my work and ...

Yes.

With such massive code additions|modifications like in FT1.1 (relative to CVS), there will be clearly several "dot" releases necessary before all little issues are fixed.

And this will take its time despite your CD plans etc...

Will you be posting that fix soon?

I really don't appreciate very much being bugged by you (and only you) continuously via PM and in public to speed up our FT development...We are obviously not sleeping...

We will have to collect several such issues each time before we can ask people to download again 25MB ...Also doing such testing cycles for Windows, Linux-KDE,Linux-gnome and Linux-Gtk IN PARALLEL needs high concentration and careful syncing of the code base etc.

2. If you get a chance, could you remove the comma that appears in the date display? The year is not "2,005". The display has been present for a long time now (months). A minor point only.

OK no problem

3. The Milky Way haze from the viewpoint of Earth is pretty, but in a way, just a bit bright. I have no idea what the Milky Way would really look like if we got above the atmosphere, but I suspect it might not be quite so bright. Maybe I'm wrong and it is that bright, but if there is a way to reduce the brightness of the "0%" value in the code, then we could all pick the level of brightness we are comfortable with.

This is more tricky, since many people use different (and often incorrect) adjustments of brightness and contrast in their monitors. Here I would only want to take action if more people complain. I actually brightened the Milky way display a bit in FT1.1 since with four different tested high-quality monitors (TFT and analog) brightness was definitely too low. There is no clearcut way to normalize the brightness profile as long as the observer is located INSIDE the galaxy. For that reason you may have noticed, the galaxy's absolute (i.e. distance independent) magnitude is displayed as long as the view is from inside the galaxy.

I am really ticked off at my system. I have a 1.6 GHz P IV with 1 GB of RAM and I just bought a new Nvidia 6600 GT video card. INstalled the latest drivers. I am getting only 25 - 40 fps when viewing anywhere in the solar system using the default installation of FT 1.1 with no extras or high res textures. Selden and others have reported 60 - 90 fps. What gives? (Selden has a 6600 GT also I think). Is there some tweaking to my driver settings I need to do?

That appears definitely low, yet your CPU speed (only 1.6GHz!) may be simply insufficient for an efficient cooperation with the card's GPU. With my 3.2 GHz P iV, 3GB Ram, I get ~100 fps throughout (without extra add-ons).

Actually before upgrading my machine, I used the SAME FX5900Ultra/256MB card with my old PIII 1GHz with a fps performance that was at least a factor 2 lower than with my present 3.2 GHz CPU!

Do you perhaps use the 2m stars?? Also any amount of AntiAlias can dramatically lower the fps rate.

Bye Fridger

[PlutonianEmpire]

In the version just before this, i encountered extremely slow framerates whenever i have galaxies turned on...

[Boux]

Holy Cow guys!
It works now
The problem was with the Nvidia driver which for some reason did not install properly.
No "libGL.la" created in "/user/lib/"
A straight re-install did not work, still missing library.
So I used the nvidia-installer to completely remove the driver.
Reboot to clean the mess and temps and land on the cli, then clean install of the driver (7676 btw).
And guess what? The library was there, sitting in "/user/lib"
I had then just to ln it from "usr/X11R6/lib/", re-launch make and I was done.
Hope this may help some people with same issue out there.
Now I will play and mess around with it a little bit before re-installing all the extras.
Great program and great support here. I'm a happy camper

[t00fri]

In the version just before this, i encountered extremely slow framerates whenever i have galaxies turned on...

Well, right now FT1 and FT1.1 use 10600 galaxies by default, which is a LOT, despite our advanced culling technique. Of course, for people less interested in galaxies, I can always release a strongly reduced deepsky.dsc file with <~ 1000 galaxies only, corresponding to a magnitude cutoff around 13.

But clearly this is much less fun: The famous Stephan's quintet would only show ONE member instead of five. Galaxy clusters would be entirely absent etc. The conceptual advantage of the present deepsky.dsc file is also that it simply includes ALL galaxies of the revised NGC/IC cataloge! So it will happen very rarely that Celestia will not know a particular galaxy...

My feeling is that people planning to run /many/ add-ons, 2m stars AND 10600 galaxies need a fairly modern machine and a decent graphics card.

++++++++++++++++++
One of the urgent GUI projects ahead of us, would finally be a load facility that allows (without restarting Celestia!) to load and unload specialized catalogs of objects for particular display purposes.
++++++++++++++++++

Bye Fridger

[Guckytos]

Okay now some fps values from a lower end machine.
Only FT 1.1 is running with no extra addons. fps are taken after target destination has been reached and about 3 seconds have passed.

Celestia startup: Earth 25.91 fps
Beta Ari B 25.6 fps
Sol 32.5 fps
Saturn 24.2 fps
Shaula 59 fps

[t00fri]

Fridger and Toti:

...

2. If you get a chance, could you remove the comma that appears in the date display? The year is not "2,005". The display has been present for a long time now (months). A minor point only.

...

Frank

Frank,

The incorrect date display is (once more) NOT Celestia's fault, but rather due to an inapproriate configuration of your computer.

The 2,005 "feature" is correspondingly absent both under Linux and also in my own Windows display.

Here is what you had better done:

Open:

Control->Regional and Language Options->Regional Options -> Customize:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In that dialog you got to select 'Digit grouping' without any comma or dot.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


The date display in Celestia's canvas uses a systems routine that is correspondingly configured via the Control panel!

Bye Fridger

[fsgregs]

deleted

[t00fri]

Come-on everybody:

do you want me to dim the milky way brightness? Nothing easier than that...Let me know.

Bye Fridger

[Boux]

The Milky Way is OK for me.
I don't see any reason to hardwire it dimmer or brighter.
One can adjust to one's taste very easily playing either within the os or the monitor settings.
I think the current rendering is a good compromise given the many kind of different displays out there.
It can be adjusted with the AbsMag parameter in deepsky.dsc anyway, right?

[t00fri]

Dear Frank,

Dear Fridger:


I'm stumped!! I can make the comma go away in the date display
by changing the regional settings in the control panel, but the
comma also goes away in all numbers, including the distance and
speed displays. That is not good.

I don't see why this syntax is not good. It's a perfectly correct
mathematical representation. The problem is that Chris changed
those routines from 1.4.0pre6 (> 1 year ago) to the recent CVS
code (including DrJoe's patches!). I can only check the CVS code,
which uses --as I stated earlier-- a systems time display
routine. So nothing for us to fiddle here! Toti and I have never
even touched that stuff.

This amounts both in Linux and my Windows display to this output
which I am personally happy with:



Anybody else complaining??

Also, I had not changed my regional display in the past. In fact,
when I run 1.4.0pre 6 on my computer, the date has NO comma,
while the distance and speed displays do, just as they should.
Obviously, there is something in the code that exempted the date
from using a comma in pre 6, that is no longer doing that in
subsequent builds.

Could you please accept that during the past year the respective
code was throroughly changed by Chris (<==DrJoe's patches)
between 1.4.0pre6 and CVS on which FT1.1 is footing!

I am reluctant to change it back because of a /comma/.

I really don't appreciate very much being bugged
by you (and only you) continuously via PM and in public to speed
up our FT development...We are obviously not sleeping...
...

You serve in a very demanding professional capacity at CERN,

While I indeed worked at CERN/Geneva/Ch for 7 years a long time ago, my laboratory is actually DESY/Hamburg/D ...

http://www.desy.de/desy-th/members.html

...
I have been trying to rush you to fix the expected bugs in the
project because your work is worthy of being seen by everyone
everywhere, without bugs, as soon as possible. I have always
admired quality in people, and in their work. My philosophy is
simple. We all just go around on Earth once. It might as well be
the best we can make it. FT 1.1 is a major improvement to
Celestia. We have you and Toti to thank. I simply want my
students, and all the kids who may benefit from my Educational
Activities, to enjoy the galaxies you both have created.

While all this sounds fine in principle, your arguments are
intrinsically NOT tied to a particularly NARROW time scale. It rather
seems to me (excuse me if I'm wrong here) that you presumably
have a (commercial?) agreement with a CD publisher who is
getting impatient (rather than those many American school kids
that are to profit from your Celestia CD, which their schools are
supposed to buy?). At least I do not know of any publishers who
produce CD's for purely idealistic reasons.

In my latest post, I assumed that since you have already fixed
some of the bugs in FT 1.1, it might be a simple matter for you or
Toti to post just the new exe file, rather than compiling the entire
download again. Then, in the next week or two, you could
recompile the complete package.

There are people who apparently get confused by such practice
(Daniel...) as the release of FT1 has clearly demonstrated. As a
matter of principle, I do see NO reasons whatsoever for rushing,
notably in case money is involved. If this is all incorrect, please
accept my sincere apologies...

Without FT 1.1, my alternative is to include 1.4.0pre6 with my CD
project. It works well and has no real bugs, but ... it does not
have your new work! Potentially thousands of school kids will be
cheated if they cannot see those 10,000 galaxies in full color
splendor.

Again if we talk about a non-commercial venture, I cannot see why
your thousands of school kids cannot wait a little longer (and get
better quality in exchange)...

Bye Fridger