New Tour of Mars Script.

[Bob Hegwood]

Howdy Mr. G...

Thought maybe you made the final tour to Jupiter or something.

Thanks for the information. It occurred to me to add the date/time
option, but heck, I figured that anyone could do that if they wanted to. I
rather enjoy the look of the place as it *should* appear when I'm
observing it. Just my preference. Feel free to change it all you like.
(Hint... hint...)

The locations file simply made the script a little easier for someone else
to understand (I thought.) It's handy to have around too... If you'd like to
locate another feature on Mars, I figured that all you'd have to do is look
for it in the file. And... It's necessary is it not? After all I'm using the file
to render the x-mark for some of the locations I'm visiting.

At any rate, I'm busy now with a much more interesting script. This will
be a tour of Jupiter and its moons. I'll keep your (as always) good advice
in mind as I play with this some more.

Thanks Don.

Take care, Bob

[Bob Hegwood]

* Set a date/time for each observation. Some of them were totally in the dark for me.

* Higher ambient light might help in the dark spots.

Don,

I experience *none* of the effects you mention above. Why would that
be? I originally set the ambient light level to 0.50 in the script and that
seems to work fine on *my* poor limited machine. Anybody else have
this problem? Just curious.

Take care, Bob

[don]

Howdy Bob,

The script you wrote is dependent upon the time of day, as the sun needs to be shining on or near the points of interest you are describing in order to see them. Here are examples when the script is run at the wrong time of day, and why I suggested that you add date/time settings ...

-Don G.

Welcome ...


North Pole ...


South Pole ...


Face ...


Star Trek Fans ...

[Bob Hegwood]

Howdy Bob,

The script you wrote is dependent upon the time of day, as the sun needs to be shining on or near the points of interest you are describing in order to see them.

News to me Don...

I can run this script at any time and date, and I have no problems
viewing the surface of the planet. Now why would THAT be? I simply
thought that I had the ambient light level set high enough to compensate
for my tastes. Is there that much difference in displays?

If that's the case, how does anyone *ever* get a script to work correctly?

Again, does anyone else have these problems?

Don, what date/time are you using in the example you've shown us
above? I'll try it on my machine and we can compare the screenshots.

Take care, Bob

[don]

Howdy Bob,

After spending a couple hours testing and debugging, it appears that 1.3.1 p11 has problems with the SetAmbientLight script command and my ATI graphics card. This command is not executed and then the menu-based Ambient Light setting doesn't work either. Celestia has to be exited and re-started for the menu-based Ambient Light setting to function.

I tried your script with a 2-day old CVS version and the brightness is quite bright. So it appears that Chris has located and squashed this bug.

-Don G.

[Bob Hegwood]

Just a quick note to let you know that I have revised the Mars Tour Script again...

Have been working on better transitions from one object to another and
have included them in the new version. Have also updated my web page.
Have a look... http://www.home.earthlink.net/~bobhegwood

Still working on Jupiter script. This one is wearing me out! Sheesh...


Take care, Bob

[don]

Howdy Bob,

Thanks for working on this script. It's looking pretty good <smile>!

A couple of quick observations ...

You may want to add a follow or some other similar command after you select Mars. Otherwise, it just fades away into the distance -if- the display even shows it at all (using the default Celestia distribution and files).

Using the most recent CVS version, only the Basic and Multitexture rendering paths (Ctrl-v) display okay. Using the OpenGL vertex program rendering path makes Mars look washed out.

Suggestion: Trim down the mars_locs.ssc file and create your own file for this tour, so that it lists only the items you highlight in the tour (and some others). It's a big file and displays a LOT of labels, some overlapping, making it hard to see what the tour is trying to point out.

Keep up the good work Bob!

-Don G.

[Bob Hegwood]

Don,

You may want to add a follow or some other similar command after you select Mars. Otherwise, it just fades away into the distance -if- the display even shows it at all (using the default Celestia distribution and files).

I tried *all* kinds of commands after selecting Mars at a couple of places.
Usually, something weird happened, so I just left it alone. Since you
mentioned it though, I'll put 'em beck in.

Using the most recent CVS version, only the Basic and Multitexture rendering paths (Ctrl-v) display okay. Using the OpenGL vertex program rendering path makes Mars look washed out.

Basic and Multitexture are all I have. Intel has not updated their OpenGL drivers for over a year now. Sigh...

Suggestion: Trim down the mars_locs.ssc file and create your own file for this tour, so that it lists only the items you highlight in the tour (and some others). It's a big file and displays a LOT of labels, some overlapping, making it hard to see what the tour is trying to point out.

I thought about doing that, but then I thought "Can't you simply turn OFF the labels?" If you have them turned on, you aren't running Celestia for tours are you? You're trying to find something specific, or your touring the whole planet on your own. Yes?

My point is that when I'm running Celestia I *never* have the labels turned on unless I make the decision to do that. Are you telling me that people run Celestia with all labels turned on all the time? News to me. Won't this problem occur for every other location file too? If that's the case, why hasn't anyone else said something about including the file?

Sorry, I'm just confused by this.

Take care, Bob

[don]

Howdy Bob,

You may want to add a follow or some other similar command after you select Mars.

I tried *all* kinds of commands after selecting Mars at a couple of places. Usually, something weird happened, so I just left it alone. Since you mentioned it though, I'll put 'em beck in.

What kind of weird things? That would help someone to debug the source code, if necessary.

Using the most recent CVS version, only the Basic and Multitexture rendering paths (Ctrl-v) display okay. Using the OpenGL vertex program rendering path makes Mars look washed out.

Basic and Multitexture are all I have. Intel has not updated their OpenGL drivers for over a year now. Sigh...

Bummer <frown>.

Suggestion: Trim down the mars_locs.ssc file and create your own file for this tour, so that it lists only the items you highlight in the tour (and some others). It's a big file and displays a LOT of labels, some overlapping, making it hard to see what the tour is trying to point out.

I thought about doing that, but then I thought "Can't you simply turn OFF the labels?" If you have them turned on, you aren't running Celestia for tours are you? You're trying to find something specific, or your touring the whole planet on your own. Yes?

I can certainly turn them off, but your readme.txt file says, "This script requires that you have the mars_locs.ssc file installed in your Program Files/Celestia/Extras directory." Why is this, if Location display should be turned off?

My point is that when I'm running Celestia I *never* have the labels turned on unless I make the decision to do that.

Same here. My suggestion was to simply make the location file specific to your script so that the labels could in fact still be displayed. Just a suggestion Bob <smile>.

Cheers for now,

-Don G.

[Bob Hegwood]

By the way, Don...

I made some of the changes you suggested, and got (I hope) satisfactory results.
There are quite a few oddities involved with scripting and viewing though.
One reason I've tried using the "center" command, for example, is so that
the current object does not simply just disappear before you move on to the
next object. This seems to work a lot better than a simple "goto."

At any rate, thanks again for the advice.

Take care, Bob

[don]

Very nice Bob! It worked "right out of the box" on my system this time. Congratulations!

You're gettin' pretty good at this scripting business <smile>.

Cheers for now,

-Don G.

[Bob Hegwood]

Er,

Thanks for the comments, Don.

Better wait for the Jupiter script before you say things like that though.
Not this week, but maybe next I'll see if I can get it to work "Out of the Box"
again.

Great learning tool. this.

Take care, Bob

[ANDREA]

Great learning tool. this. Take care, Bob

Hello Bob, I'm enjoying your Jupiter .cel script, and at the same time I'm working with the Mars one.
What do you think on starting the tour with a far-away (36,000 Km?)Alternate Texture of Percival Lowell's Mars drawing (it's available as plmars2-texture-v3.jpg), going in a short to the "REAL" image, and then zooming on to fill the screen?
So beginning the print lines with, e.g., the following one:
"This was the result of a lot of fantasy .... and this is the scientific realty."

Another answer: I'm using, and I think many other people does the same, hi-res big textures for all the Solar System objects, so that when I open the Mars Tour I need to wait some second before seeing Mars itself (it's a 16k or 32k texture). Could you put the command preloadtex at the script beginning ? It truly helps.

Another thing: most of times when going, e.g from Io to Ganimede, the location names appear immediately, even if we are looking to the moon full image. Couldn't be better to put ON the names later, when zooming on the first feature?

These are only suggestion, naturally, and .... when for Saturn?
I'm joking, naturally, take your time.
By soon

Andrea

[Bob Hegwood]

Andrea,

If you have the location names displayed, then you're NOT running the script as it was designed to be exceuted. Simply turn OFF the location labels before running the script. Press SHIFT and & to do this.

I didn't want the labels to be shown, I wanted the locations to be MARKED so that you can pick them out from memory later when you see the image.

I didn't use the preloadtex command because I have no need for it on my humble, 1024x512 Windows XP display. I also LIKE it when the goto command takes a while to get you to the appropriate location. It seems to work in a more pleasing (at least to me) manner thay way.

By the way, if you have so many ideas on scripting these tours, WHERE are YOUR scripts?

Seems to me that you have all kinds of advice for me, but I haven't seen anything from you yet. Feel free to show me how it SHOULD be done.

No problem though... Saturn is next on the list.

Take care, Bob

[jim]

By the way, if you have so many ideas on scripting these tours, WHERE are YOUR scripts?

Take care Bob, Andrea is very busy with another Celestia project and I like to see some advances on this.

Nevertheless I want thanks all 'scripting guys'. I like very much to run scripts on my Celestia.

Bye Jens

[ANDREA]

Andrea, If you have the location names displayed, then you're NOT running the script as it was designed to be exceuted. Simply turn OFF the location labels before running the script. Press SHIFT and & to do this.

Thank you Bob, it works.

I didn't use the preloadtex command because I have no need for it on my humble, 1024x512 Windows XP display. I also LIKE it when the goto command takes a while to get you to the appropriate location. It seems to work in a more pleasing (at least to me) manner thay way.

OK Bob, it's a matter of taste and needs, you prefer so and it's OK for me too, obviously.

By the way, if you have so many ideas on scripting these tours, WHERE are YOUR scripts? Seems to me that you have all kinds of advice for me, but I haven't seen anything from you yet. Feel free to show me how it SHOULD be done..

Excuse me Bob, but I need to clarify this.
You made a very nice work with .cel scripts, and you distributed it freely to the Celestia community.
So, why do you feel so strange that one or more of your "happy, free customers" have some opinion on eventual possible improvements to your creations?
If I could be you, I would be happy to receive new ideas (just like I do in my job), and later I should decide if to use such ideas or not, as I prefer.
Mine was neither an "advice", as you say, nor a request, but only a kind and polite suggestion, nothing else.
I'm using Celestia for shows to the school children (6-18 years old) in our Obdservatory, with some success, so I'm used to understand what is and what is not appreciated and expected by them, and be sure that some of them has already seen on some photo the satellites shadows on Jupiter, and will ask me why I'm not showing them.
And the same for the Lowell's Mars Channels, obviously.
There are about 11 hundred Celestia signed people, and I think that about 90% of them read posts, use new textures, ask for help, and so on. The remaining 10% creates software, textures, add-ons, scripts, and so on. I think that this is the right percentage, and I don't think that all of us should be programmers or artists to join Celestia. Everyone makes, and must make, only what he is able to do and wishes to do, nothing more.
Moreover, please consider that all the posts, as the wonderful Celestia Scripting Guide by Don, take a lot of time to be read and understood by a not English speaking man like me, and this is slowing a lot my approach to scripting. By the way, I needed almost two hours to write this message!
Another thing: the continuous changes in Celestia has a bit modifyed my approach to the scripts: I mean that what I produced for version 1.3 is no more good for the following ones, or better, it's lacking a lot of possibilities that now I find in the latest version, and so on.
Moreover, my .cel scripts were needing one full Celestia installation for each of them, modified as needed with textures, .ssc files and so on, and this has a bit demoralized me to go on along this way.
Up to now, because yesterday's very good news by Selden have changed this scenary.

No problem though... Saturn is next on the list.
Take care, Bob

Thank you Bob, I'm sure it will be worth the time to be waited to see it.

Bob, I wrote this very long message surely not to start a war between us, but only to clarify that I think (but I may be wrong, I know) that it's better to present my own ideas to the original creator of the script, instead of modifying it as I wish, without contacting him.
I think it's more ethic, don't you agree?

My best wishes for a Happy New Year, Bob, to you and your family, and to ALL the Celestia people.
Friends?

By

Andrea

[Bob Hegwood]

Andrea,

So sorry...

I thought that you were telling me how the script SHOULD me made, and not simply offering suggestions as to how it could be improved.

Since I'm NEW to this stuff, I'm a bit defensive. I have NO patience with people who simply tell me that I'm doing it incorrectly without offering some insight as to how it CAN be done correctly.

This is how I interpreted your second post, and AGAIN I apologize.

I *did* like some of your suggestions though, so I'll see what I can do.

Thanks, Bob

[ANDREA]

Andrea,
So sorry...
I thought that you were telling me how the script SHOULD me made, and not simply offering suggestions as to how it could be improved.
Bob

Well Bob, now everything is clear to both of us, so I'm happy to be your friend again,
and to collaborate with you, if I'll be able to do it.
Cheers

Andrea

[selden]

Andrea,

You wrote

And the same for the Lowell's Mars Channels, obviously.

Obviously you do show them, right?

I think it is interesting how some objects in his maps line up with things we can see, but others are in slightly wrong places. He slightly mis-placed the three volcanos that are to the east of Olympus Mons, for example. He obviously had excellent eyesight. He just saw a little more than was actually there.

[don]

Howdy Andrea and Bob,

There certainly are days when we ALL wish that at least one of the on-line text translation programs would actually work halfway decent <frown>. Celestia has users all around the world and language is about the only "barrier" between us all. Based on my personal experience, sometimes it takes extra effort on the part of the reader to try and understand what the non-English writer was trying to write. It is not always clear <smile>.

Personally, I would like to thank all of the folks who do not use English as a first language, who have taken the time to learn enough English to write messages here in the Celestia forums, contribute their ideas, suggestions, experiences, etc. As Andrea noted, two hours to write a single message is quite time-consuming.

Cheers,

-Don G.