Motherlode Peer Group Review

[Adirondack]

FYI:

Don's "DateConverter" and MibTaz' "Lua Superset Library" are now available on the CML again.
Thanks to Bob and Vincent.

Adirondack

[BobHegwood]

FYI:

Don's "DateConverter" and MibTaz' "Lua Superset Library" are now available on the CML again.
Thanks to Bob and Vincent.

Adirondack

Also, I have tested both of these packages extensively, and they both work flawlessly on my PC now.
Again, thanks very much to Vincent for his excellent help here.

Thanks to you too, Ulrich...
You are still very much over-worked and under-appreciated in my opinion.

[Adirondack]

Thanks to you too, Ulrich...
You are still very much over-worked and under-appreciated in my opinion.

Bob,

don't exaggerate. My efforts are much lesser than yours.
If there's a hard working man on the CML than it's you.
What do I do? I only move ... files. That's all.
What do you do? You did check almost every add-on and as
long as I know you, you will have checked all add-ons soon.
I will dedicate my next add-on to you, like I did before.

Adirondack

[Vincent]

Again, thanks VERY much for your help here. You better watch out though. I now know
WHO to bother when I need to repair/fix/explain a CELX and/or Lua problem.

Seriously though, I DO thank you for this effort. More than most people would do for a
Brain-Dead old geezer like myself, and I really appreciate it.

Thanks again, Bob

Bob,

You're welcome!

[BobHegwood]

Okay,

I have started examining (in detail) some of the virtual texture packages on the Motherlode, and I have found the following very interesting image at the top of the VT chain
for the Bora Bora island VT. Would anyone have a problem with me if I deleted this crap from the Motherlode? I really don't think that we should be in the business of providing
free advertising for web sites. Do you?



This image is part of what you see in Celestia when you view the Bora Bora Island via the virtual texture.
Any thoughts? Anyone want to shoot me for bringing this up?

Thanks, Brain-Dead

EDIT: Same for the VT entitled Mexico_Cancun_L6-9_BM32k.zip file. Features a lovely advertisement for the same company web site.
Methinks I am simply going to DELETE this crap from the ML whenever I find it. PERIOD. Any problems with this?

[ElChristou]

that is a good one! (How the hell no one never saw that??)

[BobHegwood]

Appreciate the feedback here, ElChristou, but I still need direction from someone in charge around here.
Simple question... CAN I delete this junk without getting into an uproar over creators and ethics?

Selden? Chris? Ulrich? Jdou? Anyone Else?

Sorry to hurry, but this really bothers me.

[Cham]

Bob,

erase EVERYTHING which isn't of "good quality". To me, this means you should erase about half (if not more) of the addons at the ML, especially in the SF/Fantasy section. This would be a good thing for Celestia's reputation.

[BobHegwood]

Bob,

erase EVERYTHING which isn't of "good quality". To me, this means you should erase about half (if not more) of the addons at the ML, especially in the SF/Fantasy section. This would be a good thing for Celestia's reputation.

Yes, I agree, but it isn't as simple as that...
Celestia is such a quality program that ALL interests should be provided for here. If a science-fiction add-on functions correctly, then the people who enjoy using Celestia for these activities should be allowed to present their add-ons, just the same as everyone else. Besides, I usually have no idea what you mean by "quality." A Star Trek fan may consider a certain add-on to be of superb "quality" because it allows him or her to view a place in the Universe which exists no where else.

That isn't why I am upset here...
I am upset because these particular add-ons are blatantly displaying advertising.
To Hell with it...
I am going to DELETE these wherever I find them, and then you can raise Hell with Ulrich. He keeps backups in a folder somewhere anyway, so I'm off to delete these now.

Thanks, Befuddled, Brain-Dead, outraged Bob

[rthorvald]

I am going to DELETE these wherever I find them, and then you can raise Hell with Ulrich. He keeps backups in a folder somewhere anyway, so I'm off to delete these now.

Go ahead and delete! And Bob, you are in charge more than anyone here... I am afraid you have bought this responsibility with your many, many hours...

Besides, I usually have no idea what you mean by "quality." A Star Trek fan may consider a certain add-on to be of superb "quality" because it allows him or her to view a place in the Universe which exists no where else.

I absolutely agree with Cham here! And i think "quality" here is pretty objective; something that is carefully crafted, with a reasonable level of workmanship. Its uniqueness is not a factor...

Just my opinion.

- rthorvald

[t00fri]

Bob,

as might have been anticipated, I emphatically agree with Cham and Runar as to the "quality" issue. Quality is an OBJECTIVE attribute/criterion in many respects. I cannot see immediately whether some "artist" has bluntly erased or added some feature in a scientific texture, but I can see immediately, if the "artist" is NOT in command of the basic techniques of image manipulation!

And ... boy... while I don't look much into the ML, what I saw there in this respect is sometimes horrendous.

There are lots of bad mistakes that could be avoided, if only those "artists" took a little time for learning and practicing before uploading their latest creations to the ML...

Besides quality aspects, there is another criterion that I find often violated:

Originality of imagination:

notably for the SF/Fantasy domain, the work should exhibit a certain amount of imagination that is pleasing to contemplate about.

But so often one merely encounters "colored Christmas balls" after colored Christmas balls.... How many of those does the Celestia community still need? . In many cases one can tell quickly the original planet that was simply patched and recolored a bit by the "artist"...

...and so on...

Cheers,
Fridger

[BobHegwood]

Go ahead and delete! And Bob, you are in charge more than anyone here... I am afraid you have bought this responsibility with your many, many hours...

Have done...

Besides, I usually have no idea what you mean by "quality." A Star Trek fan may consider a certain add-on to be of superb "quality" because it allows him or her to view a place in the Universe which exists no where else.

I absolutely agree with Cham here! And i think "quality" here is pretty objective; something that is carefully crafted, with a reasonable level of workmanship. Its uniqueness is not a factor...

Look, let's get this straight here...

I absolutely do NOT like the fact that I even have to TEST the SF add-ons. I, personally, am sick to death of them.
Until someone other than myself makes the determination though, the ML is stuck hosting them.
The only thing I can do is try to insure that they are of sufficient "quality" in terms of how the packages are put together,
and how they work. When I test these add-ons, I make certain that they do what they purport to do, and - as long as they do -
I approve them for placement on the ML.

If you people do not wish any SF add-ons on the ML, then that ain't my problem. Like I said, I don't even like them, but it ain't up to me.

At any rate, I have now deleted ALL VT's with advertising included in them from the ML.
If someone in charge wishes me to do it, I would be very happy to delete ALL of the SF add-ons too.

[ANDREA]

Sorry for late reply, but shouldn't it be easier and simpler to eliminate the advertisement from those images?
If you want, I'll take just some minutes to do it.
Then if the author will be offended by this, we'll eliminate definitively from Motherlode.
My opinion, obviously.
Bye

Andrea

[Cham]

Until someone other than myself makes the determination though, the ML is stuck hosting them.

I don't agree. The ML is certainly NOT stuck with the crap. On the contrary, in the name of the reputation of Celestia, some cleaning is necessary. Throw the crap out of the ML ! And maybe my appreciation of the ML will raise a bit . This could even convince me to upload many unpublished addons I've made during the last year.

[BobHegwood]

Sorry for late reply, but shouldn't it be easier and simpler to eliminate the advertisement from those images?
If you want, I'll take just some minutes to do it.
Then if the author will be offended by this, we'll eliminate definitively from Motherlode.
My opinion, obviously.
Bye

Andrea

Have done for my own installation, but it ain't my job to rewrite every add-on that gets placed on the ML.
Sorry if that sounds less than friendly, but I am really sick of this crap. Maybe I should retire? You want the job?

EDIT:

I don't agree. The ML is certainly NOT stuck with the crap. On the contrary, in the name of the reputation of Celestia, some cleaning is necessary. Throw the crap out of the ML ! And maybe my appreciation of the ML will raise a bit . This could even convince me to upload many unpublished addons I've made during the last year.

What do you think I have been doing all of this time?

[Cham]

What do you think I have been doing all of this time?

Raise the bar !

[Cham]

Here are two OBJECTIVE criteria to define "bad" addons :

1. Addons using textures having polar pinch effects (strong deformations at the poles) and other borders problems.
2. Addons including "custom" textures already used in other addons. Addons using textures without originality, etc.

With these criteria, you could already erase about 50% of the SF/Fantasy addons at the ML.

[rthorvald]

so often one merely encounters "colored Christmas balls" after colored Christmas balls.... How many of those does the Celestia community still need?

Well, this is sort of an editorial decision: budding artists have to start out somewhere, and naturally, most of them have a ways to go before their work is "fit for consumption". The question is, should the ML be the playground for it?

As i have advocated earlier, you could solve it by adding a "Sandbox" category to the site, and let newbies loose there. Then only transfer individual works into the proper catalog from there when they display some value. This would still make the ML accessible to anyone, while lifting the catalog to a higher level.

Now, from what i understand, Bob does not want the job of Judge. So, let the users take care of it themselves, then. Use a discussion forum, and only catalog whatever floats to the top. I don?t mean on the ML, i mean here at shatters. One could actually just use the existing Add-Ons forum, it is more or less its function nowadays anyway. That would be very simple - if it isn?t discussed - favorably - in the Add-Ons forum, let it stay in the Public Sandbox, still accessible to everyone but not part of the main catalog.

- rthorvald

[t00fri]

I find Runar's proposal quite clever.

The Sandbox model also implies the psychological advantage for the acting "referee" that he/she doesn't need to turn down many submissions. He/she simply doesn't "lift them up" to the "official" ML catalog level if value is lacking. That sounds much easier to accomplish than saying NO all the time!

Let me add that at CM we apply a scheme that is not unlike the mentioned one, when it comes to inviting someone to become a listed "CM friend" with own resident WEBspace etc.

That scheme also matches what we do in professional science: not every young student who is eager to publish his latest "theory" will be able to do so. Some significant amount of /proven/ technical skill and physics accomplishments is required first. Normally it's the supervisor who will know when it's time for giving "green light"...

Fridger

[chris]

Now, from what i understand, Bob does not want the job of Judge. So, let the users take care of it themselves, then. Use a discussion forum, and only catalog whatever floats to the top. I don?t mean on the ML, i mean here at shatters. One could actually just use the existing Add-Ons forum, it is more or less its function nowadays anyway. That would be very simple - if it isn?t discussed - favorably - in the Add-Ons forum, let it stay in the Public Sandbox, still accessible to everyone but not part of the main catalog.

I'm willing to reorganize the Add-ons forum here to accommodate such a change. I've been thinking about changing it anyhow: splitting the forum into categories for realistic, speculative, and science fiction add-ons.

--Chris