TextureFoundry Upgrade Project CANCELLED!

[Guest]

PLEEEEASE! Just stop that useless nonsense !

Yeah, shure, after you yer'onner.
!!
Those who would set themselves up as moral guardians of what are good and bad textures and good and bad addon themes (fictitious or otherwise) for us to play with in Celestia should look into their own hearts before pontificating upon who is better than whom, Fridger take note.

[maxim]

Lets face it that since I have made so many versions of Earth textures over the years that I am sure that there is some confusion as to what is the newest versus the oldest

You should ask Joe, to set up a CVS repository server for your textures on motherlode. So there won't be confusions anymore.

maxim

[t00fri]

PLEEEEASE! Just stop that useless nonsense !

Yeah, shure, after you yer'onner.
!!
Those who would set themselves up as moral guardians of what are good and bad textures and good and bad addon themes (fictitious or otherwise) for us to play with in Celestia should look into their own hearts before pontificating upon who is better than whom, Fridger take note.

Ptarmigan, "Guest",

yes, I did take note. As a consequence of your posts that I
consider both unqualified and offensive, I have definitely made up my mind:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There will be no TextureFoundry anymore
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

None of my forthcoming textures will be made public.
This will save me a lot of time.

Sorry for initiating this thread.

Bye Fridger

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

...because throwing a tantrum when people call you on your overbearing attitude to the Motherlode is a really mature thing to do

Ptarmigan is absolutely right - you didn't need to throw snarky insults at the Motherlode in your initial post. You didn't need to make out than you wanted to separate your textures from everyone else's because they weren't good enough to be worthy of sharing the same webspace as your creations. It was completely unecessary and highly antagonistic.

You have repeatedly shown that you really have no idea how to deal with people, Fridger - at least in this community. You fail to acknowledge that you even do anything wrong when people call you on it. You refuse to apologise for your overbearing, antagonistic behaviour. You refuse to even acknowledge that you ARE overbearing and antagonistic. You patronise, you offend, you annoy, and all you do is make blithe sarcastic comments when you piss people off instead of doing the decent thing and apologising. You have a huge ego, and that is what keeps getting in the way here. Learn some humility and respect for others - regardless of their ability - and you may get somewhere.

You're a smart guy, Fridger, and you have a lot to contribute to this community - if only your oversized ego didn't keep getting in the way. You're not better than everyone else here - yes, you're a good developer, but that doesn't give you the right to tread all over everyone else because of that. Look at Selden and Grant - they contribute just as much (if not more) you and are just as smart (if not more) as you, yet they remain humble, helpful, and polite throughout. They don't go round antagonising and sneering at everyone like you do. Neither does Chris for that matter, and if anyone is entitled to have a somewhat oversized head over Celestia it's him - yet he doesn't at all.

No doubt you'll stomp off in a strop because of this. That's up to you. But know that the problem is not that people aren't grateful for what you do (because we are) and don't acknowledge your contributions (because we do acknowledge them) - the problem is entirely your attitude towards other people here.

[t00fri]

I am done...Evil.Dr. Ganymede!

Bye Fridger

[Cham]

Please guys, stop that crap!

You're all putting gazoline on the fire, and you're maintaining the wheel of insults, the spiral of violence and nonsense. Just take a deep breath and say ... "Om mani padme hum".

[Don. Edwards]

Hey Everyone,
I would think that after 3 years and all the posts that have been made by Fridger, Myself and Other long time users over the years that almost all of you would realize that when you speak with Fridger in an exchange you always have the ability to bring out this side of him. I know from personal experience what can go wrong. As he has also learned that I can also be pushed to the limit. Some of the things that were said about Fridger may or may not be true, but that is beside the point. I can’t say that I know him personally but I feel I know him well enough that I know my limits when I speak with him. I know what I can speak to him about with out the conversation going nuclear. It took me a year to figure this out. I feel that the rest of you long timers to the Celestia forum would have realized the formula when conversing with Fridger. I am not saying he is difficult to speak with all the time. But everyone should be able to see the signs when you should or should not confront him on a subject. As I said I don’t have the privilege of knowing him in the real world but I feel that he would someone interesting to meet and speak with. Not everyone can get along all the time. Did any of you think that with his real world life and his Celestia life he may under some personal stress. Did any of you think that maybe you just pushed the right button at the right time to trigger the rest of went on. Again I can say if what I said is true for him. I myself am under a great deal of stress and I too could of easily been pushed to the breaking point if some one would have pushed an issue with me at the wrong moment.
Now there are a few you that I have seen quite plainly are going out of your way to rub Fridger the wrong way just o get a rise out of him. Lets face you know who you are and you should feel real good about what you have done. I for one am getting sick and tired you people snipping at him just for the pure joy of doing it. So why don’t you all knock it off right know or Fridger will not be the one having second thoughts about remaining involved in community and releasing textures and add-ons for Celestia.
I know I have said this before but I am serious about this. I understand that it is normal for there to be some conflict and of course conflict can be a good thing. But when it starts getting personal like it has with Fridger that is when it goes over the line. So I guess I am drawing a line in sand. If things do not chill out ASAP then you can count me out as well. I can not and will not continue to be associated with a community that is starting to degenerate into a name calling frenzy and arguments over something as trivial as were someone should or should not store there files.

Fridger,
If you are out there and you read this I just want you to know that I am 100% behind you in your choice of action. I will not attempt to talk you into changing your mind. It is your choice. I know you were provoked into this. I just hope that everyone else will realizes the mistake that has been made before it is to late. I for one was looking forward to the new textures. It is a shame everyone was so quick to brush you and them off just fir the sake of putting a grin on a few faces. Most if not all Celestia users have no idea what it takes to build a texture, especially 16k and 32k textures.
They really just don’t have a clue. I do as well as I know you do.

Good luck on all your future endeavors and I for one would like to know how things turn out. You are free to email anytime for a very civilized chat.

Don. Edwards

[rthorvald]

your overbearing attitude to the Motherlode [...] you didn't need to throw snarky insults at the Motherlode in your initial post

I am one of the original Motherlode workers, and i don?t feel the least bit offended by what Fridger wrote. But then, i understood what he actually meant, and it wasn?t what you have implied. Not that it matters, as it is nobodys business what anyone does with their own hard work.

Fridger, If you are out there and you read this I just want you to know that I am 100% behind you in your choice of action

I wholeheartedly supports what Don Edwards has written here.
Fridger, i don?t know you personally either, but i do wish you the best of luck, and sincerely hope the fun of Celestia aren?t lost for you because of this mess. And, as Don wrote too, feel free to email.

Regards,
Runar

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Don, you could at least cut the passive aggressive nonsense and have the balls to say your post is addressed to me.

For starters, Fridger DOES have no idea how to deal with people. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who has gotten more and more irritated with his attitude towards others here. I'm certainly not going to tread on eggshells around him just because he's a major contributor to this project. Why the heck should others in this community cower from him because of his attitude? I'm certainly not feeling guilty for "driving him away", because I've done nothing of the sort. All I've done is called him on his behaviour. If he decides that has to leave because he can't cope with people criticising the way he treats others then that's very much his own choice, and on his own head be it. If it's so hard for him to apologise and change his behaviour that he'd rather abandon a project that he's worked on and leave all his co-workers in the lurch than do that, then that is 100% his choice and that should reflect on HIS character, not on me or anyone else who calls him on that.

And frankly, he's just proven every point I made about him by doing so - he simply cannot put his ego aside and admit that his behaviour is wrong, and he'd rather stomp off in a huff, cancel projects, and let the entire community down... all because he refuses to admit he's wrong and to start treating people with some more respect? If that's the way he is, then we're better off without him.

And let me remind you that Fridger is the one that started getting personal with it in the first place. He's the one that makes snarky comments at people. He's the one that patronises instead of explains things. He's the one that snaps first and refuses to apologise. Hell, last week he failed to cite the source of a picture that he'd used to make his own scene of Titan in the Purgatory board. When I called him on that, what did he do - did he say "sorry, I'll fix that?" No. He wrote a long snarky, sarcastic reply asking me if he should cite permission for absolutely everything he uses, before correcting his initial post. The same goes here. Did he need to make his jabs at the Motherlode? No. But he did anyway. I don't care that he doesn't want to put his work on it - that's his decision. If he just said that, then that would have been fine. But to start going on about how he didn't want to put his work in the same place as other inferior material was just utterly unecessary and highly obnoxious. That shows his mentality pretty well - that even when he's obviously in the wrong, he'll never admit it and he'll never apologise for it.

And the excuse that he's having a hard time in his personal life is utterly irrelevant - that does not give him the excuse to treat people the way he does, especially when they have nothing whatsoever to do with whatever problem he has. If he finds it that hard to deal with people at the moment then he either should just work in the background and not post to the forum or he should just step back and have a break from it all til he can sort things out. But pissing other people off with his attitude and taking it out on everyone else is certainly not the way to deal with it - it is certainly not the sign of a mature contributor to this community, and it is certainly not a sign of someone who is capable of dealing with other people.

If any other developers want to leave over this, then as far as I'm concerned that's your decision too. But let me just remind you what you're here for: you're here because you want to help make Celestia a better product and to make this a community that people want to be part of. That is what everyone on this board should be wanting to do. That's what I'm here for. I certainly don't come here to start fights with people.

But the whole point of this board is to deal with other people - if you can't manage that because you think they're all stupid or beneath you, then you're clearly not suited to be posting here or to be a part of any community - that behaviour is practically sociopathic. Fridger himself has shown in previous arguments that he can't even handle the fact that the program is attracting new people who know little about programming or who aren't as able to contribute to the development of the program. He has made it clear that he finds this annoying. Less antagonistic people would be are overjoyed that the program is gaining in popularity, and would do their best to help the newcomers find their way. That's what people should be doing - not grumbling that the boards are losing their focus and snapping at people who ask what they think are stupid questions all the time.

How many times has Selden posted the same response over and over to questions that are clearly answered in the FAQ? More times than I can recall. Does he respond by saying "you idiots, stop wasting my time and read the bloody FAQ first?" No, he doesn't. He is patient - every time. I have pointed out time and time again that there are people here with more patience than Fridger who can address these "annoying people", and that Fridger can just busy himself with other things. And still he shows up and makes snarky comments.

So cut the crap about "if he goes, I go". If that's the way you feel about it, then it's quite obvious that your commitment to supporting this program and this community is not as strong as you claim it is. Being a developer isn't about stomping off in protest and leaving everyone in the lurch just because your feelings are hurt or because you want to show solidarity with someone - if you decide to be a developer then you make a serious commitment to making Celestia better and contributing to an open source project. That is why you develop textures and write code, is it not? And if you want to take a course of action that renders all the effort you put into making your addons completely irrelevant and that lets everyone else in the community down, then that's your decision - but you shouldn't expect any sympathy from anyone if you do that.

[Cham]

HOLLY COW !

A full page reply !

Please Evil One, go outside take a beer with a friend ! Life is cool.

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Sorry. If I'm going to be accused of running people out of this place, then I will defend myself. I don't have anything personal against Fridger and he's made lots of great contributions to Celestia - I just can't stand his attitude. I've been through this with Bob Hegwood too, over danielj - again, he's made lots of great contributions, but his attitude (at least at the time) stinks. Maybe everyone else is too meek or scared or apathetic to stand up to people like that, but I'm not.

Maybe everyone should calm down before making threats about leaving. Just remember that if you do that the community is going to be what suffers, and that this course of action would undermine all the work that you and all the other developers do. If Fridger has decided that he'll turn his back on everyone over this then so be it - but we don't need anyone else leaving too.

Now, I apologise to everyone else (especially to Chris) that things have blown up like this, but I have no control over Fridger's behaviour or his actions. But I think a blowout was inevitable.

[Ptarmigan]

Evil Dr Ganymede :
very well said sir ,(your post of Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:45 am) I was thinking along similar lines and started to type (*), now you have saved me the trouble and said it so much better than I could !

you said > "If he decides that has to leave because he can't cope with people criticising the way he treats others then that's very much his own choice, and on his own head be it"

No doubt you remember (but other newcomers might not) that this is not the first time Fridger has left in a huff and it probably will not be the last, so worry not that we have caused him to sulk. It is always a much more good humoured forum when he is off in a huff anyway !

(*) I hesitated in my typing because I would not like to see (or provoke) Don leaving, but then I thought that his threat to leave was a kind of blackmail and censorship ( sorry Don, but that is how it seems to me ) and at the end of one of the longest posts (up till then ) to exhort the rest of us to silence with no right of reply is not on ! (again, sorry Don)

( Cham exhorts us all to silence but he can not take his own advice, he persists in SHOUTING and swearing 'crap'
Cham, you aint helping, neither contributing anything sensible. )

Finally,
noone has the right to post and then tell the rest of us to shut up,
------ except for (1) our brill. host Chris himself, ( what is the emoticon for touching forehead and curtseying ? )
and (2) our patient, hardworked, good humoured, polite, helpful, inspirational, documentational and exemplar extraordinary, our moderator, Selden. ( more tugs of forelock)

If either of them tell me to shut up I will, instantly.
on second thoughts they need not ask, I am going to shut up now, I said my say, just like Fridger has had his say, if he cant hack it, and ignores what I said about his first two paragraphs (no problem with them) then tough .... .
this is my last word on the matter,
I think,
praps,,, )

[Don. Edwards]

Evil Dr Ganymede,
I think you need to go back and read what I wrote again. I didn't say I was leaving if Fridger goes. I said if the forum doesn't calm down and start treating everyone fairly I would might go as well. I also was not defending Fridgers behavior but his choices. As for being neutral about pointing a finger at someone the reason I didn't is simply you are not the only one who gets into arguments with him. I have had my share of disputes with him. I have simply come to the conclusion that he is the way he is and let it go as that. If you personally choose to go for his throat that is your choice. I was simply making observations and speaking my piece. So don't go jumping down my throat. I was simply trying to get things settled down.
Now as far as I am concerted this subject is closed.

Don. Edwards

[Michael Kilderry]

PLEEEEASE! Just stop that useless nonsense !

Yeah, shure, after you yer'onner.
!!
Those who would set themselves up as moral guardians of what are good and bad textures and good and bad addon themes (fictitious or otherwise) for us to play with in Celestia should look into their own hearts before pontificating upon who is better than whom, Fridger take note.

Ptarmigan, "Guest",

yes, I did take note. As a consequence of your posts that I
consider both unqualified and offensive, I have definitely made up my mind:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There will be no TextureFoundry anymore
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

None of my forthcoming textures will be made public.
This will save me a lot of time.

Sorry for initiating this thread.

Bye Fridger

Fridger, don't take any notice of what other people say when other people say that you shouldn't have your own Celestia texture website, after all, did I give up on the Lera Solar System when nobody seemed interested in my latest post about it? No! And did I make the Lera Solar System realistic because people would probably like it more if it does? No! If you've made new textures that you were planning to put on your site before there comments, put them on! I've visited the texture foundry, and some of the textures in there are really good, don't give up on your website!

But on the other side of things, you shouldn't shouldn't say which addons are bad or good and the same for textures, it's all a matter of personal opinion!

As for everyone else, I do not like how certain people seem to pick holes in things other people have posted, it just creates arguments and creates a lot of unwanted stress and aggrivation for everyone, the Celestia forum could do without this! The offenders could at least put down what they have to say more politely or just follow this old saying, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all".

Michael Kilderry

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

If I misinterpreted you Don then I apologise. But the way you phrased things made it sound very much like you were threatening blackmail. How else are we to take this:

Now there are a few you that I have seen quite plainly are going out of your way to rub Fridger the wrong way just o get a rise out of him. Lets face you know who you are and you should feel real good about what you have done. I for one am getting sick and tired you people snipping at him just for the pure joy of doing it. So why don’t you all knock it off right know or Fridger will not be the one having second thoughts about remaining involved in community and releasing textures and add-ons for Celestia.

Your post sounds very much like "if people don't stop jumping on Fridger [specifically] when he does something wrong, then I'm leaving the community too". Not like "I don't want to stay in a community where people are attacking eachother all the time".

I for one do not take Fridger to task "to get a rise out of him" or "for the pure joy of doing it" - I take him to task because his behaviour damages this community. He should know by now that I will call him on his attitude when he gets obnoxious at people. So why does he keep doing it? He either doesn't care about his behaviour (which I think is more likely), or he's the one deliberately baiting me by acting in a way to make me react all the time - And if he is doing that, then he must be pretty low to take things out on other people just to get a reaction from me.

It seems quite clear to me that a lot of people here merely tolerate Fridger, presumably because he's useful as a developer. That's certainly not a good situation - not for anyone here, and especially not for him. He ends up feeling used and unappreciated and resentful, and everyone else has to put up with his behaviour when they really don't have to. I know this, because I've been in that situation myself before, and it's not pretty - it's much better to just walk away and leave it behind, and everyone will be better off.


It's interesting to see peoples' attitudes here. Most of the people here and who have PM'd me have echoed the sentiment of "Yes, Fridger has a habit of annoying the hell out of me at times". And I was just reminded of the time not so long ago where he stalked a female programmer who joined and scared her off! Remember that?

He may be useful as a developer, but as a member of this online community his lack of basic social graces means that he is nothing but a liability. And it's not fair on either him or us to insist that he stay here. Ideally he'd stay and work in the background and not take part on the forums, but that's not likely to happen. Either way, Celestia won't implode without him.

Meanwhile, he has left us in the lurch with some unfinished work in the Binaries project (which someone must have downloaded while it was still available, surely?). I don't know where Grant is, but is there any chance that someone else can take up the reins and finish it? I didn't get a chance to look at it.

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Fridger, don't take any notice of what other people say when other people say that you shouldn't have your own Celestia texture website, after all, did I give up on the Lera Solar System when nobody seemed interested in my latest post about it? No! And did I make the Lera Solar System realistic because people would probably like it more if it does? No!

And if you don't want to do that, then don't. I'm not suggesting you stop all your work on Lera - I just don't "get it" is all, and I'm sure a lot of other people here don't either. If nothing else though, it's good practice for you when it comes to making textures.

All I'm saying to you is that you shouldn't just demand that people like, dislike, or even comment on your work here. You're making the system for your own enjoyment more than anything else, and as long as you enjoy it then you really don't need everyone else's opinions to validate it.

The offenders could at least put down what they have to say more politely or just follow this old saying, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say nothing at all".

Trust me, I've been a hell of a lot more polite, a lot more nice and more patient with you than Fridger would ever have been. The fact that I even comment on your work when everyone else doesn't says something. I'm trying to be constructive with you at least, and tell you where I think you're going wrong in your approach here. All Fridger would do - and has actually done with you in some cases, IIRC - would be to make sarcastic comments and put you down.

Either way, you carry on making Lera if you enjoy it. I certainly don't want to put people off doing ANYTHING here. But you do need to understand that it's not really the sort of thing that people here want to see, and so it's not really likely that you'll get much in the way of positive comment. (and you'll also note that people aren't really interested in the "backgrounds" or explanations to fictional worlds here either, because that isn't all that appropriate to these forums).

[Cormoran]

All,

If I may make a suggestion:

We have recently had moderation added to the site (errr... a moderator, I mean)

Ensuring people remain polite, even while being critical of other peoples work, is the moderator's role, as well as the removal of innappropriate threads or material.

In Selden, we have a moderator who has proven himself both knowledgeable and polite to all. I for one think he has a vast degree of forebearance in dealing with people's queries, both from new entrants, those if us with some degree of experience, and the real rocket scientists.

I would merely suggest that ALL behaviour within the site be subject to the moderator. Any complaints about peoples behaviour should be directed to the Moderator. This de-personalises the situation, which is a requirement as I see it.

Passions are running high, I know. I just see this as the most just way of dealing with the issues at hand.

And I'm sorry Selden if this increases your workload, but this is what Moderation is for. I would suggest perhaps that other Moderators be appointed if the workload gets unmanageable.

(Actually, this was my wife's idea, since she moderates on a number of forums and has much experience with dealing with the widely disparate opinions she encounters).

I see this as a solution that is fairest to all. Selden is ideal to perform this function, as he knows the ways of the people involved, and always seems to have a cool head.

Cormoran

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Actually, I already had formally complained to Selden (as moderator) about Fridger's behaviour a couple of weeks ago. He said that he'd write to Fridger about it. I trust Selden as a moderator but there's only so much they can do, and it would seem that whatever Selden said to Fridger evidently didn't have much effect on him.

(Believe it or not, I moderate a number of lists myself, and I am an active member of several discussion boards and mailing lists. I know how it all works ).

One problem here is that most other forum software that I've seen has a "report post" link on the thread lists, which people can use to report a post directly to a moderator - but the Celestia boards don't appear to have this. Of course, I'd much rather than it wasn't necessary to report posts in the first place...

If people report them when they get out of hand, they can post warnings on threads or PM the people involved. If those fail, then harsher punishments may be in order (like permanent or temporary banning from the forums, assuming this software has that capability). But that really shouldn't be necessary on this forum, since there are only a handful of people who cause problems here anyway.

[HankR]

Evil Dr. Ganymede,

Sorry to have to be blunt, but this "blowout" was not "inevitable" as you suggest. It was unnecessarily provoked by you. Fridger's statements were really quite innocuous. They could not have offended anyone who was not predisposed to take offense. It is unfortunate that you "just can't stand" Fridger's "attitude" and feel a need to "stand up to people like that" (in heroic contrast to everyone else, who is "too meek or scared or apathetic"). In fact it is your own attitude that is the problem here. Your personal attacks on Fridger are entirely inappropriate in this forum. They certainly do not contribute to the comity of the Celestia community. If Fridger's posts annoy you, just ignore them. There is no need for you to respond. We do not need to be reminded of your antagonism towards him. So please desist. You may have no control over Fridger's behavior or actions, but you can control you own. Please try.

- Hank

[Evil Dr Ganymede]

Sorry to have to be blunt, but this "blowout" was not "inevitable" as you suggest. It was unnecessarily provoked by you.

Oh, but of course, because there's nothing I like more than fracturing a community, right?

Maybe you keep forgetting how he would go out of his way to quote me as "Dr Evil" when he knew that it annoyed the hell out of me. I guess you'd call me having a go at him for that "unecessary" too?

Fridger's statements were really quite innocuous. They could not have offended anyone who was not predisposed to take offense.

Funny, he seems to have offended people that aren't me... or are we all part of the conspiracy against him?

It is unfortunate that you "just can't stand" Fridger's "attitude" and feel a need to "stand up to people like that" (in heroic contrast to everyone else, who is "too meek or scared or apathetic").

So explain to me why I keep hearing people saying that they get annoyed by Fridger too. Or do you think it's acceptable to sit by and watch someone bullying newcomers? Or stalking women who join the board?

His attitude is most definitely the problem, and it has been historically. And he's been getting up peoples' noses long before I got directly involved.

In fact it is your own attitude that is the problem here. Your personal attacks on Fridger are entirely inappropriate in this forum.

Oh, and I expect you'll be saying that it's OK for Fridger to antagonise and offend people here as he's been doing? His behaviour towards people he doesn't like are entirely inappropriate too. Again, you might think it's fine to stick your head in the sand while people like Fridger with their over-sized egos intimidate and stalk and generally antagonise others, but I don't.

If he hadn't been so damn patronising and holier-than-thou about the Motherlode here, I wouldn't have needed to call him on it, would I. And again, note that I am not the only one fed up with him here. It's fair enough to give someone a degree of leeway because of their behaviour - we all have our idiosyncracies - but he goes way beyond the limit.

They certainly do not contribute to the comity of the Celestia community. If Fridger's posts annoy you, just ignore them. There is no need for you to respond. We do not need to be reminded of your antagonism towards him. So please desist. You may have no control over Fridger's behavior or actions, but you can control you own. Please try.

So your attitude is just to let the bullies play, so long as they don't aim their attitude at you, is it? How very community-minded of you. You'll forgive me if I disagree. I don't see why I or anyone should stand by and let others walk all over people when they can call them on it. Let's look at some examples of Fridger's "wonderful attitude" here for a moment since he's supposedly the innocent victim here, shall we?

1) Stalking of female programmer who joined the board last year. He drives her off by tracking down and posting photos of her here without permission, and generally harassing her and showing no respect whatsoever. This after she said that she could help out with the programming (which obviously didn't happen). This is not just rude, it's downright sociopathic, misogynistic and it definitely harmed the development of Celestia. For that alone he should have been tossed out of here in short order, but he wasn't.
2) Continual antagonism towards newcomers because he believes that they don't contribute anything to the program. Refuses to accept that the forums are becoming more than just a small discussion board populated largely by developers.
3) Continual lack of tolerance and patience with newcomers.
4) Continual patronising and antagonising tone and sarcastic comments to people he doesn't approve of (again, note him referring to me as "Dr Evil" all the time out of sheer spite when he damn well knew that it annoyed me).
5) Total failure to be able to take any personal criticism at all.
6) Total failure to acknowledge that he is ever wrong about his behaviour.
7) Total failure to ever apologise for any inappropriate behaviour even when shown to be wrong.


Do you want me to go on? And do you really expect me to believe that any of us have to tolerate that sort of behaviour and attitude here?


Meanwhile, what have I done that's supposedly "negative" here?
1) I've had a go at people (two in particular - Fridger and Bob Hegwood) for their undeservingly hostile behaviour towards others on this board.
... um, I can't think of much else that's been seriously annoying for some people. Maybe you can help me out here by pointing out how my supposedly "offensive behaviour" is more destructive to this community than Fridger's has been?

Do you think it's wrong to preach patience and tolerance regarding the newcomers? Because that's what I do all the time. I may not be quite so patient as Selden, but I'm a damn sight better than the likes of Fridger in that regard. Do you think it's wrong to be annoyed when you see people being bullied and made uncomfortable by his behaviour? Fridger should damn well know better. I expect that newcomers here would have some trouble settling in til they see how the community works - that's only natural. His attitude toward them serves only to drive people away, as it has indeed done so in the past.

Yes, it takes two to tango, but I'm not the one being sociopathic here. And you can be sure that if I didn't call him on his behaviour, then someone else would - which implies that I'm not the problem here.