Betelgeuse is Shrinking

General physics and astronomy discussions not directly related to Celestia
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Hungry4info
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #21by Hungry4info » 15.06.2009, 07:13

PlutonianEmpire wrote:May I ask why it wouldn't be safe to look at a supernova with the naked eye?

They're bright.

But I don't really think Betelgeuse, if it went supernova, would be unsafe-to-look-at bright.

And if the nova is as bright as the full moon, then why would that be a problem to look at if it appears to be coming from a single point? Isn't it the same light flux on the eye? And why would the sky look any bluer than it would if there's a normal full moon up anyway?
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AVBursch
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #22by AVBursch » 16.06.2009, 08:36

Before sounding the alarm on what could possibly happen, I think that it's worth noting that there are alternative explanations for why Betelgeuse has shrunk during the last 15 years. These are:

1 -- Long-term pulsation behavior.
2 -- The star isn't always spherical, creating the illusion of changing size.
3 -- The star could be in the process of transforming into a blue supergiant.

1 -- This is the most likely explantion. We already know of many stars that pulsate in size, shrinking and growing and back again. Cepheid variables and Mira variables are well-known types of stars that exhibit this type of behavior. With that said, it is possible that Betelgeuse is exhibiting a Cepheid-like behavior pattern, one where the size of the star changes but the visual luminosity does not. This could be a type of pulsating behavior that goes on a 50 - 60 year cycle that hasn't been recognized as such because astronomers have been able to resolve the star as a disk only for the last 15 years.

2 -- Betelgeuse has a relatively low escape velocity (107 km/sec) and a low surface gravity (0.0092 m/s^2). This means that the star won't always have a spherical shape. Unlike planets and dwarf planets, which are relatively rigid, stars are made of plasma, which is much more "fluid-like". This is important because random oscillations of the star's surface can create the appearance of changing size. Couple that with the known 17-year rotation period, and it's easy to imagine that a bulge in the star may have possibly rotated out of view as seen from Earth, making the star appear to be smaller.

3 -- This is the least likely explanation. However, it is plausible. The star that exploded as SN 1987A had a ring around it, indicating that the star was a red supergiant that puffed out a ring of gas before turning into a B3 supergiant. Then there is Sher 25, a B1 supergiant that has a ring of gas around it. It all comes down to how fast such changes can happen.

It is worth noting that a red supergiant that is burning helium and a red supergiant that is burning silicon will appear virtually identical to each other. Even in the spectral signature, the stars would appear identical. It all comes down to what is going on within the core of the star. It may be possible for astronomers to probe all the way to the core in the future, thus allowing for a much more accurate forecast on when the star will explode.

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LordFerret M
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #23by LordFerret » 20.06.2009, 15:22

Interesting alternate possibilities. Now, I'll be the one to ask the stupid question...
AVBursch wrote:It is worth noting that a red supergiant that is burning helium and a red supergiant that is burning silicon will appear virtually identical to each other. Even in the spectral signature, the stars would appear identical.
...how then do they tell them apart? :oops:

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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #24by Hungry4info » 20.06.2009, 16:58

If they are indeed spectrally identical, then you might be able to tell with asteroseismographic probing of the stellar interior.

If not, after the star 'splodes, then the spectra of the debris should be a clue.
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bdm
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #25by bdm » 20.06.2009, 22:10

If a star is burning silicon, better hope that it doesn't choose to do it on a weekend. A star that starts burning silicon on a Friday goes foom by Monday.

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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #26by bdm » 20.06.2009, 22:14

ajtribick wrote:But would it produce a black hole, or a neutron star?
Betelgeuse is at the low end of the mass range for supernovae. Its fate will either be a supernova with a neutron star remnant, or it won't have enough mass to ignite the last stages of nuclear burning and will end up as a white dwarf with an unusual composition.

danielj
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #27by danielj » 21.06.2009, 23:33

The star won?t be dangerous to Earth depending if the emission is in jets or is isotropic.Is there any possibility that a supernova type II or even a hypernova emit radiation in an isotropic manner?

Reiko
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #28by Reiko » 24.06.2009, 20:12

We're doomed!!! It's gonna cook us all when it blows!! 8O 8O 8O

techfanboy86
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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #29by techfanboy86 » 25.06.2009, 08:24

I read that the The cause for this reduction is unknown, as it is unclear how red supergiants behave near the end of their lives. :oops:

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Re: Betelgeuse is Shrinking

Post #30by LordFerret » 04.07.2009, 17:58

If it does happen in our lifetime, whatever it does, it will provide an incredible close-up look at the process being it's so close.


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