Just a picture test, don't read !

[ElChristou]

...Well, of course one can start a discussion about hypothetical futuristic technology, but only something I would find elemental: No whatever advanced technology whould ever be advanced enough that it doesn't needs doors anymore (Not before it would be advanced enough that it even doesn't need spacecrafts anymore ) Same for signs and marks: What kind of civilisation wouldn't need to display (and exchange) information anymore?...

Hello,

Well to enter your hypothetical futuristic technology discussion , I'm agree with you for doors, but only for the kind of technology of those Cham's cylinders; it's a well known style (used in all good SF movies) and currently this kind of technology with this structural style is not enough evolved to use some kind of "morphing" technologie to open doors.
The other style used by Cham (first images), with his curved style fit much more to use this hypothetical technology...
Visible signs and marks are really not an obligation... Here we are too much centered on our own capacity of communication... one can imagine thousands of others possibility... Now from an artistic point of view, marks are always a good solution to animate a bit a superficie...

...Another thing that strikes me whenever I'm looking at any model that anybody in this forum created:
Obviously there are strict rules for building a spacecraft - "Whatever material you use for spacecraft construction" they say to the engineers, "make sure it is grey! 50% standard grey would be perfect! Okay, you may use 53% grey or 47% grey if you like. You even may use 60% grey if you think it's neccessary, but you need to have a written permission from the administration for that - and don't forget to send us a copy for our files!"

Here I really agree with you, too much spacecraft are grey... once more people are full of SF movies, and we really need to create new technologies with new materials with new colors...

I'm working on this...

Bye

[maxim]

Well to enter your hypothetical futuristic technology discussion Wink, I'm agree with you for doors, but only for the kind of technology of those Cham's cylinders; it's a well known style (used in all good SF movies) and currently this kind of technology with this structural style is not enough evolved to use some kind of "morphing" technologie to open doors.
The other style used by Cham (first images), with his curved style fit much more to use this hypothetical technology...

Well okay, that's a probability. But this would make it even mure cruical to use any markings. I can't believe in a civilisation where people constantly run into wall because they just can't remember where the exit was.

Visible signs and marks are really not an obligation... Here we are too much centered on our own capacity of communication... one can imagine thousands of others possibility...

If you are a visual driven species, they are a obligation. At least they are the most basic failsave concept - whatever you normally use. Marks and signs will ever be used - for the same reason that the wheel will ever be used, or the fire. Not because you can't find a way around them in a specific situation but because it would make no sense to do so.

maxim

[Cham]

The gray color is dictated by metals. Most metals are gray, or shinny gray (except copper and gold, and few others). Maybe alien are using some kind of ceramics or plastics, but most colors must be added or applied on the material, and this is a manifestation of some aesthetical purposes.

Anyway, there's another spaceship in my addon which isn't gray :

[ElChristou]

Well okay, that's a probability. But this would make it even mure cruical to use any markings. I can't believe in a civilisation where people constantly run into wall because they just can't remember where the exit was. ...

... for the same reason that the wheel will ever be used, or the fire. Not because you can't find a way around them in a specific situation but because it would make no sense to do so...

Hello, maxim

Ok first sorry, my english is not very good, so I will do it simple...
Let's take a civilization were people won't run into wall because walls are part of and inteligent entity (the ship, a house, etc...) who will morph doors when one have the intention to go through it... cool no??
You will find an analogy in present days with automatic doors in malls...

Now in general, is there a particular sign to say "hey this is the door"? Nope (in reality only emergency exit have a signs). We only know it's a door because of our background of human being... just question of concept. If you looks on earth for a door first looking for a sign I think you will have some troubles.

But in fact with the signs, I'm not saying they won't exist, but not in the way we can think. If the civilization is a humano??d one, the probability of signs is quite high, in other case all can be very different, in a form (a concept) we don't know, so we won't see them (or recognize them as signs).

Bye

[maxim]

The gray color is dictated by metals. Most metals are gray, or shinny gray (except copper and gold, and few others).

In fact the only metal that really is grey, is aluminium. Others have a rich variety of colors and shades that partly depends on the manufacturing process, the surface processing and others. Shades range from black (burnishing) to white (oxidation) and a lot of colors.

Now in general, is there a particular sign to say "hey this is the door"? Nope (in reality only emergency exit have a signs). We only know it's a door because of our background of human being... just question of concept. If you looks on earth for a door first looking for a sign I think you will have some troubles.

There are clear structural evidences for doors in every case. I didn't meant signs in forms of labels, but a obvious visual indication that there is a useable door.

Let's take a civilization were people won't run into wall because walls are part of and inteligent entity (the ship, a house, etc...) who will morph doors when one have the intention to go through it... cool no??

You may not be able to pass walls anywhere, simply because there is no walkable space behind - how do you indicate that? How do you access the entity during construction, before it becomes intelligent? How do you access it after a dead loss of the whole system?

You will find an analogy in present days with automatic doors in malls...

Legions of videoclips, presenting people running into closed mall doors or into windows they thought was a door, proof the weakness of this concept.

maxim

[Cham]

I don't get the point, about the doors. The models are a representation of huge ships (several km wide), so the model resolution isn't enough to show the access doors. Anyway, there are lots of details on my models which can be interpreted as a "door" or an access trap.

The only "small" ship is the saucer like model (about 50 meters radius).There isn't much details on it and no clear indication of a door. So what ? Maybe the alien are teleporting themselves into the ship, so there is really no mechanical "door" ? Maybe the door is opening in a "magic like" way, like what ElChristou explained ? And I don't get the point about the door sign, is this really that important ? The alien may have some computer chip implant in their head so they may "see" the door as a computer representation superposed on the image formed by their eyes. To them, this is so basic they really don't need any door sign painted on the ship.

[maxim]

The doors are just an example - a concept. Think of it as hangar access, docking bays, service access to the main enginge or the warp drive, ... . And the sign-idea should just demonstrate that an artificial environment constists out of a lot of details in the order of size the species itself is. So things appear more diverse from the distance.

Of course you can find a more or less exotic explanation for everything if you like. But fact is, that when I look closer at some professional models - be it for computer design, games, movie effects or what else - I see that these models are often much simpler and less detailed than the ones I can see here - except for the textures. So you and the other model designers here put a huge amount of work into detailed modelling, and then - grey color!

Those models here could beat some of the professional ones by far - if only clever designed textures would be applied.

maxim

[Cham]

I agree about the gray color. However, I tried many other colors but it's always giving some weird results, "unrealistic" toy aspect, etc. I'm always turning back to grays shades. I made an almost golden space station too (not shown here). It's fine, but this color can't be applied to any design or else it gives some weird feels.

The bay doors, docking bays, yes, maybe I should make some more clearly in evidence on the two space stations shown here.

The textures are hard to design, because if the model has a lot of 3D details, the textures may add some confusion to the model. By playing with 3D modeling, I learned that you can't have a detailed model and a detailed texture applied to it at the same time. Or else your model will look confused. So on any highly detailed 3D model, you must use a simple texture which isn't trying to add more details. This is a problem of "balance".

[ElChristou]

...I learned that you can't have a detailed model and a detailed texture applied to it at the same time. Or else your model will look confused. So on any highly detailed 3D model, you must use a simple texture which isn't trying to add more details...

Well in fact you can have it, but then each meshes must have his own texture with his own UV mapping... and textures with the same resolution... Very long task indeed...

[maxim]

I agree about the gray color. However, I tried many other colors but it's always giving some weird results, "unrealistic" toy aspect, etc. I'm always turning back to grays shades. I made an almost golden space station too (not shown here). It's fine, but this color can't be applied to any design or else it gives some weird feels.

Probably your colors are too intense. Grey is a good starting point, because it's a neutral color. But then try to do only slight tonal changes. Push the grey some values to the red or push it a bit to blue. Then compare again. Those 'colorfull greys' play a not too unimportant role in design. In fact the heavy contrast situation in space let colors fade. Examine some professional models in movies etc. - you will see few 'colors' but a lot of 'tones' which helps making this 'realistic' impression - the warm white from a window, the cold white from a bay entrance, some dark colors a bit more brownish, some a bit more yellowish ...

ElChristou should be able to give some more professional advice IMHO.

maxim

[Cham]

I already used pale colors, of course. Vivid colors aren,t good, this is obvious.

Most of my grays actually have some blue tonalities in them, with small variations.

[ElChristou]

...ElChristou should be able to give some more professional advice IMHO...

Well I won't because few people are really able to understand correctly the terminologie of colors... and my english don't allow me to make a long post on this... The good way is to use examples to illustrate some tips but for now I have too much work either for the Community and for my "real" work... perhaps later.

I think the good think working in an open project is that you (Maxim) can make your own textures for a Cham's model and present it on the forum... More, for example Cham is developping some good habilities with his software, so the good point would be that someone else treat the texture problem... Team work... And Cham could do more good models meanwhile...

Bye

[Cham]

Here's the latest space station for this addon :

[Tanketai]

Hmmm... I was thinkin' about the background story you've set, and I found myself wondering;

At such close distance, wouldn't the Zeta2 guys be able to 'see' the Zeta1 planet, through some sort of optical device, and detect the other civilization? If so, they should be able to detect the Zeta1 radio emissions and stuff, and realize that those guys were more advanced than themselves. Am I making any sense?

[Cham]

Actually, I'm not sure yet which one is more advanced. The story is very confused yet, an I'll need to work harder on it. All I know for the moment, is that the Zet1 civilisation (the "Cyls") is suffering from a lack of metallic ressources. So they launched a vast exploration program to the Zet2 system. They go there to steal all natural ressources and to colonise the Zet2 system, all under the nose of the Zet2 civilisation. The Zet2 civ (I don't even know their name yet !) is pretty advanced too, and peacefull at first. They accept the presence of the Cyls, until they realise the Cyls are there to steal their ressources.

Zet2 organise themselves, and start a blockus to stop the Cyls, in the space between both stars. That makes the Cyls furious, which start the massive colonial campain. Zet2 is then submerged with all those Cyls colonial starships (literally hundred of thousands of cylinders, despite the lacks of metallic ressources). This is the begining of the colonial war, which will spread all over the Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2 systems. Both civilisations will be on the verge of collapsing.

After the war, only ruins remains all over the place, for the future human explorers to come later. Humans will wonder what happened there, few thousand years ago.

That's how goes my little Zeta Ret story.

[maxim]

I think the good think working in an open project is that you (Maxim) can make your own textures for a Cham's model and present it on the forum... More, for example Cham is developping some good habilities with his software, so the good point would be that someone else treat the texture problem... Team work... And Cham could do more good models meanwhile... Very Happy

It would be really interesting to see if I could do anything 'goodlooking'. Problem is, that this is another task on my 50 hours/day list. I'd first have to get into this Celestia-multi-surface-uv-mapping-from-one-single-texture stuff, because that's one of the limitations AFAIK.
Perhaps I'll do a soft start by trying to improve some of the real existing space probes - enhancing the appearance of the gold foil for example - let's see if I can get some photos.

maxim

[selden]

A quick clarification: it's not gold foil. It just looks like it.

It's actually a translucent amber-colored coating on aluminized Kapton. It's a thermal protection blanket. Without the amber coating, they're often available as "space blankets" in outdoor stores and in survival kits.

[Cham]

Maxim,

yes, I strongly recommend everybody to put more efforts on real stuff, instead of fictionnal stuff. I'm not giving the right example here, so don't lose your time with my fictional addon, which is just arbitrary fantasy anyway. This is exactly why I posted in the purgatory instead of the addons section.

[ElChristou]

...I'd first have to get into this Celestia-multi-surface-uv-mapping-from-one-single-texture stuff, because that's one of the limitations...

...I'll do a soft start by trying to improve some of the real existing space probes - enhancing the appearance of the gold foil for example - let's see if I can get some photos...

What is this topic?? seems to be on 3d stuff, but what is the problem??

If you can do good textures for all actuals models of the default package it would be cool, cause I plan to do a new generation of all those models with better nivel of details... this is a long, long trip, I know, but...

[maxim]

It's actually a translucent amber-colored coating on aluminized Kapton. It's a thermal protection blanket. Without the amber coating, they're often available as "space blankets" in outdoor stores and in survival kits.

Ah, I didn't knew it's the same one.
Versions with one side silver and one side amber, know as 'life-saving foil' here, are mandatory parts of the prescribed first aid kit for every car in germany.

maxim