Celestia Forums

Got a question for any of you M.D.'s of PhD's... I need to find a way to blow someone up in an MRI (for a story, don't worry).

I'm thinking the simple way is if a guy had too much ferromagnetic material in his body... kaboom. He doesn't need to blow up, just rupture say his heart. But would he be dead already from too much, say, iron in his body before he made it into the MRI?

What I'm imagining is some sort of compound or nanoparticle that is ferromagnetic and that has the potential to build up in someone's tissue (either b/c they've been breathing it in or someone spiked, say, their insulin shots and they've been injecting it) without causing too much damage in the short-term... until the MRI. Anyone know of such a thing?

Thanks,
Steven

How about a loose orthopedic screw somewhere near the spinal column (in that case the guy obviously must have broken his back once) Or is chirurgical steel supposed to be non ferromagnetic?

julesstoop wrote:How about a loose orthopedic screw somewhere near the spinal column (in that case the guy obviously must have broken his back once) Or is chirurgical steel supposed to be non ferromagnetic?

Thanks Julesstoop... but I forgot to mention, whatever is in the victim's body has to be something he wouldn't know about and serve the dual function of being a poison in some way.

For example, I take my Mystery Material and slowly feed it to the victim over a period of months, knowing that eventually, he will develop a fatal blood disease that is untraceable. I am all excited about my evil plan to commit an untraceable murder... until the victim gets an MRI - at which point this Mystery Material, which has built up in his issues, has enough ferromagnetism in it to kill him (and the more graphic, the better).

I have yet to find such a substance... yet, knowing how large the possibilities are, find it hard to believe there isn't something out there that would fit the bill.

Well, any substance that is in the blood and needs to be wasted, will end up in the liver to be metabolized. So I could imagine a large concentration of this stuff sitting in the liver, and the metabolized by-product (which is being re-released into the blood stream) being your actual slow-poison.
I'm still pondering though how this concentrated substance could be ferromagnetic..

Have you considered an x-ray scanner? For in that case they would 'see' the concentration of metals in the liver. Next they would probably be conducting a follow up investigation with some contrast fluid(?) This stuff in it's turn might react with your posion..
Not by far as elegant though, I must admit..

julesstoop wrote:I'm still pondering though how this concentrated substance could be ferromagnetic...

There's got to be some nano-particle or such that is ferromagnetic, no? And yeah... liver is good for a deposit place. But I thought I read somewhere (thought now I can't find it) that nanoparticulate matter could end up anywhere?

Allright. A more futuristic scenario :)
How about a 'nanite' which was actually intended by the perpetrator of the murder to deliver the aforementioned poison to a very specific place. Let's say this place are the synapses in the motor and/or sensory cortex of the brain. If undisturbed, they would do their damage in that place by slowly 'sabotaging' the victims motor- and sensory capabilities.

Now the magnetic field of the MRI-scanner could possibly effect the nanites in a direct manner: the little machines rely on a switch of some sort to release the poison which happens to be ferromagnetic (have to think about that one further, but not unthinkable)
Now, if all the poison were to be released at once caused by the MRI, all synapses would then be triggered at once which could mean that each and every motoric as well as sensoric 'function' of your victim would occur simultaneously... This could shurely kill a person in a spectacular fashion. The added bonus for the writer would be to describe all of the sensory impulses from inside the victims head.

You two are psycho... lol

I try...

Hunter Parasite wrote:Say the guy has a tatoo, and the magnetism of the MRI makes his arms blow up. That theorie was proven wrong by the mythbusters.

Those those guys! Now I hate them...

I know that enough dietary iron (assuming it's enough ferromagnetic) to cause what I need would kill a person outright beforehand - as I believe there is only a pinhead of iron in the entire human body.

But I have to imagine there has got to be some kind of relatively non-toxic molecule (nanoparticle) out there that would build up in a human's tissue (like say arsenic poisoners can do) and cause someone to pop in an MRI. Oh well... perhaps I need to track down a material scientist?

There is no greater heresy than to hate the mythbusters crew!

If it was a simple james bond scenario one would use a fullerene or lipid-like macro-molecule which would enclose some high toxic substance, and then let the molecule lose it's structural integrity on an external magnetic field. So you'd have to check molecule physics for how /that/ could work.

maxim

maxim wrote:If it was a simple james bond scenario one would use a fullerene or lipid-like macro-molecule which would enclose some high toxic substance, and then let the molecule lose it's structural integrity on an external magnetic field. So you'd have to check molecule physics for how /that/ could work.

maxim

I like it! But I think what you described is the opposite of what I need. It seems like what you are saying is we can have some toxic molecule that remains safely embedded inside a lipid-like macro-molecule, but then ruptures during an MRI and poisons the person to death?

What I actually need is a molecule that ISN'T being safely stored somewhere in the human body prior to the MRI (and is, in fact, slowly killing the victim even pre-MRI). Then, once the guy goes in the MRI - the magnetic effects don't actually unleash some more toxic aspect of the molecule... but the magnetic effects actually try to PULL this ferro-magnetic substance from the body - causing major tissue damage. IE. his heart or liver explodes (or whever the molecule has built up).

Ok, so let's adjust it a bit:

Of course not all macro molecules remain stable. There are lot's of external magnetic fields like in power supplies, electric drives, electric machines, scan portals of security areas, mobile phones, ...
They all cause small local portions of the molecules to disrupt and thus slowly poison our victim (which may be the initial intentation). And, if you want some blood splatter effect, I'd suggest that the poison is something similar to ordinary rat poison which AFAIK leads to massive internal bleedings caused by destruction of the arterial walls. The substance may be optimized for human use. The strange symptomes on beeing slowly poisoned by that, may puzzle physicians and lead to the MRI scan.

I'm sure a MRI could never gain enough physical power to destruct body membranes, even if your particles would be razor sharp.

maxim

PS: If you're working on a script, please try to get Milla Jovovich for a leading part!

maxim wrote:I'm sure a MRI could never gain enough physical power to destruct body membranes, even if your particles would be razor sharp.

That's probably the rub for me, then. Though have you seen this?

http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html#

Chairs yanked across the room into MRI chambers. Though maybe the issue isn't the strength of the field... but that I am underestimating body membrane strength? Still, even if something couldn't break the ENTIRE body membrane... perhaps a heart could fatally rupture?

maxim wrote:PS: If you're working on a script, please try to get Milla Jovovich for a leading part!

It's for an episode of NCIS. As for Milla Jovovich... if only....

That's probably the rub for me, then. Though have you seen this?

http://www.simplyphysics.com/flying_objects.html#

Very nice - especially the story of the sprinkler in the room that had to be welded. But you should take a look on the lower end of this page:

http://www.simplyphysics.com/page2_3.html

This is the only place that we will use v. (Go ahead and forget it.) The energy levels used in X-ray and CT are on the order of a trillion times larger than those used in MRI! No ionizing radiation is used with MRI (which is why I went into MRI as a profession!)

X rays are a trillion times more energetic (and potentially damaging) than radio waves.