Celestia Forums

Hello Celestia Community!

I'm a senior year high-school student who has been playing with Celestia for quite a long time. For my Physics ISU, I am doing a very general presentation and report on Celestial Mechanics, and what better way to liven up a bunch of equations than showing them in action? Now, I'm completely new to actually doing anything else than fiddling with Celestia, so I'm poking about scripts and seeing how they work. I'm just wondering if anyone could suggest anything really nifty I could show with Celestia. My plan so far is to start from Earth, examine the Earth and Moon, and then the Solar System as a whole. I know I'll need something nifty after my general prerequisite math spiel. Conics, Kepler and spherical trig... that'll cure amnesia!

Well, you wouldn't be able to show the actual Orbital Dynamics equations in action using Celestia, because it doesn't simulate gravity or interaction between bodies. Janus and Epimethus are for example perpetually on opposite sides of Saturn all the time -aren't those supposed to be the ones in horseshoe orbits, that swap places with eachother?

You could, however fiddle with orbits and xyz paths and so on to show what WOULD happen if it did simulate gravity, but you'll have to do all the maths outside Celestia.

hdw wrote:Hello Celestia Community!

I'm a senior year high-school student who has been playing with Celestia for quite a long time. For my Physics ISU, I am doing a very general presentation and report on Celestial Mechanics, and what better way to liven up a bunch of equations than showing them in action? Now, I'm completely new to actually doing anything else than fiddling with Celestia, so I'm poking about scripts and seeing how they work. I'm just wondering if anyone could suggest anything really nifty I could show with Celestia. My plan so far is to start from Earth, examine the Earth and Moon, and then the Solar System as a whole. I know I'll need something nifty after my general prerequisite math spiel. Conics, Kepler and spherical trig... that'll cure amnesia!

What is a "Physics ISU"?

Please remember you are not talking only to America but to the whole world .

How should we Europeans know what an ISU is??

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:What is a "Physics ISU"?

Speaking as a European I can tell you (after a 30 second search) that it's an Independent Study Unit, which is probably as much as you need to know to see the purpose of this post, Fridger.
Have you considered doing an Internet search instead of harassing new posters?

Grant

granthutchison wrote:

t00fri wrote:What is a "Physics ISU"?

It's an Independent Study Unit, which is probably as much as you need to know to see where this poster is coming from, Fridger.
Have you considered doing an Internet search instead of harassing new posters?

Grant

Why should I spend my time searching the Internet?
Of course, I know how to find that out...

I guess abbreviations with obviously national meaning should be explained in an international forum.

This has nothing to do with people being new to Celestia...

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:Why should I spend my time searching the Internet?

Because it takes less time than making an irritating post and waiting for someone else to answer your question?

t00fri wrote:I guess abbreviations with obviously national meaning should be explained in an international forum.

So why did you use ansatz in a recent post? Not only is it a German word, it has a specialist scientific meaning that is unknown to (apparently) most Germans as well as most English speakers. You can't have it both ways.

t00fri wrote:This has nothing to do with people being new to Celestia...

It does, to the extent that old Celestia hands know your style and carry on regardless. But now you've just attacked a schoolchild for his/her lack of internationalist sensibilities. I find it embarrassing.

Grant

granthutchison wrote:

t00fri wrote:Why should I spend my time searching the Internet?

Because it takes less time than making an irritating post and waiting for someone else to answer your question?

t00fri wrote:I guess abbreviations with obviously national meaning should be explained in an international forum.

So why did you use ansatz in a recent post? Not only is it a German word, it has a specialist scientific meaning that is unknown to (apparently) most Germans as well as most English speakers. You can't have it both ways.

t00fri wrote:This has nothing to do with people being new to Celestia...

It does, to the extent that old Celestia hands know your style and carry on regardless. But now you've just attacked a schoolchild for his/her lack of internationalist sensibilities. I find it embarrassing.

Grant

Sorry Grant,

but for me these things are really a matter of principle.

I think this is not the place to discuss this issue further. But certainly I can argue here...

As to the word "Ansatz": I used it in a discussion where by the very subject and level of the discussion, it was entirely clear from the onset that only "scientifically infected" people would be able to follow anyway. "Ansatz" is definitely used and known /internationally/.

In general, I think I take care to explain technical and other terms I am using, as much as is possible.

Certainly /every/ German knows what Ansatz means. No doubt about that. What may be unknown to many is that there is no appropriate translation of that word into English (cf. Maxim).

I think I have not attacked anybody. It was a reminder...Not more not less.

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:... but for me these things are really a matter of principle.

I can see that.
And for me, this is a matter of principle: That when we encounter one of those rare school-goers who are interested in physics and astronomy, we greet them and encourage them.
You did neither.
I felt it worth remarking on.

Grant

hdw wrote:Conics, Kepler and spherical trig... that'll cure amnesia!

I suggest that you need to skip outside the solar system and create a little "demonstration area" around another star. Then you can use ssc files to create add-on planets that demonstrate basic principles of celestial mechanics: you can demonstrate really anything you're interested in. The advantage of using another star is that you can lay out your various orbits without worrying about the existing planets and asteroids around the Sun.

Grant

granthutchison wrote:

t00fri wrote:... but for me these things are really a matter of principle.

I can see that.
And for me, this is a matter of principle: That when we encounter one of those rare school-goers who are interested in physics and astronomy, we greet them and encourage them.
You did neither.
I felt it worth remarking on.

Grant

Grant,

since many years I am continuously training/supervising PhD and Diplome students in theoretical physics.

No one of my students has ever complained of being discouraged... To the contrary!

I think I have also motivated quite a few people in this forum to get involved with science issues they have not thought of before. Just have a look at the number of visits etc of my threads. Few are below 500, many above 1000...

And not unrelated, perhaps, our daughter is just finishing her Diplome in the same subject. After all, she decided to become a physicist when she was in high-school, just like 'hdw' above.

I think you are just trying to "shoot" the wrong target

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:Certainly /every/ German knows what Ansatz means. No doubt about that. What may be unknown to many is that there is no appropriate translation of that word into English (cf. Maxim).

That's true. The sientific meaning is the same as the usage of 'Ansatz' in ordinary school mathematic lessons. I just was surprised by the international usage. As my contact to sience papers is limited to mostly computer sience and a few geosience, I didn't met that usage before. However 'Ansatz' may be quite uncommon to non-german speakers with no physical/mathematical sientific background.

granthutchison wrote:It does, to the extent that old Celestia hands know your style and carry on regardless. But now you've just attacked a schoolchild for his/her lack of internationalist sensibilities. I find it embarrassing.

Well, for me that special post above didn't look very attacking. Nearly neutral. I remember others far more agressive.

t00fri wrote:since many years I am continuously training/supervising PhD and Diplome students in theoretical physics.
No one of my students has ever complained of being discouraged... To the contrary!

It shouldn't be forgotten, that it's a complete different thing to hear someone speaking and see his gesturing and mimics simultaneously, than to just read the written word. In the first case everyone can fully qualify the amount of irony, serenity, etc. that guide the words and give the meaning.

maxim

Thank you granthutchison, and Evil Dr Ganymede for your suggestions, I'll definitely flip through the documentation for that stuff - great practical way to demonstrate the research done, too.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter, but I do not understand why it is assumed that I am an American. Although I will try to be more conscientous next time, I hope you don't believe that I represent a group of people so self-centred that they expect others to know about somewhat regionalistic acronyms. My apologies again, a slip of the tongue, a few misplaced keystrokes.