Celestia Forums

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This video was tricky.
(Where did my weekend go?)

Hope you enjoy it .

PS. Thanks to Clive and OS for your kind comments on my previous video (posted here). I also posted that video on the Orbiter forum etc to fav reviews, and quite a few folk got interested in Celestia as a result.

Quiet forum. Great sim -

Space Time (28mb)


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Version 2 is now uploaded and features refinements
on version one, plus higher res video.
Get it for your video collection here....

Feedback and comments are both welcome and helpful.


Cheers.

Tin

Space Time version 2 (38mb this time )


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Sample comment from forums..
(in case anyone requires a review)

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"Tinfish, all I really have to say, is that this one is moving. It's of a quality that I would expect from a professional, which you have now proven to be. This is not just a video. This is a production. I would nominate this for some kind of short independant film award.

Anyone reading this who has not yet watched this video, trust me... its worth it.

Sincerely,
E. C".


====

Hello Tinfish,

Personally I haven't yet downloaded your work but don't worry too much about comments and else because many people here won't download 38Mo just for a video... I mean there is lot of stuff to download to use within Celestia before downloading anything else...

So don't worry, you will have my opinion as soon as possible.

Later.

Hello Tinfish,

I had a look at your video, with mixed feelings, though. But I understood you wanted honest opinions, right?

-- A trivial remark to start: If your video involved Celestia, then Celestia should be acknowledged in writing (in the video).

-- Usually, /good/ films/videos have a story to tell. In case of your video this crucial aspect was all but obvious to me! There were lots of blendings in quite mediocre quality covering many issues that are fashionable these days, notably among people from a certain age window: some war scenes, some mystical E=mc^2 without content, some voices reciting some sentences about string theory, some space ship noises that we know from certain movies, flowers, a little bit of nature, nice animals, again some spaceship/satelite views, etc...

Yes all that fits to the video title "Space Time", but...

-- Personally, as a theoretical physicist, I am quite "allergic" as to such unfortunately popular, pseudoscientific displays, in particular if E=mc^2 and string theory slogans are mixed in. These concepts are very deep, and for sure they can only create confusion and at best a feel of mysticism if presented as you did.


-- Now, perhaps your video was meant purely as a "background" performance for relaxing and listening music etc....Hmm, in such case I am afraid, your video quality was by far not good enough, notably these low-quality foregound overlays along with the quite defocussed, lores background scenes did really not excite me too much.


Bye Fridger

Dammned after that I'm wondering if I will download those vids...

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Re Tinfish video - Space Time
----

Fridger wrote: ......

Hello Tinfish,

I had a look at your video, with mixed feelings, though. But I understood you wanted honest opinions, right?

-- A trivial remark to start: If your video involved Celestia, then Celestia should be acknowledged in writing (in the video).

-- Usually, /good/ films/videos have a story to tell. In case of your video this crucial aspect was all but obvious to me! There were lots of blendings in quite mediocre quality covering many issues that are fashionable these days, notably among people from a certain age window: some war scenes, some mystical E=mc^2 without content, some voices reciting some sentences about string theory, some space ship noises that we know from certain movies, flowers, a little bit of nature, nice animals, again some spaceship/satelite {sic} views, etc...

Yes all that fits to the video title "Space Time", but...

-- Personally, as a theoretical physicist, I am quite "allergic" as to such unfortunately popular, pseudoscientific displays, in particular if E=mc^2 and string theory slogans are mixed in. These concepts are very deep, and for sure they can only create confusion and at best a feel of mysticism if presented as you did.


-- Now, perhaps your video was meant purely as a "background" performance for relaxing and listening music etc....Hmm, in such case I am afraid, your video quality was by far not good enough, notably these low-quality foregound overlays along with the quite defocussed, lores background scenes did really not excite me too much.

Bye

Fridger

Hullo Fridger.

Thanks for taking the time to check out my video and comment on it.

First of all, regarding your concern that I never mentioned Celestia in the credits. I'm afraid that you failed to spot that there were no Celestia clips in this particular video. However I thought that members of this forum would still like to check the video out, as it has been popular on other space/sim forums. I'll no doubt include Celestia clips in my next video! -

Regarding your comment that - "usually, good videos have a story to tell", and, that in your opinion my video featured 'pseudoscientific displays' and "defocussed background scenes which did not get you "excited too much".

I should like to point out that the aim of my videos isn't to get people 'excited'. If you want 'excitement' you simply need to but some Hollywood movies instead. -

Secondly, I wasn?€™t aiming to produce a scientifically factual video to entertain the many theoretical (and armchair) physicists in our society
(a notoriously difficult group to please since their often overworked intellects often tend to analyse things too deeply) -

No, I simply make short flight-sim videos of an abstract/art kind (not a term many 'theoretical' physicists are comfortable with, I know).

This particular video was simply that: a short 5 minute art movie with a space/science slant which - if viewed with an open and non-judgemental mind, may well lead the viewer* to perhaps pause and wonder at their own lives and the wider world around them - without actually having to analyse and dissect the video frame by frame for its content, quality and scientific value.

(*Sample reviews enclosed).

Once again, thanks for taking the time.

Best regards.

Tinfish
UK


"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality."
~ Albert Einstein


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Sample quotes from forum members

(Note: These samples are included not as an ego booster for myself, but simply as an example of how different people from different walks of life have felt about to my rather abstract video, in the same way I felt while producing it, and aimed to create for my viewers.



?€?A very ethereal video. Contains an ambience of spirituality not found in most science related features.
And the inclusion of that quote by Rumi was just beautiful.

Marvellous video, Tinfish!?€

I look forward to seeing what you can do with Celestia.

Tinfish wrote:Hullo Fridger.

Thanks for taking the time to check out my video and comment on it.

First of all, regarding your concern that I never mentioned Celestia in the credits. I'm afraid that you failed to spot that there were no Celestia clips in this particular video. However I thought that members of this forum would still like to check the video out, as it has been popular on other space/sim forums. I'll no doubt include Celestia clips in my next video! -

I know, actually. In fact my first respective formulation was that in case your video does NOT use Celestia, it should really go to the Purgatory. The main boards are really reserved to Celestia related material. Since you alluded to Celestia, however, I reformulated my sentence in the above manner.

Regarding your comments that "usually, /good/ films/videos have a story to tell"; .and, that in your opinion my video featured 'pseudoscientific displays' and "defocussed background scenes which
did not get you "excited too much".

I should like to point out that the aim of my videos isn't to get people 'excited'. If you want 'excitement' you simply need to but some Hollywood movies instead. -

++++++++++++++
Sorry, this might have been a 'Germanism', but I meant to use 'being not excited' in the more abstract sense: a polite way of saying that I didn't like your video very much!
+++++++++++++

Secondly, I wasn?€™t aiming to produce a scientifically factual video to entertain the many theoretical (and armchair) physicists in our society
(a notoriously difficult group to please since their often overworked intellects often tend to analyse things too deeply) -

Your video was clearly not addressing any serious scientific issues. No danger of misunderstanding here . That by itself would have been perfectly OK with me! But I dislike pseudoscience being mixed in: this E=mc^2 floating by, Einstein's voice, phrases about string theory etc.

Science phrases being merely used as a mystical "decoration" ...

I can very well distinguish and most appreciate a WELL-made NON-scientific video/film. Believe me.

No, I simply make short flight-sim videos of an abstract/art kind (not a term many theoretical physicists are comfortable with, I know).

Again, besides the point. I very much like abstract art filled with overboarding creativity and originality! But your video did not strike me to belong in that category.

My critique centered precisely in the composition of the material you used for blending: it's more or less the usual, popular mix, i.e. not very original. Some space views, some war scenes, nature close ups,... NO content, no story, just floating images blended together.

As I said previously. This can also be nice for particular occasions. "Relax-movies" so to speak. But then I would rather like to see really good video quality instead...

Bye Fridger

PS: Your sample Forum reviews impress me equally little as the (unqualified) reviews at Amazon or Ebay . Sorry. Of course I wish you that everybody else finds your video great. I can very well live with my personal opinion

Tinfish wrote:This particular video was simply that: a short 5 minute art movie with a space/science slant which - if viewed with an open and non-judgemental mind, may well lead the viewer* to perhaps pause and wonder at their own lives and the wider world around them

While i appreciate what your aim is, i must agree with Fridger in that the video lacks a focus. Without this, it is just a collage, and while collages can be interesting in themselves, 5 minutes is much too long without a sharper focus.

If you cut it down to 30 seconds, i believe it may appeal more to our "sense of wonder" - with sharp editing, of course: much longer than that, and the viewer will find himself wanting more out of it than just loosely connected graphics and sound: you will need something to bring the viewer along (not neccecarily a story).

To sum it up, the directing is too loose and the content somewhat too fragmented to work at that lenght.

But thank you for the effort, and keep working at it

-rthorvald

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rthorvald wrote:

Tinfish wrote:This particular video was simply that: a short 5 minute art movie with a space/science slant which - if viewed with an open and non-judgemental mind, may well lead the viewer* to perhaps pause and wonder at their own lives and the wider world around them

While i appreciate what your aim is, i must agree with Fridger in that the video lacks a focus. Without this, it is just a collage, and while collages can be interesting in themselves, 5 minutes is much too long without a sharper focus.

If you cut it down to 30 seconds, i believe it may appeal more to our "sense of wonder" - with sharp editing, of course: much longer than that, and the viewer will find himself wanting more out of it than just loosely connected graphics and sound: you will need something to bring the viewer along (not neccecarily a story).

To sum it up, the directing is too loose and the content somewhat too fragmented to work at that lenght.

But thank you for the effort, and keep working at it

-rthorvald

Hi RT.

Thanks for watching.

I?€™m sorry, but I had to laugh at your suggestion that cutting the video down by 30 seconds would help appeal to the viewers ?€?sense of wonder?€™. :
The reason I find this suggestion amusing is because, not only is 30 seconds far too short to make much of a difference, but the fact is that I actually ?€?increased?€™ the video?€™s length significantly in version 2 and received numerous favourable comments - from all the various forums that I post to (but none from this one funnily enough) - with many people saying that they found version 2 more absorbing than v1 (see sample quotes above).

Perhaps you missed the sample quotes that I enclosed in my previous post showing that the video does work for very many people, and that instead of focusing on fragments of the video in an analytical way (which some people will no doubt do) many others will and have got the big picture of what I was aiming to put across in the video. ?€?You either get it or you don?€™t?€™, is what I?€™m trying to say.

I should also say at this point that I?€™m not trying to justify the success or otherwise of this video. With a wide fan-base for tinfish videos on 20-plus forums, I don?€™t need to do that.

But this forum - for some odd reason - is different, way different to any of the others that I post to (maybe its the Twighlight Zone of the Internet?)
?€¦ and while I can understand and excuse Fridger?€™s negative comments and worldview, I find it odd that you should also be following his same line of argument almost word for word.
Perhaps you are a physicist too? -

Thank you again for your opinion and suggestions. But I'm doing fine, thanks.

Best regards.

Tin

"Are you really sure that a floor can't also be a ceiling?"
~ M.C. Escher

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Tinfish wrote:....maybe its the Twighlight Zone of the Internet?...

you must be right!!!

(I wonder where the hell are the other guys... )
(BTW, still haven't download )

Fridger wrote:

PS: Your sample Forum reviews impress me equally little as the (unqualified) reviews at Amazon or Ebay Wink . Sorry. Of course I wish you that everybody else finds your video great. I can very well live with my personal opinion

LOL -

Hi again Fridger.

Of course you are welcome to verify these quotes by putting sections of them into Google, or by checking out Orbiter forum, fs2004 forum and all the others I post to. Simply PM me and I will provide you the links.
(But I think you will not be satisfiied until those (unqualified) reviews are qualified as Peer reviewed papers - (You 'mad scientists' are all the same)

As you rightly say: you can 'very well live with your personal opinion'. .
At the end of the day thats what it is: your own personal opinion, which is based on your world-view, which in turn is based on your physiology.
I'm only sorry that instead of seeing the big picture of my video, you seen only the small pieces - much in the same way as someone may compile a jigsaw but miss the overall whole for the fragmented.

This video obviously isnt a crowd pleaser though, so I make allowances.
...and I thank you again for your feedback.

Best regards,

Tin


"Of course there's a lot of knowledge in universities: the freshmen bring a little in; the seniors don't take much away, so knowledge sort of accumulates".
~Abbott Lawrence Lowell


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ElChristou wrote:

Tinfish wrote:....maybe its the Twighlight Zone of the Internet?...

you must be right!!!
(I wonder where the hell are the other guys... )

(BTW, still haven't download )

LOL

HI EL.

Now dont rush into this EL - Take your time, think about it,
and maybe get broadband installed -
(its only minutes downloading on broadband, so no big deal either way).

Cheers.

Tin


"We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality."
~ Albert Einstein

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Tinfish wrote:.

....

Hi RT.

Thanks for watching.

I?€™m sorry, but I had to laugh at your suggestion that cutting the video down by 30 seconds would help appeal to the viewers ?€?sense of wonder?€™. :
The reason I find this suggestion amusing is because, not only is 30 seconds far too short to make much of a difference,

please read Runar's comments carefully: he did not suggest to cut down the video by 30 seconds but rather to 30 seconds. That makes 4minutes and 30 seconds difference to the original length.

?€?You either get it or you don?€™t?€™, is what I?€™m trying to say.

Isn't that worn-off sentence a bit too cheap? I thought you were out for honest comments and criticism?

....
tinfish videos on 20-plus forums, I don?€™t need to do that.

++++++++++++++++++++++++
Selden, I request this uninvited presentation, not related to Celestia to be transferred to the Purgatory! As the author states this forum is one of 20 where he tends to show his videos...
++++++++++++++++++++++++

?€¦ and while I can understand and excuse Fridger?€™s negative comments and worldview,

I actually don't have a bit of a negative worldview. This is getting increasingly bizarre...I have made most enthusiastic comments about people's graphical art presented here and elsewhere...I just don't do this EACH time

Bye Fridger

t00fri wrote:I actually don't have a bit of a negative worldview. This is getting increasingly bizarre...I have made most enthusiastic comments about people's graphical art presented here and elsewhere...I just don't do this EACH time

Twighlight Zone effect....

Tinfish wrote:...
LOL

HI EL.

Now dont rush into this EL - Take your time, think about it,
and maybe get broadband installed -
(its only minutes downloading on broadband, so no big deal either way).

Cheers.

Tin

You might be surprised...ElChristou has very high (professional) standards. Often, he is only friendly BEFORE having seen people's work

Bye Fridger

ElChristou wrote:

t00fri wrote:
Twighlight Zone effect....

Yes!

..and this, too ....>

Selden, I request this uninvited presentation, not related to Celestia to be transferred to the Purgatory! As the author states this forum is one of 20 where he tends to show his videos...

Now I'm starting to see why it might be the Twilight Zone -
What a way to treat new members.

please read Runar's comments carefully: he did not suggest to cut down the video by 30 seconds but rather to 30 seconds. That makes 4minutes and 30 seconds difference to the original length

Gosh, a 30 second video! Now i know we have some real jokers on the forum.

Thanks for the laughs guys. Got to get to bed now. Getting late.

Tin

PS: Fridger, have you aged since that photo was taken of you,
or are you forever young in Space-time?

Thanks again,

Best regards,

Tin

-

I?€™m sorry, but I had to laugh at your suggestion that cutting the video down by 30 seconds would help appeal to the viewers ?€?sense of wonder?€™

Sorry for being unclear... A collage at 4.5 minutes is just as challenging as one at 5, given the other issues i discussed.

Perhaps you missed the sample quotes that I enclosed in my previous post showing that the video does work for very many people

That isn??t relevant for my critique - if i took it into account, it wouldn??t be critique.

?€¦ and while I can understand and excuse Fridger?€™s negative comments and worldview, I find it odd that you should also be following his same line of argument almost word for word.
Perhaps you are a physicist too?

No, i am afraid my career took a slightly different direction. But i assure you i am just as qualified to evaluate a video as any physicist

Thank you again for your opinion and suggestions. But I'm doing fine, thanks

Good.

Of course you are welcome to verify these quotes

I don??t think anybody doubt your quotes are correct.
- rthorvald

No, i am afraid my career took a slightly different direction. But i assure you i am just as qualified to evaluate a video as any physicist

Sorry, but when I look at your photo (above), and Fridger's photo, plus some of your previous comments, I find that hard to believe.

That isn??t relevant for my critique - if i took it into account, it wouldn??t be critique.

Your sounding like a wire-haired scientist there -
Twighlight effect!

Sorry for being unclear... A collage at 4.5 minutes is just as challenging as one at 5, given the other issues i discussed.

I dont do collages. But I'm relieved to hear you didnt actually suggest
a 30 second video! LOL -

Best regards,

Sleep well in your world.

Tin