Custom Cloudmaps?

[ElChristou]

Thanks for the links and tutorials folks, I'll try out what Fridger suggested.

I was actually thinking about earth-like planets... I was ultimately wondering how easy it would be to come up with cloud maps that had the cloud bands and cyclones etc like Earth does... but I do think it's better to start simple and then progress onto the more complicated stuff .

Let us know your progress on this... If I find a minute I will do a new 4k earth like cloud map.

Bye

I am sure you know that 4k clouds DON't move...2k is the maximum for having CloudSpeed <>0

Bye Fridger

Yes I know, but them people are free to do a 2k version... the 4k is (I think) the minimum to have a quite good quality when approching ISS for example...

Question? why this 2k limitation??

[selden]

2K textures are the largest that can be used on any ATI card. Current Nvidia cards can use up to 4K textures.

Celestia knows how to cut larger textures into small pieces and remap them onto the surfaces of its internal spherical models. It can't remap the textures if they are moving relative to those surfaces.

Celestia also cannot cut and remap textures onto 3DS models or onto Ring systems. Those textures also have to fit into the card's texture buffer.

[t00fri]

Thanks for the links and tutorials folks, I'll try out what Fridger suggested.

I was actually thinking about earth-like planets... I was ultimately wondering how easy it would be to come up with cloud maps that had the cloud bands and cyclones etc like Earth does... but I do think it's better to start simple and then progress onto the more complicated stuff .

Let us know your progress on this... If I find a minute I will do a new 4k earth like cloud map.

Bye

I am sure you know that 4k clouds DON't move...2k is the maximum for having CloudSpeed <>0

Bye Fridger

Yes I know, but them people are free to do a 2k version... the 4k is (I think) the minimum to have a quite good quality when approching ISS for example...

Question? why this 2k limitation??

I have carefully examined plenty of 8k cloud textures. Why do I still use my good old 2k ones??

-- I noticed that to my taste, most 8k textures are too "dense" (detailed) in structure such that most of the really interesting surface details are hidden! I want to focus my attention more on the surface rather than on the clouds...

-- 8k clouds don't move

-- in my opinion, 2k clouds can be done well enough to tell your brain: "nice clouds ahead" without obscuring anything essential. My 2k clouds still look decent close to ISS
Even very light clouds provide the impression of clouds!


Bye Fridger

[ElChristou]

...I noticed that to my taste, most 8k textures are too "dense" (detailed) in structure such that most of the really interesting surface details are hidden! I want to focus my attention more on the surface rather than on the clouds...
...My 2k clouds still look decent close to ISS
Even very light clouds provide the impression of clouds!

I agree with you, some maps are really too dense... I know sometime the reality is like this, but well I also want to see the ground...

I definitively want to see your map, cause it's not the first time you are talking of it...
Where can I find it?

Bye

[t00fri]

...
I agree with you, some maps are really too dense... I know
sometime the reality is like this, but well I also want to see
the ground...

I definitively want to see your map, cause it's not the first
time you are talking of it...

Where can I find it?

Bye

ElChristou,

my 2k clouds reside since 3 years on my
TextureFoundry WEB site. More than 155 000 people
have visited it/downloaded textures since its existence.


Here is the site's URL:

http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/texfoundry.php4

To get to the download page, you have to click on the rhs on
'what is available'.

In the tables you may click on the red dots that give you
typical screenshots taken with the respective textures.

My 2k clouds are called 'earth-clouds.dds.zip'. A 'historic'
benchmark image (from 05/28/2002) looks like this



Of course there exists also PNG versions on the site. If you
pretend on entry that you cannot display DDS, the PNG will
be made available for download.

The test-image shows my clouds from a /close/ distance,
illustrating that nevertheless there is practically no 'digital
effects' visible. Also note that plenty of ground can be seen...

Let me emphasize that the bluish RGB background of the
clouds texture was /matched/ to a particular earth texture of
mine. Hence, it will give less than optimal displays with other
peoples' earth textures! This is an important aspect to keep
in mind.

Actually, I just noticed that my 'historical' texture gallery was
apparently hacked during some of the recent attacks: Have a
look and possibly translate the text for me...

http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/gallery.t00fri/

Bye Fridger

[ElChristou]

...Actually, I just noticed that my 'historical' texture gallery was apparently hacked during some of the recent attacks: Have a
look and possibly translate the text for me...http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/gallery.t00fri/
...

Tx, for your adress...

Well seems to be esperanto or something similar... Who is responsable of shatters.net? haven't you report this?

[t00fri]

...Actually, I just noticed that my 'historical' texture gallery was apparently hacked during some of the recent attacks: Have a
look and possibly translate the text for me...http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/gallery.t00fri/
...

Tx, for your adress...

Well seems to be esperanto or something similar... Who is responsable of shatters.net? haven't you report this?

Just discovered it and have given up writing ONE WAY emails

Bye Fridger

[Fafers]

...Actually, I just noticed that my 'historical' texture gallery was apparently hacked during some of the recent attacks: Have a
look and possibly translate the text for me...http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/gallery.t00fri/
...

Esperanto, ElChristou?! Considering that you are living in Paraguay, very close to Brazil, you should be capable of recognizing that language...

That's portuguese. It means something like:
"While there are hunger and war, Simiens will exist."
Whatever this Simiens is. I would bet they are brazilian hackers. You can see something like a "stylized" brazilian flag next to the right hand of the "DJ"...

Hey! Don't you look at me, Dr. Fridger! It was not me.

[PlutonianEmpire]

I love cloud maps. I can't get enough of them I frequently like to use the warp tool to make ridiculously large superstorms. Though, I have tried making a few cloudmaps completely from scratch, they seem to look.... bland & featureless, i believe.

[t00fri]

...Actually, I just noticed
that my 'historical' texture gallery was apparently hacked
during some of the recent attacks: Have a
look and possibly translate the text for
me...http://www.shatters.net/~t00fri/gallery.t00fri/
...

Esperanto, ElChristou?! Considering that you are living
in Paraguay, very close to Brazil, you should be capable of
recognizing that language...

That's portuguese. It means something like:
"While there are hunger and war, Simiens will exist."
Whatever this Simiens is. I would bet they are brazilian
hackers. You can see something like a "stylized" brazilian
flag next to the right hand of the "DJ"...

Hey! Don't you look at me, Dr. Fridger! It was not me.

Thanks for the confirmation . Being able to read (and
formerly even speak) quite a bit of Portugese myself, I was
only teasing our friend ElChristou (checking out whether he
keeps speaking French in Paraquay all the time )
I only had no idea either what Simiens was supposed to mean...

Many years ago, I lived for 3 months in Sao Paulo and
subsequently travelled for 6 weeks in the whole of SA. In the
near future I will return to Brazil, Argentina and Mexico on a
regular basis (1-3/year) in my function as a German
coordinator of a big-size scientific cooperation and training
program with South American countries. I am looking forward
to this opportunity very much, since my wife and I enjoyed
staying in Brazil a lot.

Bye Fridger

[ElChristou]

Esperanto, ElChristou?! Considering that you are living in Paraguay, very close to Brazil, you should be capable of recognizing that language...

That's portuguese. It means something like:
"While there are hunger and war, Simiens will exist."
Whatever this Simiens is. I would bet they are brazilian hackers. You can see something like a "stylized" brazilian flag next to the right hand of the "DJ"...

Hey! Don't you look at me, Dr. Fridger! It was not me.

Thanks for the confirmation Wink . Being able to read (and
formerly even speak) quite a bit of Portugese myself, I was
only teasing our friend ElChristou (checking out whether he
keeps speaking French in Paraquay all the time Wink )
I only had no idea either what Simiens was supposed to mean...

Many years ago, I lived for 3 months in Sao Paulo and
subsequently travelled for 6 weeks in the whole of SA. In the
near future I will return to Brazil, Argentina and Mexico on a
regular basis (1-3/year) in my function as a German
coordinator of a big-size scientific cooperation and training
program with South American countries. I am looking forward
to this opportunity very much, since my wife and I enjoyed
staying in Brazil a lot.

Soooory guys, shame on me!!!
The worse thing about this is that I will (perhaps in a short time) go leaving near Rio... and I have to learn portuguese...
It's right Fridger, 70% of time I'm speaking french... at home and with my clients via internet...
Let me know when you will be in Brazil, we can perhaps met on a beach and then you will have all the time to explain me the conformal mapping

Damned, your cloudmap is on the same basis than the one from Mario's website... (normal if you were working together...)
But 2 days ago I have started a modification of his 16k and the result right know is super similar to your map!!!
I will have to look for another map to modify...

Bye

[Don. Edwards]

I have been following this thread for the last couple of days and think it is time for me to jump into the subject again as a few things have been said and I think they have been pointed in mine and a few other texture artists?€™ direction.
ALL Earth cloud maps including mine are based on the same texture from BlueMarble. This includes Fridger?€™s. But it appears that I am the only one who has had the guts to research as to how the clouds on Earth change over time and by season and attempt to add this data into the same old cloudmap to update it. And while I never claimed near perfection with my clouds as some have, I feel they help to represent what the Earth would truly look like from orbit or space. Also who cares if the clouds don't move? Has anyone seen footage as to how the clouds really move? They do not all move in the same direction. I would rather have very accurately rendered clouds fixed in place over having them move in an un-natural manner and the wrong speed. Another point is that clouds are very opaque. They block light from hitting the surface because of this. I take this into consideration. Some other texture designers have not and there clouds show this defect in that they are too transparent and you see the surface through the clouds. This is not natural. So as usual there are going to be two sides to every issue. Those that will simply accept having things rendered in the lower fidelity way and thoughs that wish to go all for the best possible effect in Celestia.
I am sorry that some feel the way I do things is not for them but I strive for true realism as much as possible.

Just my 2 cents on this subject.

Don. Edwards

[ElChristou]

Hi, Don. Edwards

Yes perhaps you are the only one who has worked hard on this topic, but yet I haven't downloaded all your textures, it's why I haven't asked you on this topic.
You right, clouds are opaque, but some maps are really too dense... so if someone like me (like Fridger) want to see more ground, the good deal is not making the cloudmap more transparent, but eliminating some clouds to open larger gaps... now this is just a question of taste.
Ok you are also right on the rotation of the cloudmap, it's why I wanted to propose a new minimum 4k maps for better viewing in hires for medium platform and the 2k, 1k version for the med and lores... (I know for power user there is no interest in 4k but... well I'm not one... so I do with the possibilities of my little 12" powerbook...)

Now as graphic designer, if I want to do a new map is not because yours or the Fridger's one is not good, but because I'am testing from my own every graphic option that make Celestia so cool (from the graphic point of view). If the work seems good enough then I will show it on the forum...

Bye

[PlutonianEmpire]

Umm... not ALL clouds are opaque, for there ARE transparent clouds here and there, such as high altitude cirrus clouds, clouds covering the entire sky but still thin enough to let us see the sun/moon itself, etc; so having the all the clouds on the cloudmap be completely opaque is also slightly unrealistic, I believe.

[ElChristou]

Umm... not ALL clouds are opaque, for there ARE transparent clouds here and there, such as high altitude cirrus clouds, clouds covering the entire sky but still thin enough to let us see the sun/moon itself, etc; so having the all the clouds on the cloudmap be completely opaque is also slightly unrealistic, I believe.

You're right, I was thinking in those big ones very white... (cumulo nimbus?)

Bye

[PlutonianEmpire]

Umm... not ALL clouds are opaque, for there ARE transparent clouds here and there, such as high altitude cirrus clouds, clouds covering the entire sky but still thin enough to let us see the sun/moon itself, etc; so having the all the clouds on the cloudmap be completely opaque is also slightly unrealistic, I believe.

You're right, I was thinking in those big ones very white... (cumulo nimbus?)

Bye

Cumulonimbus. Yeah. THOSE are opaque.

[jclin2000]

Can this type of cloudmap be rendered to Celestia ?

http://xplanet.fortha.org/clouds_2048.jpg

(which updated every 3 hours from Dundee)

[Don. Edwards]

Yes and no. If it is coverted to a tranparent cloudmap using Gimp it will work. But this texture has allot of noise in it. It was taken at in the infrared wavelength. Thats why there is so much of the gray color in cold areas. Cold air shows up as gray to white. Black is tropical or warm.
If it was converted with Gimp it wouldn't exacly look to good in its present condition. It would need allot of post work before the conversion. This is the main reason that there simply are not any new cloudmaps. It is a vary long proccess to clear out all the junk from the image. If you look close enough you can even see the continents outlined the image. Not thingss that you would want rotating around with your clouds.
I do know that BlueMarble has an all new cloudmap but they haven't released it to the public. They use it for rendering in house. I have several pictures of BlueMarble renders showing the cloudmap. It isn't perfect either but it would be nice to get ahold of it. I have toyed with the idea of trying to import some of the new cloud data into the loder cloudmap. I still may try if time permits.

Don.


I gave it a few minutes and here is what I cam up with. It isn't perfect but it doesn't have a seam line. See if you like the results. Just right click and save it to your hard drive. Then you can us it in Celestia.


This took a total of 3 minutes to make. I did crop the top and bottom a little. If you want an uncropped versio I can do that real quick too.

Don.

[jclin2000]

Don

Thanks for the prompt reply and the png file, it's interesting to learn,
I know it has lot of problem, but probably the only source of near realtime "real" global mosaic of geostationary satellite IR image, IR for one reason that it's available 24 hours a day.
and has been used on Xplanet for this purpose.

http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/pdus.html

Can this "conversion" process be automated by script ?

[Don. Edwards]

Not that I am aware of. I know Gimp can be scrited to do things and it probably can be scripted to create the tranparent cloudmap but I used Photshop to find tune the brightness and contrast to try an wash out the grays so to speak. Unfortunatly those gray clouds that are lost in the proccess are reall clouds in the warmer infared band so they apear gray instead of white. What is really needed is world wide cloud imagery in the normal visual wavelengths. That way we could create very realistic cloudmaps. The other issue with the weather images like this one are they are always at a low resolution. So any detail they have is lost as you get closer to them. Trust me I have been wracking my brains for three years trying to make better cloudmaps for the Earth. I simply came to the conclusion the only way to do it was to use BlueMarble 16k version cloudmap and add and remove clouds and storms to it to make it different. I feel I have done a fairly good job as no one else has tried this aproach. No one is really interested I think in tackling clouds as they are not the easiest texture to work on.
If you could compare the image I proccessed with the same image in the normal visual light you would see that the Earth is allot more cloudy than most Celestia cloudmaps make it out to be. Some users like it that way as they can see more of the surface. But if you want it to as authentic as posible then more clouds are needed.

Don.