WTF ?????????????????? ALMOST USELESS

[t00fri]

Maybe 16MB is not enough?

Vendor: 3Dfx Interactive Inc.
Renderer: 3Dfx/Voodoo3 (tm)/2 TMUs/16 MB SDRAM/KNI/ICD (Jan 16 2001)
Version: 1.1.0
Max simultaneous textures: 2
Max texture size: 256


Supported Extensions:
GL_ARB_multitexture
GL_EXT_abgr
GL_EXT_bgra
GL_EXT_clip_volume_hint
GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array
GL_EXT_packed_pixels
GL_EXT_point_parameters
GL_EXT_stencil_wrap
GL_EXT_texture_env_add
GL_EXT_vertex_array
GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp
GL_EXT_paletted_texture
GL_EXT_shared_texture_palette
GL_SGIS_multitexture
GL_EXT_fog_coord
WGL_EXT_extensions_string
WGL_3DFX_gamma_control
WGL_EXT_swap_control
WGL_ARB_extensions_string

Murphy,

I am sorry to say so, but this is just not an appropriate graphics card equipment for an OpenGL program as complex as Celestia.

That explains a lot of your troubles...

Presumably your CPU is correspondingly "senior"? Just for "normalization", my graphics card uses 256 MB of DDR RAM and supports the OpenGL 2.0 Render path. My CPU is 3.2 GHz with 3 GB (!) of CL2 RAM. Correspondingly my fps rate is always close to 100/sec and often in the 120's, all based on 32 bitplane color, 4x anti alias and 1600x1200 resolution

Chris is even better equipped...

With your tiny texture size and little RAM, you could never even develop a /feel/ for what you are missing . I wrote earlier that I am using typically 2048x2048 texture tiles, making up HUGE and most detailed textures of 2-4 GB!

Your OpenGL version is hopelessly outdated. Version 1.1.0 is officially UNSUPPORTED in the context of Celestia. Is this the latest driver you can get for your card? You will be unable to render the majority of 3d effects with this driver.

I thought your were talking about professional level equipment [, when making all those reproaches to the Celestia crew, initially.] Sorry...

Bye Fridger

[selden]

Murphy,

You'll actually get better 3D graphics (although slower) if you disable hardware graphics acceleration entirely and use software OpenGL routines. As Fridger mentioned, the OpenGL drivers provided long ago by 3DFX are obsolete and buggy.

If you're running Windows, you should download and install DirectX v9.0c. Although it's slow and limited in functionality, the software OpenGL library that's included is relatively bug-free. (And will let you use textures up to 1K.)

If you're running Linux, the Mesa library probably would be appropriate.

Upgrading to a more modern graphics card would be better, though, if you can afford it.

[Murphy]

[quote="selden"]Murphy,

You'll actually get better 3D graphics (although slower) if you disable hardware graphics acceleration entirely and use software OpenGL routines. As Fridger mentioned, the OpenGL drivers provided long ago by 3DFX are obsolete and buggy.

If you're running Windows, you should download and install DirectX v9.0c. Although it's slow and limited in functionality, the software OpenGL library that's included is relatively bug-free. (And will let you use textures up to 1K.)

Upgrading to a more modern graphics card would be better, though, if you can afford it.[/quote]

Back in the old days, I used to play a flight simulator game called Falcon 3.0 by NovaLogic (or something like that)
It required some spiffy graphics processing speed or the frame rate was slow.. My graphics card ran it great. There were a lot more grahics moving much faster around the screen than in Celestia.. Why is this program so labor intensive on the card? Although Celestia is a very cool program on so many levels, I just dont see the amazing graphics. (This is "space" we are talking about so I would not expect all that stuff).
I have never been much into video games except the one mentioned above.. I was surprised to hear the video cards are so much faster now as in my business, (machine automation), video is not all that important beyond displaying a menu.

I will try running the program on a better computer and see what happens.

I am still at a lost to understand why Celestia requires such a high performance card.. If anything, I would have expected it would require a high performance processor to calculate all those object positions..
Am I to understand all those calculations are taking place on the graphics card?

[selden]

It's not the performance that it needs, but rather the 3D functionality of OpenGL. This can be provided by software libraries (like Microsoft's) or implemented in the graphics hardware. Modern low performance, high functionality cards are about $50 U.S. (e.g. Nvidia FX 5200)

Celestia uses OpenGL subroutine calls to draw its 3D images. The OpenGL standard has advanced a lot since 3DFX closed its doors. Celestia takes advantage of those newer functions when they're available. This avoids having to implement the that functionality in Celestia's own code. (Specular highlights are one example: sunlight glinting off the ocean. Casting shadows from multiple light sources is another: the appearance of planets in multi-star systems.)

Companies that create games can afford to have dozens of people working full time to write specialized code that works with each of the different types of graphics cards, avoiding their different bugs and adding functions that are missing on some of them. Celestia has only one person writing its 3D code in his spare time. He has to depend on the OpenGL libraries being bug free. Too often, though, they have bugs. Since 3DFX is no longer in business, the bugs in their OpenGL libraries will never be fixed.

I hope this clarifies things a little.

[t00fri]

Back in the old days, I used to play a flight simulator game called Falcon 3.0 by NovaLogic (or something like that)
It required some spiffy graphics processing speed or the frame rate was slow.. My graphics card ran it great. ...

Falcon 3.0 was "in" around 1995. I sincerely hope your present computer& graphics card are newer than that game

Bye Fridger

[selden]

Fridger,

He mentioned that he has a 3dfx Voodoo card.
Apparently it is that old. 3dfx went out of business in late 2000 when they sold their assets to Nvidia. 3dfx was the best in the business back then but it's seriously outmoded now. That was only 5 years ago, but it's an eternity in the graphics business.

I used to have a Voodoo 5 series card, one of the last they made. It had so many problems running Celestia that I was forced to upgrade to Nvidia.

[t00fri]

Who knows old things can suddenly become very valuable some times

Like what was reported in the German news today:

Die etwa 2700 Jahre alte Moorleiche, die im Uchter Moor im Landkreis Nienburg entdeckt worden ist, soll ab Donnerstag auch f??r die ?–ffentlichkeit zu sehen sein.

Die Leiche im Moor war beim Torfabbau entdeckt worden. Es handelt sich um den europaweit ersten Fund dieser Art seit ??ber 40 Jahren, wie das Landesamt f??r Denkmalpflege am Sonntag in Hannover mitteilte. Der Fund gilt zudem als die ?¤lteste Moorleiche Niedersachsens.

Bye Fridger

[Dollan]

This looks to be of archaeological interest. Is there a translation available anywhere?

...John...

[t00fri]

This looks to be of archaeological interest. Is there a translation available anywhere?

...John...

I am afraid not. It's a 16 year old girl, killed 2700 years ago ("iron" time) , one hand is excellently preserved due to the absence of oxygen in the moor. The young lady has been found accidentally and /very/ recently. They are still digging...

At first they suspected a crime until they found out that the lady was 2700 years old already

Bye Fridger

[Dollan]

Interesting! I'll keep an ear out in the DinosaursEtc Yahoo! Group that I co-own. With the tons of news stories that go through there, someone will surely find an English version.

In the meantime, I think I'll go off on a Google search for anything on this...

...John...

[Hungry4info]

1) I think *just from some... random idea* that murphy's slightly...but not too much... angered. The site loads fine for me, and takes around 6-8 seconds, and I have dial-up. Perhaps murphy's computer is slow, or perhaps he has other situations that might cause him to lag down. I think he's over-reacting.

2) As we all learned in school, the proper way to write a letter of complaint is to address the person you're complaining to with respect, state your problems, state possible solutions, and end the paper. The paper should be written in a civilized manor and free of hateful comments, flaming, and otherwise un-necessary (did I spell that right?) remarks intended to hurt the feelings of others. Murphy obviously didn't turn much homework in on time... or was born in a third-world country where many (but not all) people don't know how to behave, or can afford an education. Perhaps you would catch more people's attention if you presented your complaints in a more civil manor. Try universalization, imagine somebody flaming you over a site that you worked so hard on... would you be bursting with joy at the sight of such a message?

[Spaceman Spiff]

and otherwise un-necessary (did I spell that right?) remarks

The hyphen in 'unnecessary' is unnecessary. .

Spiff.

[Hungry4info]

Thanks Spiff.

[Clauzii]

Hi!

I??m seated in Denmark, Uses a K6-II 400 MHz machine on a 256kb cable connection for downloading and forums: Always running smooth.... no bullsh..

So How come you have ALL these problems??

And yes, I think it was good You apoligised for the first post - it was WAY out of line....