It's very pretty in the year 200,000,000,000 or so - Neptune's orbit becomes a Spirograph drawing.
As for the sun expansion, if we simulate planet destruction, we'd have to do planet creation as well. Now this is looking a loooooong way into the future of Celestia, but it might be nice, someday, to view the creation of the solar system... (although nobody really knows how it happened exactly, but Celestia never let the lack of facts get in the way of a good show) Obviously, you'd probably need to re-program the whole thing, (molten rocky planets, gas getting pulled into orbit around gas giant cores) but hey! This thread is just to discuss ideas!
flat earth (continues ptolemaic thread)
It's very pretty in the year 200,000,000,000 or so - Neptune's orbit becomes a Spirograph drawing!
As for the sun expansion, if we simulate planet destruction, we'd have to do planet creation as well. Now this is looking a loooooong way into the future of Celestia, but it might be nice, someday, to view the creation of the solar system... (although nobody really knows how it happened exactly, but Celestia never let the lack of facts get in the way of a good show) Obviously, you'd probably need to re-program the whole thing, (molten rocky planets, gas getting pulled into orbit around gas giant cores) but hey! This thread is just to discuss ideas!
Back to planet destruction, you know the asteroid belt? What if all those asteroids came from an ancient Moon-sized planet between Mars and Jupiter which was shattered by a comet or something? That would be pretty interesting to watch...
And finally, the conspiracy bit was about the big cover-up that space doesn't exist.
As for the sun expansion, if we simulate planet destruction, we'd have to do planet creation as well. Now this is looking a loooooong way into the future of Celestia, but it might be nice, someday, to view the creation of the solar system... (although nobody really knows how it happened exactly, but Celestia never let the lack of facts get in the way of a good show) Obviously, you'd probably need to re-program the whole thing, (molten rocky planets, gas getting pulled into orbit around gas giant cores) but hey! This thread is just to discuss ideas!
Back to planet destruction, you know the asteroid belt? What if all those asteroids came from an ancient Moon-sized planet between Mars and Jupiter which was shattered by a comet or something? That would be pretty interesting to watch...
And finally, the conspiracy bit was about the big cover-up that space doesn't exist.
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
I set the time to something like 100000000000 times faster than normal. According to the current version of Celstia, in the long-term future the Solar Sytem will explode after a few thousand years. By which I mean the planets orbits will go crazy and all that will be left is Pluto ! I am curious as to why pluto's orbit seems completely stable. Great fun to watch, shame it's not real - it's possibly a MORE interesting way to kill the Solar System than the sun going nova !
I can't resist speculating on the long-term future of this amazing program. I don't think the program would have to be re-written : by the time a version comes out which can support animations of the Solar System's formation, (I'd guess thats months or years off, if at all, but I can wait) it'll probably have been re-programmed anyway.
I think the idea of planet between Mars and Jupiter was thrown out because the gravity between Jupiter and the Sun and Mars would tear it to pieces. Still, theories change all the time.... and that would be very interesting to watch, as would the creation of the Solar Sytem. The planet's textures would have to change with time somehow - for instance Venus may have supported oceans about 3 billion years ago, according to some. And perhaps we could see a giant object knocking over Uranus and Miranda recondensing after being shattered. To say nothing of the formation of our own moon - just finding the data for recreating the formation of our solar sytem, to produce a model that results in today's layout, would be a major project in itself. But definately worth it.
If we're going to explore the far-distant past and future, then maybe we could also take into account the movement of the stars, relative to on another and around the centre of the galaxy. The Sun should have made about 50 complete orbits by now, as well as oscillating upwards and downwards through the galactic plane. Or maybe there's no point simulating this since their exact positions could not be determined. Just thinking on the keyboard....
I can't resist speculating on the long-term future of this amazing program. I don't think the program would have to be re-written : by the time a version comes out which can support animations of the Solar System's formation, (I'd guess thats months or years off, if at all, but I can wait) it'll probably have been re-programmed anyway.
I think the idea of planet between Mars and Jupiter was thrown out because the gravity between Jupiter and the Sun and Mars would tear it to pieces. Still, theories change all the time.... and that would be very interesting to watch, as would the creation of the Solar Sytem. The planet's textures would have to change with time somehow - for instance Venus may have supported oceans about 3 billion years ago, according to some. And perhaps we could see a giant object knocking over Uranus and Miranda recondensing after being shattered. To say nothing of the formation of our own moon - just finding the data for recreating the formation of our solar sytem, to produce a model that results in today's layout, would be a major project in itself. But definately worth it.
If we're going to explore the far-distant past and future, then maybe we could also take into account the movement of the stars, relative to on another and around the centre of the galaxy. The Sun should have made about 50 complete orbits by now, as well as oscillating upwards and downwards through the galactic plane. Or maybe there's no point simulating this since their exact positions could not be determined. Just thinking on the keyboard....
I have this mad theory that Venus was once home to intelligent life that completely polluted their world with CO2...
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-
Guest
Where did the number 10 billion come from ? Last I heard, estimates of the number of stars in the milky way ranged between 100 and 200 billion. I wouldn't expect Celestia to handle this - I'm Mad Boris, not Stupid Boris !
What is Moores' Law ?
1000 years per second ?
Re : ancient Venusian civillization : obviously when their planet boiled over they emigrated to Mars and built a very large face.
(Mad Boris)
What is Moores' Law ?
1000 years per second ?
Re : ancient Venusian civillization : obviously when their planet boiled over they emigrated to Mars and built a very large face.
(Mad Boris)
Moores Law
Moores Law is the "Law" that states that the speed of computer processors will double every 18 months. So far the law hasn't been broken. And it's not a real law, just a projection that's up to now accurate. There's only so much smaller we can make our circuits and such though, so in order to keep the law intact they'll have to find a way around a few barriers.
-Fleegle
-Fleegle
Anonymous wrote:Where did the number 10 billion come from ? Last I heard, estimates of the number of stars in the milky way ranged between 100 and 200 billion. I wouldn't expect Celestia to handle this - I'm Mad Boris, not Stupid Boris !
What is Moores' Law ?
To compute the gravity force between two bodies we need three multipy and a division (4 FLoating point OPeration - FLOPs). TO compute the mutual interaction between 100Billons of bodies we'll need 4*(100Billion)^2 FLOPs. Assuming we have a 1GFLOPS (Giga FLOP per Second) CPU on our PC, each time step would need a little bit less than 1270 years to be performed... leading us to an unconfortable not so much smooth animation
in Celestia.
BUT, thanks to the Moore's law our PCs will grow in performance as much as 2 times every 1.5 years, it could be that in less than 30 yeas we can have a smooth animation computed by our desktop....
We have just to be patient
Patience? In 30 years we'll complain that neutron star density is only modelled down to 1/10^128, that the 1mm/pixel Earth map takes ten minutes to download, and that Celestia 42.5.2 doesn't accurately simulate the latest parallel universe...
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-
Guest
Parellel universe ? GFlops ? Compute the mutual interaction ? What the hell are you talking about ? I believe someone accused me of going a little off topic earlier..... I think you people are even madder than me...
there's no need to simulate that many stars, just enough to make the galaxy look spiral-shaped !
-Relatively Sensible Boris
there's no need to simulate that many stars, just enough to make the galaxy look spiral-shaped !
-Relatively Sensible Boris
-
Robert van der Veeke
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 15.04.2002
- With us: 22 years 5 months
- Location: Maassluis, The Netherlands
Sum0 wrote:I have this mad theory that Venus was once home to intelligent life that completely polluted their world with CO2...
Masamune Shirow drew a manga with the title Black Magic, where this happende after the colonisation experiment on the third planet failed by means of sabotage wich also wiped out the dinosaurs.
Off course in reality if with an earth-like atmosphere it would be hard to support complex life on Venus because of the near absence of a magnetic field and the extreme long rotation period.
Robert van der Veeke
Currently listening to: Rahxephon OST 1
Many people in the world (maybe even 100 or more) don't even know who I am
- David Lees sharing his place alongside Bob Brenchley & Rocketshite -
Currently listening to: Rahxephon OST 1
Many people in the world (maybe even 100 or more) don't even know who I am
- David Lees sharing his place alongside Bob Brenchley & Rocketshite -
Heh... I would have never expected to find a fellow manga/anime fan here...
I suppose the lack of any moon around Venus would stop the creation of amino acids, which are vital for life (as we know it) and were created by the tides on Earth, or something.
I suppose the lack of any moon around Venus would stop the creation of amino acids, which are vital for life (as we know it) and were created by the tides on Earth, or something.
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-
Guest
I heard that lightning can create the amino acids neccessary for life. There's a more recent theory about the tides being important for the devolopment of life which I won't claim to know anything about.
I don't see how the extreme long rotation period and lack of a magnetic field would be detrimental to complex life. Oh wait... I suppose the lack of magnetic field might allow more solar radiation to reach the ground or something. Even so....
1) Take one Earth-sized planet.
2) Insert Earth-like atmosphere.
3) Wait for microbes to develop then set evolution simmering for 4.5 billion years....
then I personally think "life will find a way" around problems and grow and develop. Life on earth has found ways around most problems so why not Venus ?
I don't see how the extreme long rotation period and lack of a magnetic field would be detrimental to complex life. Oh wait... I suppose the lack of magnetic field might allow more solar radiation to reach the ground or something. Even so....
1) Take one Earth-sized planet.
2) Insert Earth-like atmosphere.
3) Wait for microbes to develop then set evolution simmering for 4.5 billion years....
then I personally think "life will find a way" around problems and grow and develop. Life on earth has found ways around most problems so why not Venus ?
Sum0 wrote:Heh... I would have never expected to find a fellow manga/anime fan here...
Do a little research on my name...
anyhoo...
Set to follow Sol and orbits on, zoom out to you can at least see Jupiter's orbit. Fast forward and watch as orbits start to go to Hell around the year 7000.
On 5-20-60677, it was 442K out there! No worries, in a few short months (11-28 to be exact) it'll be doen to a cool 201K. Earth's surface temp starts to wildly fluxuate from 290K(normal) to 240K around the year 45000 on a yearly basis.
Added note: Interesting. The earliest date than can be set is September 19th, 1752. Anything signifigant about that?
-
Robert van der Veeke
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 15.04.2002
- With us: 22 years 5 months
- Location: Maassluis, The Netherlands
Anonymous wrote:then I personally think "life will find a way" around problems and grow and develop. Life on earth has found ways around most problems so why not Venus ?
I did say Complex life, there are 2, maybe even 3 reasons why i think it would be difficult for complex life to evolve on Venus. This is off course without the runaway greenhouse that would make complex life impossable these days.
1. The slow rotation periode, the long nights with low temperatures, and high ones during daytime, that is not so much of a problem now with a runaway greenhouse wich works as a perfect insulator.
2. The lack of a strong magnetic field like Earth has. High energy particles will make it to the surface, these will destroy the buildingblocks of life and make it difficult for complex life to evolve.
3. It appears that Venus has a complex geologic history and turned itself insideout at least several times.
It could wel be that life did evolve on Venus in a distant past, but it is quite likely that if it even did, we would not find any not even fossil traces of it on Venus today.
Robert van der Veeke
Currently listening to: Rahxephon OST 1
Many people in the world (maybe even 100 or more) don't even know who I am
- David Lees sharing his place alongside Bob Brenchley & Rocketshite -
Currently listening to: Rahxephon OST 1
Many people in the world (maybe even 100 or more) don't even know who I am
- David Lees sharing his place alongside Bob Brenchley & Rocketshite -
Sum0 wrote:Heh... I would have never expected to find a fellow manga/anime fan here...
Theres more than you think
As I liked Fist of the North Star and a few others...like Starblazers!I'm trying to teach the cavemen how to play scrabble, its uphill work. The only word they know is Uhh and they dont know how to spell it!
-
Guest
Re : life on venus.....
I think if you gave simple life forms a chance they could evolve solutions to long days and nights and maybe high-energy particles. The geological problems might be more difficult, but we don't actually know when (or even if) Venus stopped its geological activity. So I suppose it's unlikely complex life could have evolved (without the overkill greenhouse effect), but I wouldn't rule it out.
I think if you gave simple life forms a chance they could evolve solutions to long days and nights and maybe high-energy particles. The geological problems might be more difficult, but we don't actually know when (or even if) Venus stopped its geological activity. So I suppose it's unlikely complex life could have evolved (without the overkill greenhouse effect), but I wouldn't rule it out.
Aya Reiko wrote:Sum0 wrote:Heh... I would have never expected to find a fellow manga/anime fan here...
Do a little research on my name...
No relation to Ayanami?
I wonder if the same percentage of anime fans is present on all sorts of boards, or if this is just a astronomy thing...
Anyway, now that we're all out of the closet, back to the subject... Any planet would seem quite a good place for life, but just in a different way. Venus would be heaven for a lifeform that thrives on heat and sulphuric acid (btw, any change of simulating rain fall in Celestia? That would be soooooo cool...). Mercury would be heaven for small, heat resistant photosythenisising creatures. As someone said in some film, life has a habit for adapting, or something... Give that we still know next to nothing about the surface of Mars or Venus, it would seem that extraterrestial solar life is definately not out of the question...
"I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-
Guest
I think it's possible life could evolve in extreme conditions like Mercury, Mars and Venus - or at least adapt to conditions there, given a chance - but somehow I don't think we'll find any. I think our best chance is Europa. If there's a liquid ocean then I think it's virtually certain will find life there - not just pointless algae and bacteria, but complex organisms, large enough to see.
On the subject of Celestia, rain would be good, but you'd have to zoom in loads to see it. I think lightning storms and aurora (on an 11 and 22 year cycle) would be better. Storms would need sound when you got close enough, though. How about volcanoes on Earth and Io, and nitrogen geysers on Triton ?
(Mad Boris)
On the subject of Celestia, rain would be good, but you'd have to zoom in loads to see it. I think lightning storms and aurora (on an 11 and 22 year cycle) would be better. Storms would need sound when you got close enough, though. How about volcanoes on Earth and Io, and nitrogen geysers on Triton ?
(Mad Boris)