Ideas for next version of Celestia

[XHerakleitos]

What a great program........ I have a few suggestions I have not seen yet in the thread:

Gravity: It would be nice to turn on grav effects such that they affect you as the observer. Navigating around Jupiter could be difficult but interesting.

Then one could alter mass, density, etc with respect to bodies and see what happens. Interesting to create a body 3 times the size of Jupiter and let it come into the solar system in an odd orbit something like a comet - and see what happens.

Perhaps i havent' figured it out yet......but I would like to be able to slow down without coming to a full stop. Also to be able to keep direction of travel but look in any direction without altering trajectory.......kind of like Track but not fixed to any particular object.

[Mikeydude750]

Cloud Shadows?
What kind of video cards do you think most of us have? Most of have modest cards. If all these features everyone wants and now if cloud shadows were to be implemented it would take a video card running a gigahertz and a gig of DDR VRAM just to run with all these suggested features. We must all keep in mind that for each visual efect Chris adds to Celestia our performance is going to go down. Even if he could somehow offload more of the work to the CPU we would all end up needing super computers to run Celestia with all the wanted features. I for one would love to see some of the mentioned features added but lets get realistic here. We must pick and choose features carefully or Celestia is going to get bloated and slow. I personaly don't see a need for cloud shadows. Its a neat idea but I think there are other areas needing work.

One thing I would like to see that I don't think has been mentioned is that Saturn's rings are not casting shadows on the planet. This needs to be implented for Celestia's acuracy to be corected. I know it probably has something to do with the fact we are using semi-tranparent png images for the rings and Celestia is bypassing rendering shadows from them because of there tranparency.?? There has to be a way around this. One of Saturns main features is the fact that it has at various times in its orbit the rings cast large shadows across its cloud surface. I am sure everyone has seen pictures of Saturn with large black bands running across its face.
Well thats my 2 cents. Now I will shut up.

Yeah, I must agree. It would take TWO of ATI's R300 Cards(512 MB card..only card that can run Doom 3 at full quality) just to get 60 FPS with all these effects. Or, it could be done on my dad's computer =P

[alexis]

Cloud Shadows? What kind of video cards do you think most of us have? Most of have modest cards. If all these features everyone wants and now if cloud shadows were to be implemented it would take a video card running a gigahertz and a gig of DDR VRAM just to run with all these suggested features.

While I agree that many suggested features are presently unrealistic, why do you expect clouds to be so demanding? Only an additional rendering is required, and the effect is great; it enhances the '3D-ness' of the cloud layer. I think it's a great effect.

/Alexis

[chris]

While I agree that many suggested features are presently unrealistic, why do you expect clouds to be so demanding? Only an additional rendering is required, and the effect is great; it enhances the '3D-ness' of the cloud layer. I think it's a great effect.

/Alexis

Yes! It's not difficult at all, and only requires one additional rendering pass. One very minor complication is that you don't always want to see the shadows. For instance, a few people have experimented with using cloud layers to make more realistic gas giants; I don't think shadows would be a good idea here, so there should be a per-planet flag to enable cloud shadows.

--Chris

[Rassilon]

While I agree that many suggested features are presently unrealistic, why do you expect clouds to be so demanding? Only an additional rendering is required, and the effect is great; it enhances the '3D-ness' of the cloud layer. I think it's a great effect.

/Alexis

Yes! It's not difficult at all, and only requires one additional rendering pass. One very minor complication is that you don't always want to see the shadows. For instance, a few people have experimented with using cloud layers to make more realistic gas giants; I don't think shadows would be a good idea here, so there should be a per-planet flag to enable cloud shadows.

--Chris

Cloudshadow true...

[D.Edwards]

I have rethought the idea of cloud shadows. If it is done as Chris mentioned as a per planet flag it would be ok. As long as the shadows are faint and don't look like black blobs being dragged across the planets surface it could look very nice. Very slight to almost tranparent shadows could also work on gasgiants to help create a feel of depth to the atmosphere but but again in small amounts. To much of anything is a bad idea.

[Rassilon]

I have to agree with that...maybe have a boolean flag like I mentioned above and

ShadowColor [ 1 1 1 ]
ShadowDensity 0.0 - 1.0

Like so?

[Mad Boris]

I suppose a giant 3D 'model' of the Orion Nebula is still a long way off, but what about the 13 or so rogue planetoids that have been found there ? Would it be possible to insert these into the next version ? I'm not sure how they'd be illuminated mind you... might need to up the available level of ambient lighting to see anything.

[kirby1024]

OK, complimentary compliment on the program, and on to business...

Have you guys thought of making a somewhat more flexible Star Search engine for the more astronomically challenged users? There are a lot of times where I want to find something (at least in the solar system), and I'm at a complete loss as to what the precise name is, so I can't type it in. Having some sort of engine that'd be able to give you some suggestions on what you may have wanted to see would be great.

[Axel]

Hi,

to cloud shadows: We'd only need one additional spheric layer below the atmospheric layer to simulate that. No need for real shadows (That's what Chris meant, I guess?)

Have you guys thought of making a somewhat more flexible Star Search engine for the more astronomically challenged users?

Hmmm, some name auto-completition thing, right? There would be no way to create any treeview thing for that, I guess.

There are a lot of times where I want to find something (at least in the solar system), and I'm at a complete loss as to what the precise name is, so I can't type it in.

Hmmm, I might get confused with OU here, but I strongly think we have a good SolarSys browser where we can navigate the complete system and find every littly piece of stone?

Having some sort of engine that'd be able to give you some suggestions on what you may have wanted to see would be great.

Well, we have the TourGuide, but this is only featuring a few predifined objects. You had to create new tour destinations for it to work.

How about to recreate OU's demo mode? This switches randomly (and softly) from object to object, but is limited to the solar system as OU itself is.


->I'd suggest to create a real random demo mode which works analogue to OU's but is seriously more advanced:
Each available object/position becomes a predefined value, depending on it's distance and importance:

Value 10: Earth and anything in it's orbit.
Value 8: Any user defined positions.
Value 7: Anything in Sol's direct orbit
Value 6: Anything in orbit around a solar planet
Value 5: Any other object in the solar system.
Value 4: Any star with extrasolar planets and it's planet's
Value 3: Any other star up to 100 Lys distance
Value 2: Predifined overview positions for the Solar System (orbits on), for the MilkyWay, in Saturn's orbit, around the Magellan Clouds etc.
Value 1: Any fixed position above the *major* Earth cities (entered by longitude/lattitude or name)

Just switch back to for OU a sec, switch on demo mode and you know what I mean. It doesn't priorise positions so Eros is shown as often as Jupiter, but it smoothly changes positions in an elegant way and it switches camera modes which makes for an very intersting ride

And it doesn't let's you lost in orbit around an asteroid when starting Celestia, it takes you on it's ride.

Take care,
Axel

[kirby1024]

Hmmm, some name auto-completition thing, right? There would be no way to create any treeview thing for that, I guess.

Not necessarily. I mean, say I'm looking for a specific star, but am uncertain of it's actual name. It'd be nice if I could call up a small dialog box, type in what I think is it's actual name, and if I'm incorrect, give me a few possible star names based on what I've typed in.

Considering that the database is pretty well set up, surely this kind of thing couldn't take that much programming time?

Hmmm, I might get confused with OU here, but I strongly think we have a good SolarSys browser where we can navigate the complete system and find every littly piece of stone?

Well, that is a point, and for the most part it works, but what of stars outside the Solar System? If you don't know the precise name, it can be really hard to try and find a star...

Anyway, I'll try a few of the suggestions you wrote down. But, just something that any ol' newbie could just use like a normal Search Engine would be nice. Going through the entire database looking for a single star can be very time consuming :wink:

[Verteiron]

This is something that's probably difficult/nearly impossible to implement, but it would be such an incredible effect...

The dark sides of atmospheric planets have lightning storms. Gas giants (Jovian ones in particular) have huge, planet-spanning thunderbolts that crackle from one horizon to the next. This sort of illumination in Celestia would be completely breath-taking.

Just a wishlist item.

[Guest]

Aurorae would be nice too.... but like thunderstorms and comet-tails, they would have to be visible only at correct times.

[mark02]

We're getting a little too advanced here , but the approximate 6-day period rotation of Jupiter's Great Red Spot would be pretty awe-inspiring as well.

[abiogenesis]

Even more uses for animated textures. See how cool that would be, Chris? Thunderstorms... wow!

- a b i o g e n e s i s -

[Guest]

A lot of interesting ideas in this thread, some suggestions perhaps a bit marginal. I haven't used Celestia for that long but I think one should keep focus on the central purposes of the program.
Above all, I'd like to see new textures for solar objects depending on type of star. Now, there is no real difference between a red dwarf and a red giant or a white dwarf and lets say an A class main sequence apart from the fact sheet.

I suggest that specific textures should be made for at least:

1. Red Giants

2. Red Supergiants

3. White Dwarves

4. Brown Dwarves

I'd like to see the same for each type of main sequence stars as well (O, B, A, F, G, K, M), but the eccentric cases outside of it are the most important as main sequence stars already have some individual "look" to them because of their place along the colour spectrum.

As the second most important priority, I'd suggest special individual textures for certain well known objects on which we have a lot of info, such as Betelgeuze, an emission nebula like Orion or a supernova remnant like Crab. An exact depiction in 3D maybe might never be achieved, but it's better to at least have something in place instead of just empty space. Naturally, such specific objects would need to be gradually introduced as they could be designed, continuosly enriching the program. Yes I know, I’m asking a lot here, it would be nice if it was possible though.

As a third priority and much easier to make I would like to see improved galactic material.


Two other things:

1.) Multiple options in ways of depicting speed. Personally I'd prefer anything above c to be put in "times light speed". Much easier to get a grip on what it actually means than for example "lightyears/second".

2.) I would like to have the Voyager spacecrafts plotted so one could go there and see how far outside the Solar system they've travelled. That would be kewl!

[Snafu]

The post "New Solar Textures" was written by me, Snafu.

[dreamer]

Sky decals. Let us paint on the background sphere with input from ssc files. The SETI users among us would be eternally grateful....

[Damage]

well i suggest to make options for high qualty (high pixel size) textures... so simple users will have no need in seeking to make planets look better..... also it would be nice to mark black holes and..... make full colletion of satelites of earth...

[Mikeydude750]

I've got an idea. How about a .ssc editor that has a frontend?

You know, like a little form you fill out, and the program would generate the code for the planet/moon/satellite/asteroid/whatever else you want to put in.

It could also have a little texture previewer.