2001 Nostalgia (New space station done)

Cham · Post #1by **Cham** » 27.09.2005, 03:32

After the Discovery, I'm planning to rebuilt the 2001 space station which may need a refreshment. So I've selected some pictures directly from the movie. Beware ! The pictures linked below are very large and about 500KB each ! Click to enlarge and enjoy ! ;-)

Cham · Post #2by **Cham** » 29.09.2005, 23:41

Here's the actual state of my 2001 Space Station. About 70% done.

BrainDead · Post #3by **BrainDead** » 29.09.2005, 23:51

Martin,

Not to criticize here, but why on Earth would you be re-working the
Space Station V model when we already have (in my opinion)
a spectacular version of that model from Jestr?

Please don't mis-understand here... I'm just curious as to why you'd
put yourself to all of that work.

Curious and...

Cham · Post #4by **Cham** » 29.09.2005, 23:57

BrainDead wrote:why on Earth would you be re-working the
Space Station V model when we already have (in my opinion)
a spectacular version of that model from Jestr?
Curious and...

Because I think we may have something better. The actual version is very nice, I agree with you, but it has some defects. First : the ring shows some polygons on its exterior side, and I hate that. Second : there are visible "holes" on the unfinished parts. Third : The red structure shows some "polygonal" parts too, and feel a bit crude to my taste. Fourth : The dock is a bit crude inside. And last : I want a high resolution model with full 3D details, so we can take close snapshots.

BrainDead · Post #5by **BrainDead** » 30.09.2005, 00:04

Cham wrote:Because I think we may have something better.

Ah, okay... Now I understand. Please bear in mind that I'm still using my
limited pc (as described below) and I see NONE of the defects you described.

Not to worry though. If you create a different version, I suppose that's good
for everyone. :wink:

Thanks.

Post #6by **ElChristou** » 30.09.2005, 00:10

BrainDead wrote:...and I see NONE of the defects you described...

and you see all mine on LB7?? (jocking :wink:

)

Cham, I love what I see, we are really near the original... Can wait to see it around my earth...

BrainDead · Post #7by **BrainDead** » 30.09.2005, 00:14

Oniisan · Post #8by **Oniisan** » 30.09.2005, 22:45

Looking forward to the new Station, already enjoying the new Discovery and Pod, thanks!

Any chance the windows will be lit up in the shadows? I saw one model USS Excelsior with lights and windows that were illuminated when in the dark. I don't recall who made that one or how that was accomplished.

And another per chance, is there an Aries 1B in the works too? :-)

I have one of those, but it has some serious problems (see-through walls, low polygon count, etc.) Usable, but not "pretty" :-)

Always glad to see new updates to the models.

Cham · Post #9by **Cham** » 30.09.2005, 23:35

Yes, the windows are full of light. See the actual state of the station :

Cham · Post #10by **Cham** » 01.10.2005, 17:27

My 2001 space station is completed. Download link below. Zip file is 2.3 MB. Please, I'll appreciate any feedback on it. What is your FPS and do you have FSAA enabled (antialiasing from the video card) ?

Of course, any crittics are welcome, and you are free to prefer the old version !

Because of the small 3D details, I think this new version is nice only with FSAA enabled.

http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Cham/Station.zip

Dollan · Post #11by **Dollan** » 01.10.2005, 20:01

The model looks great! But is this antialiasing the reason why the model, viewed at certain angles and distances (usually close up) will go from the standard shaded to almost emissive in appearance? I'm running an Nvidia GeForce 2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro card with 30mb of video memory, so I'm way low on the totem pole....

Regardless, I love the look of this model. It is an excellent addition to your pod and the Discovery. Are you planning on doing any other 2001 models? Or other models from the whole series of books?

Thanks for the effort and work on this!

...John...

Cham · Post #12by **Cham** » 01.10.2005, 20:13

Dollan wrote:The model looks great! But is this antialiasing the reason why the model, viewed at certain angles and distances (usually close up) will go from the standard shaded to almost emissive in appearance? I'm running an Nvidia GeForce 2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro card with 30mb of video memory, so I'm way low on the totem pole....

Sorry, I don't understand. The emissive parts are just the windows, and some parts inside both docks. Antialiasing (FSAA) is a modern video card "blurring" process which smooths out all the lines and removes all the "jaggies" and pixelisations on screen. With FSAA, all edges appears much smoother and natural.

Dollan wrote:Are you planning on doing any other 2001 models? Or other models from the whole series of books?
...John...

I miss the Aries. So maybe I'll try it later, but this one is harder to do.

jestr · Post #13by **jestr** » 01.10.2005, 20:20

It looks really great to me Martin,the 2001 models look amazing now,cheers Jestr

Post #14by **selden** » 01.10.2005, 20:45

Dollan wrote:But is this antialiasing the reason why the model, viewed at certain angles and distances (usually close up) will go from the standard shaded to almost emissive in appearance? I'm running an Nvidia GeForce 2 GTS/GeForce2 Pro card with 30mb of video memory, so I'm way low on the totem pole....

Antialiasing is something you have to turn on "manually" -- either by specifying the value in Display Properties or by setting it to "Application Controlled" and setting the value for AntialiasingSamples in celestia.cfg. At any rate, if your card supports it, antialiasing should minimize the "jaggies" that can be seen along straight edges.

There is a bug somewhere (maybe in Celestia, maybe not) most often seen on older cards that seems to cause Mesh objects that are in orbit around a planet to glow as if they were "Emissive true." Something similar is visible on my GF6600: Mesh objects in orbit around a planet are illuminated much more brightly than they're illuminated when they're in their own orbit around the Sun.

Also, when he first implemented the code to draw interpenetrating objects properly, Chris mentioned that there are some "pathological states" that won't be drawn correctly.

I'm guessing that one of these problems might be what you're seeing.

Cham · Post #15by **Cham** » 01.10.2005, 20:48

Selden,

how is the model on your machine ? What FPS ? I guess you have FSAA enabled ? Any problem ?

Post #16by **selden** » 01.10.2005, 21:07

Cham,

I'm getting about 20fps with antialiasing set to 8xS, anisotropic filtering set to 16x, and "Image settings" set to "quality."

There seem to be lots of variables affecting the fps, though. 20fps is with the Earth in the background. I've seen it as high as 30fps if there are only stars in the background.

Other relevant info:

1GB 3.4GHz P4-550, Win XP Pro SP2
128MB GF 6600 GT, ForceWare v77.77
Celestia v1.4.0pre6
resolution: 1600x1200

Dollan · Post #17by **Dollan** » 01.10.2005, 21:47

There is a bug somewhere (maybe in Celestia, maybe not) most often seen on older cards that seems to cause Mesh objects that are in orbit around a planet to glow as if they were "Emissive true." Something similar is visible on my GF6600: Mesh objects in orbit around a planet are illuminated much more brightly than they're illuminated when they're in their own orbit around the Sun.

Also, when he first implemented the code to draw interpenetrating objects properly, Chris mentioned that there are some "pathological states" that won't be drawn correctly.

I'm guessing that one of these problems might be what you're seeing.

Yup, this sounds exactly like the problem I have. But it is a rare problem for me, so I really don't quibble over it much. Thanks for the information, Selden!

And Cham, I'm glad it's a Celestia bug and not something with your model. So, considering what I'm running, I think you could say that the model works as well as possible on my system!

...John...

Vincent · Post #18by **Vincent** » 01.10.2005, 22:14

I have the same problem with ElChristou's Liberty Bell model. See my post :
http://celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7888&start=58

configuration : Win XP / GeForce 4 MX 440 SE

Vincent · Post #19by **Vincent** » 02.10.2005, 09:56

Dollan wrote:The model looks great! But is this antialiasing the reason why the model, viewed at certain angles and distances (usually close up) will go from the standard shaded to almost emissive in appearance?

In fact, I just found out that the model becomes "emissive" as soon as the planet it refers to appears on screen (while using the "Open GL Vertex program" and/or "Nvidia combiners" modes).

For example, Cham 2001 Space Station goes illuminated in appearance as soon as you make the earth appear in the background...

Does this bug appear in the same conditions on your system Dollan ?

maxim · Post #20by **maxim** » 02.10.2005, 12:54

Some general critics:

You should give the whole thing a bluish tint (also the red is blue tintend). I know, they invented it to create more atmosphere for the movie, but thus it's now part of the space stations 'style'.

All the grooves are not only grooved, but also of darker color.

It seems that lack of detail on the axis is more obvious than on the rings. I refer to the cone parts, and the distribution of the ring grooves. The difference is even obvious looking at the small pics in your post.

The entrance should be darker.

The scaffold of the second ring is more complex in the original.

maxim