My Globular Cluster Package for Testing

[Cham]

I'm unable to compile with the latest SVN code. I'm getting an error in my compiler (XCode) :

/usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
Globular::Globular()
/Volumes/Nostromo/D?veloppements/celestia.build/Universal_Release/Celestia.build/Objects-normal/ppc/dsodb.o reference to undefined Globular::Globular()
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

[ElChristou]

I'm unable to compile with the latest SVN code. I'm getting an error in my compiler (XCode) :

/usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
Globular::Globular()
/Volumes/Nostromo/D?veloppements/celestia.build/Universal_Release/Celestia.build/Objects-normal/ppc/dsodb.o reference to undefined Globular::Globular()
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

It's why I was asking...

[cartrite]

globular.cpp and globular.h need to be added to your project file's build list.
cartrite

[t00fri]

globular.cpp and globular.h need to be added to your project file's build list.
cartrite

Right as I emphasized several times. Last time in the Dev list am hour ago...

Fridger

[t00fri]

I'm unable to compile with the latest SVN code. I'm getting an error in my compiler (XCode) :

/usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols:
Globular::Globular()
/Volumes/Nostromo/D?veloppements/celestia.build/Universal_Release/Celestia.build/Objects-normal/ppc/dsodb.o reference to undefined Globular::Globular()
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status

It's why I was asking...

I don't have an OSX machine, and I am using a commercial VC++2003.net compiler for Windows. That's why I emphasized that the project files that I cannot handle must be updated by someone who can, since there are NEW files in my package

Fridger

[ElChristou]

Ok, I have it!

I do have some display problem:
First, a "black hole" in the center of the cluster; I think it's due to the fact the setting of my monitor show me things that are suppose to be invisible. Here a pict:

glob.jpg

Top = normal shot, bottom = over saturated. This "black hole" is filed with blobs depending on the distance.

Second, I have some flickering of the whole cluster when I have some blobs of the Milky Way in the background. Depth sorting problems?

[Vincent]

And, being so close to both 1.6 and to the globular clusters release, would it be possible to add to .cel and .celx commands the ones regarding such objects, I mean
renderflags set/clear "globularclusters" and
labels set/clear "globularclusterss" ?

Vincent?

Andrea,

I've modified renderflags, orbitflags and labels CEL commands so that CEL and CELX share
the same table of names for these commands. That means that all names added to CELX will be used by
CEL too. As an example, there will be no need to add 'globulars' to CEL since Fridger already added it to CELX.

If Chris is OK, I'll check in this change in a couple of hours, as well as the change that adds globulars and the
new grids to the Windows View Option dialog.

[t00fri]

Ok, I have it!

I do have some display problem:
First, a "black hole" in the center of the cluster; I think it's due to the fact the setting of my monitor show me things that are suppose to be invisible. Here a pict:

glob.jpg

Top = normal shot, bottom = over saturated. This "black hole" is filed with blobs depending on the distance.

Second, I have some flickering of the whole cluster when I have some blobs of the Milky Way in the background. Depth sorting problems?

In your built version, apparently the alpha blending does not work. So you got a black hole where the the central cloud sprite should be sitting. Since blending works perfectly in Windows and Linux, DW will have to look at it for OSX, I am afraid. I cannot test MAC's.

Are you sure that you built with a virgin 4449 SVN checkout source ???
Did you activate HDR??? HDR is completely untested.

The flickering due to background objects is not specific to the new code. It also happens when you pass a galaxy in front of another one. That's ChrisL's domain...


Fridger

[Cham]

It's now working very nicely on my machine. I don't have ElChristou's problems (black hole in the middle). However, the blue-green stars are odd (unrealistic color).

Also, I think the fade in/out effect is a bit too strong.

Here's a pict :

tucana.jpg

[t00fri]

Martin,

that is comforting! So ElChristou's problem is probably elsewhere. Notably, since my code works fine for Windows and Linux.

As to the fading, that's an easy one, but we should first get used to the new stuff, before we commit ourselves to such little tuning changes.

I would be happy if people could also check out the consistency of my cross-namelist with SIMBAD. So for ANY selected globular, pressing mouse_Right->info should open up a corresponding SIMBAD page with plenty of further info. You can also check there the syntax of the alternative names. Not all SIMBAD names are displayed in Celestia, for reasons of space. But the ones that are displayed should be SIMBAD compatible!

Fridger

[Cham]

I do have some flickering on the clusters while I rotate around them (but not on all of them). This annoying effect isn't new. I've experienced this since a long time ago, so I don't think it's related to the new code (as Fridger said). Probably related to the galactic rendering.

About the fade in/out effect, I can see the periphery of the cluster is fading in first, while the nucleus is fading in last. Shouldn't be the reverse ?

[ElChristou]

In your built version, apparently the alpha blending does not work. So you got a black hole where the the central cloud sprite should be sitting. Since blending works perfectly in Windows and Linux, DW will have to look at it for OSX, I am afraid. I cannot test MAC's.

Are you sure that you built with a virgin 4449 SVN checkout source ???
Did you activate HDR??? HDR is completely untested.

The flickering due to background objects is not specific to the new code. It also happens when you pass a galaxy in front of another one. That's ChrisL's domain...

No HDR here. I think the blending works fine (at least the whole cluster disappear normally). Now, again I'm almost sure I saw this because of my screen.
Now, as I said, the cluster will fill the "hole" when I'm near enough.
Try to take a shot when the center of the cluster is not yet visible, then with Gimp try to higher the constrast to see if you have or not this "hole"...

[t00fri]

I do have some flickering on the clusters while I rotate around them (but not on all of them). This annoying effect isn't new. I've experienced this since a long time ago, so I don't think it's related to the new code (as Fridger said). Probably related to the galactic rendering.

About the fade in/out effect, I can see the periphery of the cluster is fading in first, while the nucleus is fading in last. Shouldn't be the reverse ?

I am not sure I understand what you mean. When the resolution decreases (SHIFT+mouse_Left drag) then you should first see the individual stars in the periphery merge into the boundary of the central blob that is building up. Since the center of the globular is by far the brightest area of the globular, it should fade last.

Fridger

[t00fri]

In your built version, apparently the alpha blending does not work. So you got a black hole where the the central cloud sprite should be sitting. Since blending works perfectly in Windows and Linux, DW will have to look at it for OSX, I am afraid. I cannot test MAC's.

Are you sure that you built with a virgin 4449 SVN checkout source ???
Did you activate HDR??? HDR is completely untested.

The flickering due to background objects is not specific to the new code. It also happens when you pass a galaxy in front of another one. That's ChrisL's domain...

No HDR here. I think the blending works fine (at least the whole cluster disappear normally). Now, again I'm almost sure I saw this because of my screen.
Now, as I said, the cluster will fill the "hole" when I'm near enough.
Try to take a shot when the center of the cluster is not yet visible, then with Gimp try to higher the constrast to see if you have or not this "hole"...

Christophe,

here is something you might try:

in the file src/celengine/globular.cpp

in line 452 comment out

if (wgt < 0.95f)

like so

// if (wgt < 0.95f)

and recompile.

See whether this changes the situation.
That's all I can suggest at this point.

Good luck,
Fridger

[ElChristou]

Fridger, I don't think a special treatment is needed here because Cham have no problem and...

...Since the center of the globular is by far the brightest area of the globular, it should fade last.

So I do have a problem because I don't see the center from a distance. I'll wait to see the osX project updated in the source to do more testing...

[t00fri]

Here is a nice little "action" that you can try:

• select M 4 and hit G (goto)
• Then make it into a smallish diffuse blob again with SHIFT+mouse_Left dragging
• Now you hit CTRL+F7 for some good speed , adding a few hits with the A-key until you see M 4 approaching you. When it comes closer, hit the Z-key such that M 4 slows down to some convenient speed.
• travel RIGHT through the globular without touching anything, BUT once you left it, hit the key SHIFT+* so you see it moving away from you

It's fun, try it

Fridger

[ANDREA]

Here too no black hole problems, but I found another starnge effect, dunno if this is wished or not.
Look at the images: as you see, when at very little FOV (in my example it's 3'14" in all images), the behaviour changes with distance, so that we have nicely colored brilliant stars when close, but increasing the distance starts an inversion, so that when farther away star disappear in the background color, and even farther away stars turn black.
Distances at which this occurs are very influenced by the star luminosity settings, my images were taken at Magnitude limit= 14.0
Is this correct?
Bye

Andrea

[Cham]

I suspect the fading "problem" I'm seeing may be related to ElChristou's black hole (I'm not sure. Seems to be different for me). If I zoom on a cluster (using shift-lefty-mouse), the problem is so weak and subtle I don't really notice it. However, if I move to the cluster using ctrl-left-mouse, I do see a subtle effect, like some blurry dark disk is hiding the center when I'm at some distance. That dark blurry disk is getting smaller and smaller while I move in, until it disappear completely and reveal all the center correctly (no "hole" in there). Really, this effect is so quick when I move the mouse normally, that I don't notice it. But if I move the mouse very slowly, I do notice it.

[t00fri]

Fridger, I don't think a special treatment is needed here because Cham have no problem and...

...Since the center of the globular is by far the brightest area of the globular, it should fade last.

So I do have a problem because I don't see the center from a distance. I'll wait to see the osX project updated in the source to do more testing...

Christophe, Cham

since the recompiling only takes < 1 minute, it would really be of diagnostic value if you did comment out

if (wgt < 0.95f)

in line 452 of globular.cpp and quickly recompile.

Fridger

[Vincent]

Fridger,

I get black globulars at high zoom value (see screenshot below)
Here's how you can try to reproduce the problem:
- Select M80 and zoom in until FOV reaches ~1'
- Increase distance with the mouse wheel

This only happens when the observer is in the neighbourhood of the Milky Way.
As an example, this doesn't happen when I move the observer out of the Milky
Way and try the above procedure with Pal5 instead of M80. It seems that the
problem is due to the superposition of galaxies and globulars sprites...