Update! HD 28185 Photo Album and System Info Project Update!

[Don. Edwards]

Let me make this very clear. The HD 28185 system add-on is large and may have problems on certain systems. I will be posting the minimum system requirements needed.
I have only my main computer and a second one with a 1GHz Celeron, 768MB of SDRAM, and a GeForce 2 GTS 64MB card. I am almost positive the full DDS version will run on this system. I will be using this system to set the minimum requirements. I have the ability to slow down the Celeron to 700MHz as a base test. If everything can run on this system than most users should be able to use the lower end version of the add-on. Of course the better your CPU, RAM, and Video card the better the add-on will run.

As for models I have yet to see any problem with them. Most models in my add-on are just for asteroids, comets and the like, so most of the rendering is simple spheres. But there is always a system and or video card that simply will not run this add-on.

I could do is a beta test of the add-on for those that have some strange system configurations or video cards that are known to have problems with certain models in Celestia. The only thing about a beta is the possibility of the add-on getting leaked to the public before it is ready. This would make a mess of things to be sure. As a beta tester of several computer programs I can tell you that a leaked version of any software can really have a negative impact on what gets released. And it is not a good thing to have the beta out in the wild and release the gold version. This again causes allot of confusion. So I most likely will not be releasing a beta of the add-on.

This is what I will do. Tonight I will get XP reloaded on the Celeron system and I will import the add-on and Celestia and do a few test runs and report back how things are running. This is the only way to be sure. So I will probably report the results in the late evening hours Pacific Daylight Time, at the latest just past midnight.

Don.

P.S.
I will be testing the add-on in its present form which is a mix of DDS, PNG, and JPG textures. This is of course not the best way to do this but it should give a fair guess as to how it will perform. This will put more stress on the GeFoece 2 GTS so maybe this is the best way after all.

[CVPI99]

cant wate to downlaod this syetm i have been wanting to test out my vedio card

is this a real system or is it fiction?

[Michael Kilderry]

It's mostly fictional, except one of the planets is based on a real one.

---Michael---

[Don. Edwards]

Ok here we go. As it stands the add-on works fairly well with a 700MHz Celeron, 768MB of SDRAM, and the GeForce 2 GTS with 64Mb of VSDRAM.
There are some loading delays going from one planet to next. This delay will shorten with the all DDS version of course. I threw all the models and textures I could at it. The present inner asteroid belt, all the planets and moons, the KO belt, and the rogue bodies. The only thing I saw was load delays and certain cloud textures being blured. The cloud texture problem can be fixed two ways. Either by making the clouds stationary, not popular of course, or moving to a smaller cloud texture. I think that the DDS cloud textures at 4k will work fine as will 2k textures in the limited version of the add-on. I will run another test to nail down everthing once Ihave all the textures converted to DDS.

The main issue I see will be the "Lite" version of the ad-on. I am still not sure if I want to go with "High Quality" JPG or PNG files. JPG will allow for a smaller download but there will be some loss of quality, or go for the PNG only. This is the best for quality but will make the add-on almost as big a download as the DDS version.

Actualy scratch the choices. The "Lite" version is going to be all PNG. I plan to intergrate the specmaps into there coresponding textures to simplify the add-on. This should tighten things up a bit.

Don.

[ElChristou]

Personally I would like to see all those fictional addons treated as the Solar System: Low, Mid and Hires textures (256, 512, 1024 png or jpeg) + AlterSurfaces (VT, 4k, 8K DDS or png etc...)...

[rthorvald]

It all depends on if Runar will give permission and if it doesn't increase the file size dramatically.

Of course you can use it!
As for the filesize, the base texture is an 8k PNG with 1024x1024 tiles. I can certainly prepare a custom version for you with lower resolution:

For example, dropping it to a 4k png texture with 512x512 tiles would cut the filesize dramatically without taking out anything significant of the concept. Converting to DDS afterwards is of course possible, too.

PM me if you are interested...

-rthorvald

[rthorvald]

Runar and, partly, Jestr are producing addons that are simply unusable for the average user

Hm... I do know this. But for me - Jestr too, i believe - the end result is shaped by what i want to use the AddOn *for*.

For me, i build it to get the images, not to fly around in. While constructing it, and afterwards, i go hunting for screenshots of things i have planned to visualize before i start. This makes, to me, framerate less relevant, and the consequence is that i usually design my scenes right at the limit of what my own system can handle. That is why i usually make a cut-down version of it available for other people, and leave it to the user to trim it down further.

If anyone is interested in building lower res, more userfriendly versions of my stuff, just ask...

I'm still wondering if the modelling component of celestia is coded so badly, or if the models are simply bad optimized.

Well, i try to keep the poly count down, but in some cases, as for example the JTPS AddOn, getting what i want requires a *number* of models that can become a bit much... I have noticed that different versions of Celestia handles it differently, though.

BTW, you don??t want to see what the *unpublished* versions of these monsters can do to a computer

-rthorvald

PS: Mr. Edwards, i won??t hijack your thread with more on this; i do hope to see your solar system soon, it looks to set a new standard for Celestia that almost scares me...

[ElChristou]

...I'm still wondering if the modelling component of celestia is coded so badly, or if the models are simply bad optimized...

With my poor card, I have plenty of problems with models, it's one of the reasons I begun the shuttle. Mostly 3DS models (Jestr's big ones - hubble, Nostromo, some of StarWar) give me some really weird results... I think this come from the way the model has been done, and generally a cmod convertion is enought to fix the problem.

In all case, some models are really not made to use in a real time 3D renderer... Even in the last 3D games (Doom3 etc...), the models are not so complex has they appear. Lot's of work is done on texturing and light effect to give the impression of complexity, and lots of tricks are used to avoid calculating all unnecessary rendering...

[maxim]

For me, i build it to get the images, not to fly around in. While constructing it, and afterwards, i go hunting for screenshots of things i have planned to visualize before i start. This makes, to me, framerate less relevant, and the consequence is that i usually design my scenes right at the limit of what my own system can handle.

Ok, point accepted.

That is why i usually make a cut-down version of it available for other people, and leave it to the user to trim it down further.

If anyone is interested in building lower res, more userfriendly versions of my stuff, just ask...

That's not so easy. Main culprit are the models.

Well, i try to keep the poly count down, but in some cases, as for example the JTPS AddOn, getting what i want requires a *number* of models that can become a bit much...

Yes, but to get the polycount really low without loosing the vison (or allow other people to do so) the design approach should be different - i.e. by not modelling every part to death but use texturizing on simplyfied outlines so one could choose between low poly - high textures or high poly - low textures. Following argument above -> I'm not a modeller, so I wouldn't know how to really simplify the models and substitute that by indroducing textured surfaces instead.

I would be very willing to discuss and initiate a production process that automates the creation and deployment of ready-to-use low-end addons out of a 'master addon' - so less work, more fun for everybody.

(Much more to be said here to Celestia as Visualisation Engine, Videobooks, Interactivity, Machinimas, Dream Worlds, Myst,... maybe later or in another thread).

maxim

[maxim]

In all case, some models are really not made to use in a real time 3D renderer... Even in the last 3D games (Doom3 etc...), the models are not so complex has they appear. Lot's of work is done on texturing and light effect to give the impression of complexity, and lots of tricks are used to avoid calculating all unnecessary rendering...

That's what I've meant. The tricks would be a revision of Celestias code, but the other ...

I know that some are arguing that they prefer detailed models over textured ones. But wouldn't it be nice if modelling was planned in a way, that some automation tools could be applied which strongly simplify the models and create textures instead to visualize the missing parts? - but I admit that I don't know about automation capabilities of modelling software.

maxim

[rthorvald]

... tools could be applied which strongly simplify the models and create textures instead to visualize the missing parts...

I made a new thread for this topic here:
http://celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57870#57870

- rthorvald

[Don. Edwards]

Just a quick update!

The DDS version has been finished and is ready for packaging. It is wieghing in at close to 300MB. So I will break it down into at least three pieces for easier downloading. I may also make a single one in all package for those with broadband conections. I have to take a few of the larger textures out but I will make them available as plug-ins for the add-on. I am shooting for the first day of Autnm for the release date. But don't hold me to that.

Don.

[Rassilon]

Just a quick update!

The DDS version has been finished and is ready for packaging. It is wieghing in at close to 300MB. So I will break it down into at least three pieces for easier downloading. I may also make a single one in all package for those with broadband conections. I have to take a few of the larger textures out but I will make them available as plug-ins for the add-on. I am shooting for the first day of Autnm for the release date. But don't hold me to that.

Don.

You know Im looking forward to this especially now that I have access to a T1 at work hehe....Cant wait to see this in action....

[brunetto_64]

not problem for me...I have a 4 mega adsl...