Using a cel:url as a start.cel

[fsgregs]

I have downloaded the latest cvs build of 1.4.0 and it has some great features, including the ability to specify a different celestia.cfg file to launch upon opening, via a command line prompt. To use a command line prompt in Windows, I want to create a shortcut to the Celestia application, then insert the command lines into the shortcut target. I know what to do there. However, when I do that, the program will open using the new cfg file, and use whatever start.cel script I specify in the config file.

In that vein, I have a cel:url that I saved with the [Ctrl + Insert] keys, that I want to use as my opening cel script. When I launch the program via a command line, I want the program to immediately open and follow the cel:url. Celestia immediately goes to the coordinates and the program is set to whatever is in the cel:url. I tried just pasting the cel:url into a blank start.cel, but it doesn't work.

How do I save a cel:url hyperlink so that it becomes the start.cel file? If that is not possible, how do I insert a cel:url into a start.cel script so that Celestia executes the cel:url?

I have lots of different cfg files and opening scenes that I will be using in my revised educational activities, so I really don't want to have to spend days actually writing cel scripts to open Celestia to all of those exact coordinates.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Frank

[Vincent]

Hello Frank,

- In Celestia, press [Ctrl] + [c] to copy a cel:// script line command.
- Open notepad, write these few lines :

Code: Select all


{
seturl { url
"PASTE YOUR LINE HERE" }
}



- Make shure to not forget the

Code: Select all

{

and

Code: Select all

}

at the beginning and the end of the script.

- Then paste your line command that you have copied in Celestia at the place specified above ([Ctrl] + [v])
- Save your document as a star.cel file

It should work this way...

[fsgregs]

Vincent:



Perfect. It works fine. Thank you.

Two more little questions. In the new 1.4.0 cvs build, the program always opens with galaxy brightness set to minimum. I always have to press the ) key several times to brighten up the Milky Way. When I close the program and reopen it, galaxy brightness has not been saved, and I have to press the ) key several times again.

Is there a line command that can be inserted in the cfg file or the start.cel to set galaxy brightness higher by default?

Also, the galaxy color in 1.4.0 is nice, but is a bit too lavender/purple for my taste. Has a cfg command or start.cel command been programed into the new cvs build yet to adjust the color of galaxies? If so, could you list the command here?

Thanks

Frank

[selden]

Frank,

Chris is in the middle of implementing the new galaxy code. Saving of brightness levels and setting the color properly are incomplete, for example. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a while before they're fixed

[t00fri]

Frank,

Chris is in the middle of implementing the new galaxy code. Saving of brightness levels and setting the color properly are incomplete, for example. Unfortunately, it'll probably be a while before they're fixed

Selden,

I really wonder what you mean precisely with "in the middle of implementing "? .

I actually have completed quite sophisticated and extensive magnitude and coloration code as well as a new quality level of galaxy templates and lots of bug fixes.

But...I have given up for the time being sending the code to Chris, since I find the level of communication inacceptable meanwhile. Sorry...

So, unfortunately, I tend to develop for myself...it seems.

Bye Fridger

[selden]

Fridger,

I'm aware of your problems communicating with Chris

By "in the middle of implementing" I meant that Chris has uploaded some Galaxy and Nebula code to SourceForge, but that several related DSC changes have not been uploaded. (I don't know if any code for them has been witten.) For example, Celestia does not save Galaxy brightness, and it does not include code to enable and disable OpenCluster locations and labels.

I understood that you were waiting for Chris to upload your changes (perhaps with some additional modifications by him) to the CVS archive. I didn't mean to imply that he was writing all that code himself, but rather that he has not finished changing what's on SourceForge.

Am I mistaken? Are you now planning to upload those changes yourself? Personally, I think that might be a reasonable thing to do.

[t00fri]

Fridger,

I'm aware of your problems communicating with Chris

By "in the middle of implementing" I meant that Chris has uploaded some Galaxy and Nebula code to SourceForge, but that several related DSC changes have not been uploaded. (I don't know if any code for them has been witten.) For example, Celestia does not save Galaxy brightness, and it does not include code to enable and disable OpenCluster locations and labels.

I understood that you were waiting for Chris to upload your changes (perhaps with some additional modifications by him) to the CVS archive. I didn't mean to imply that he was writing all that code himself, but rather that he has not finished changing what's on SourceForge.

Am I mistaken? Are you now planning to upload those changes yourself? Personally, I think that might be a reasonable thing to do.

Probably you (and Hank) are right.

OK, I will go on tuning until the weekend and then CVS-upload all my stuff, which meanwhile really looks quite amazing I think. I have checked hundreds of galaxies against individual photographs and even M51 (Whirlpool) looks nice! As a basis for HSV coloration I extracted the Hue values across typical spiral profiles and fitted them by some appropriate function. The ellipticals are dispalyed redder of course (corresponding to their higher age!) Since I recoded the elliptical galaxies they also look quite acceptable.

A crucial prerequisite for trustworthy magnitude rendition was an effectively simple but nevertheless tricky correction for the excessive template galaxy brightening, if they are viewed about "edge-on".

A real pity is that (despite his many promises) Chris did not get around since > one month to implement Toti's octree template class along with my octree optimizations. This way my present new code is unduely slow ( a factor 3-5 slower than it had to be!!!). I don't want to commit Toti's octree template since it's not yet finished and I have not coded it...

Bye Fridger

[t00fri]

Perhaps it's also of some interest that since a while I develop the galaxy code /in parallel/ for Linux and Windows (using VC++.net 2003). So I could easily release Celestia.exe updates for Windows, but honestly I don't have enough time to deal with unexperienced people's upcoming problems..."How do I install two versions of Celestia next to each other" etc

If someone has an idea, let me know.

Bye Fridger

[fsgregs]

Fridger:

Thank you and all the other developers who have been dramatically improving Celestia. I, and hundreds of my students, are so very grateful to you for your tireless labor of love. Thousands of Celestia users are also. Without your work, the program would be just a shadow of itself. I mean it. Thanks for it all.

If you could upload your improved galaxy changes to cvs at the end of the weekend (or so), that would be wonderful. If that occurs, pLease do me a service. I do not have Linux. If there is any way to compile that latest version of the cvs build with your changes enclosed as a Windows exe file, PLEASE try to do so, or perhaps send an email to someone who could. I have no idea how hard it is to do, or if someone else could do it easily, but ...most of us will not be able to see or benefit from all the new work you've done, unless we can get a Windows exe. For better or worse, probably 98% of all Celestia users run the Windows version.

Anyway, I am very anxiously awaiting your new galaxy rendering and any other changes you've implemented.

Frank

[Guckytos]

Perhaps it's also of some interest that since a while I develop the galaxy code /in parallel/ for Linux and Windows (using VC++.net 2003). So I could easily release Celestia.exe updates for Windows, but honestly I don't have enough time to deal with unexperienced people's upcoming problems..."How do I install two versions of Celestia next to each other" etc Wink

If someone has an idea, let me know.

Well i have an idea

Since those are "unofficial" releases, since only Chris seems to make the official ones, why not just tell people so. And hide the Celestia.exe files somewhere where only community members find it/have access to it. And strictly tell people to not bother you if it ain't a real bug.

But it would be really good to have the new versions, so they can be tested on a broad variety of windows systems and find eventually some bugs.

Regards,

Guckytos

[t00fri]

Fridger:

Thank you and all the other developers who have been dramatically improving Celestia. I, and hundreds of my students, are so very grateful to you for your tireless labor of love. Thousands of Celestia users are also. Without your work, the program would be just a shadow of itself. I mean it. Thanks for it all.

If you could upload your improved galaxy changes to cvs at the end of the weekend (or so), that would be wonderful. If that occurs, pLease do me a service. I do not have Linux. If there is any way to compile that latest version of the cvs build with your changes enclosed as a Windows exe file, PLEASE try to do so, or perhaps send an email to someone who could. I have no idea how hard it is to do, or if someone else could do it easily, but ...most of us will not be able to see or benefit from all the new work you've done, unless we can get a Windows exe. For better or worse, probably 98% of all Celestia users run the Windows version.

Frank,

thanks for your acknowledgement...

I am not sure whether you read my few lines above your post that address the real problem with releasing CVS updates for Windows.

I continuously recompile Celestia besides Linux also for Windows, which takes me only a few seconds. Depending on whether I use my notebook for coding or my desktop machine, I write Celestia code under Windows XP or Linux, respectively. It's all the same, really...

You said that 98% of the Celestia users employ Windows. Yet unfortunately also ~98% of those users seem to have very little knowledge about how their operating system works...Large amounts of those people will then start downloading these Celestia.exe files and presumably encounter all sorts of problems (rooted in their lack of Windows expertise), which I definitely have no time to track...

Once we find a working scenario for this generic problematics, producing and uploading Windows CVS updates is virtually trivial for me.


Bye Fridger

[fsgregs]

Fridger:

Yet unfortunately also ~98% of those users seem to have very little knowledge about how their operating system works...Large amounts of those people will then start downloading these Celestia.exe files and presumably encounter all sorts of problems (rooted in their lack of Windows expertise), which I definitely have no time to track...

I don't understand the problem, perhaps. In Windows XP, if we assume there is a download link to the build, along with a 2nd link to a zip file of other files (e.g. - pts files, etc.) that need to be unzipped into the Celestia folder, then I don't know what else needs to be done in Windows. Perhaps a short read-me file would tell us.

All I can say is that we have all been waiting and hoping for the release of your incredible galaxy rendering changes and your other bug fix changes for a long time now. It is a shame that Chris has not at least dropped us a note in the forum to explain what has been going on, but ... we have to work around that.

I strongly agree with Guckytos that as long as people understand this is a beta experimental build, at least they will realize that bugs may still be present. Since it is not an official release, all those millions of people who use Celestia will not see the cvs build or your work. Only those of us who regularly visit the forum (under 100 or so) and follow all these posts will even know where to get the cvs build. That is quite manageable, even if some of us make mistakes ??? in running the application because we don't know what to do with the Windows exe.

Please ... please ... add your latest changes to the cvs build ASAP and tell us where to get a Windows version of it. I have been revising my educational activities all summer and I would like to be able to utilize these changes in them. They will so enrich the experience that people will take. After all, isn't that part of the reason we all work so hard on this, for no compensation?




Frank

[steffens]

My understanding is that since some time several regular forum posters have managed to create and publish cvs windows builds, so this is not the problem.
Getting the new code into cvs should be sufficient and I would really appreciate it as it would synchronize developers work much better and increase transparency a lot.
Many thanks again for your great work!

steffens

[t00fri]

Fridger:

Yet unfortunately also ~98% of those users seem to have very little knowledge about how their operating system works...Large amounts of those people will then start downloading these Celestia.exe files and presumably encounter all sorts of problems (rooted in their lack of Windows expertise), which I definitely have no time to track...

I don't understand the problem, perhaps. In Windows XP, if we assume there is a download link to the build, along with a 2nd link to a zip file of other files (e.g. - pts files, etc.) that need to be unzipped into the Celestia folder, then I don't know what else needs to be done in Windows. Perhaps a short read-me file would tell us.

All I can say is that we have all been waiting and hoping for the release of your incredible galaxy rendering changes and your other bug fix changes for a long time now. It is a shame that Chris has not at least dropped us a note in the forum to explain what has been going on, but ... we have to work around that.

I strongly agree with Guckytos that as long as people understand this is a beta experimental build, at least they will realize that bugs may still be present. Since it is not an official release, all those millions of people who use Celestia will not see the cvs build or your work. Only those of us who regularly visit the forum (under 100 or so) and follow all these posts will even know where to get the cvs build. That is quite manageable, even if some of us make mistakes ??? in running the application because we don't know what to do with the Windows exe.

Please ... please ... add your latest changes to the cvs build ASAP and tell us where to get a Windows version of it. I have been revising my educational activities all summer and I would like to be able to utilize these changes in them. They will so enrich the experience that people will take. After all, isn't that part of the reason we all work so hard on this, for no compensation?




Frank

Frank,

OK, just a couple of issues that may illustrate a bit what kind of "problems" I was thinking about ...

1) Some people might want to keep the official Celestia version besides the experimental CVS one that I would e.g. provide. I am sure many people have no clear idea how to arrange for this coexistence given that I shall only update the compiled celestia.exe executable, but NOT a full distribution. There were extensive posts from Windows users how to deal with the registry etc. in this case...

2) Since I shall not provide a complete distribution, people will have to install the directory with the new deepsky.dsc , the new templates and all the rest separately by hand. many time-consuming add-ons will have to be inactive for now, since unfortunately, Toti's octree template class with my optimizations is not yet incorporated. This culling method is crucially required for retaining both speed and many galaxies at the same time

Bye Fridger

[fsgregs]

Fridger:

OK ... we agree. Just a short read-me in a zip file containing the accompanying files, telling us where in the Celestia windows folder to drag/put them is all we need. I think the limited audience of the cvs community can do that.

As to installation of two versions of Celestia, will the new cvs build not launch at all with 1.4.0pre 6 files? If so, the read-me can state simply to put the cvs build in a separate folder, copy and paste all the base files from the Celestia root directory, then unzip your additional files into that directory. Anything you need to run the new build will add to, or overwrite the 1.4.0pre 6 files, and we'll be good to go.



Thanks for agreeing to share your work with us. I can't wait!!!

Frank

[MB]

Fridger,
Go ahead, be positive! Why are you suddenly so cautious, so shy? It is obvious that everybody is impatient to see your new findings. You are since long the leader, and you have to take the leadership since as repeated many times Chris does not participate any more , (except perhaps virtually for us?) to Celestia. Reading, nearly every day your posts, that I particularly appreciate since many years, I clearly felt very recently significant change in your feelings ( See e.g. your negative answer to the positive initiative of PAOLO, may be too early ?).
It is clear that
- You must overcome your ambiguous relationship with Chris.
- Many developpers can help you as e.g. Christophe, as far as C++ and KDE Linux is concerned. I read that you can produce .exe in both Linux ( your working tool, as many scientists), and Windows ( for us, who don't use Linux for various reasons (another problem)), "Apple" guys have their own sub-commununity apparently.
- Don't bother with the "provisional" aspect of such versions. They can be discussed in the development sub-forum, therefore you are not at all forced at all to answer all threads.
- Unfortunately, at least for me compiling the CVS code under Windows, is not very satifactory, the code seems to be modified too rapidly by Chris(?), Recent changes of the compiler (?),more recenty the "Gettext" internationalisation ... 5Furthermore, but that is very personnal, I cannot get modem connexion with CVS (I travel through many locations in which I have only slow modem connections), connexion with CVS only works with fast connexion at the Lab.
In any case, Thank you Fridger for your major contributions and your dynamism and sorry to interfer inthis subject;
MB

[t00fri]

MB,

perhaps it's good if I clear up a few points, before they might give rise to misunderstandings.

Fridger,
Go ahead, be positive! Why are you suddenly so cautious, so shy? It is obvious that everybody is impatient to see your new findings. You are since long the leader, and you have to take the leadership since as repeated many times Chris does not participate any more , (except perhaps virtually for us?) to Celestia.

Since I have very challenging /and/ time-consuming professional responsabilities, and since I hate to make promises that I cannot meet (!), I am right now "cautious and shy" as it may seem to you .

Yes, I am also fighting seriously with my motivation for going on with developing Celestia /in public/. Honestly, without the great expertise and vision of Chris in OpenGL graphics rendering, Celestia development is lacking a most essential aspect! I cannot see any replacement for Chris in that respect. Dr. Joe has also vanished it seems...What demotivates me most is that more and more of the "more interesting" characters of this community are vanishing ...

Reading, nearly every day your posts, that I particularly appreciate since many years, I clearly felt very recently significant change in your feelings ( See e.g. your negative answer to the positive initiative of PAOLO, may be too early ?).

I seriously hope Paulo did not take my (negative) response personally.
Certainly I know that he had the best intentions to keep Celestia development alive! I have not seen him reappear since then, unfortunately..?

Personally, I am still, however, against such a forking venture. Rather I would "go private", if the public part dies off.

It is clear that
- You must overcome your ambiguous relationship with Chris.

Here I need to point out that since > 3.5 years, my relations to Chris are really very good, quite "steady" and sometimes even a bit "personal" ! I (desperately) kept trying to "reactivate" him, since he is just the best graphics expert around with thorough knowledge in astrophysics. I often feel very bad writing these "reminding" letters to him all the time, trying to push etc...I am definitely tired of this now and correspondingly have not responded to his last letter of July 26.

From Chris' replies and apologies I am convinced that he honestly /wants/ to go on and that he has very bad feelings about effectively not doing so. Yet, his intention--for various /understandable/ reasons-- just does not seem to realize anymore!

Bye Fridger

[fsgregs]

Fridger:

Your earlier post promised to polish up what you've done so far and upload it to cvs in the next few days.

Your comments since then had made no mention of your continued intent. PLEASE ... don't change your mind

We all want to share your great work, with or without Chris's participation. After all, he may be a great graphics designer, but you are a major designer of Celestia.

Will you share your work with us via cvs ... ASAP ??

Frank

[t00fri]

Fridger:

Your earlier post promised to polish up what you've done so far and upload it to cvs in the next few days.

Your comments since then had made no mention of your continued intent. PLEASE ... don't change your mind

We all want to share your great work, with or without Chris's participation. After all, he may be a great graphics designer, but you are a major designer of Celestia.

Will you share your work with us via cvs ... ASAP ??

Frank

Frank,

I mentioned above that I hate making promises that I cannot meet...hence there is no reason to worry
since I stated earlier that I will try to meet the CVS "deadline" this weekend...

I am still dissatisfied with my present workaround for rendering elliptical galaxies ( supposed to be Chris' part)
and thus I am working pretty hard on it at night (to meet the deadline ).

But be warned: Until Toti's octree culling "device" is implemented, Celestia will be quite slow! I shall also make my BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG 10000+ galaxy file available for download. It's a lot more fun, but presently with a fairly high "price tag" for owners of slowish graphics cards...

If Toti manages to reimplement the galaxy command-line addressing in his new octree code, I could easily merge our codes! Then the fun could really start....

Bye Fridger

[t00fri]

Yeah, getting a bit nostalgic...while browsing through some old threads.

Here is one that I enjoyed a lot. Such "happenings" tend to become VERY rare nowadays...

For those interested, don't miss reading it from the start to the end

http://www.shatters.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5124&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Bye Fridger