What star has the highest absolute magnitude?

General physics and astronomy discussions not directly related to Celestia
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Michael Kilderry
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What star has the highest absolute magnitude?

Post #1by Michael Kilderry » 03.11.2004, 07:33

Hi,

I am interested in knowing what star has the highest absolute magnitude, but I haven't been able to find any information on the rest of the internet. By highest absolute magnitude I mean the most luminous (in the negative magnitudes), not some dull magnitude 30 star.

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Post #2by Evil Dr Ganymede » 03.11.2004, 07:40

Did you actually type "highest absolute magnitude" into google? That helps... ;)

The encarta site (second on the list when I searched google) claims that the star with the highest known absolute magnitude is "the Pistol Star".

http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsde ... s/1997/33/
http://www.solstation.com/x-objects/pistol.htm
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971008.html

No absolute magnitude is given, but these claim that it is over 10 million times more luminous than Sol and 100 times as massive!

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Post #3by Michael Kilderry » 03.11.2004, 07:56

I didn't type in "highest absolute magnitude" into google, I typed in "which star has the highest absolute magnitude?" into Google with little success.

Now what I'm interested in is where the pistol star's habitable zone would be (although it probably wouldn't be that habitable) I bet it would be really far out, I'm guessing 100AU? :wink:

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Post #4by Evil Dr Ganymede » 03.11.2004, 08:03

Michael Kilderry wrote:I didn't type in "highest absolute magnitude" into google, I typed in "which star has the highest absolute magnitude?" into Google with little success.

You gotta learn to use search engines to get the most out of them. For starters, don't ask them questions - google uses keywords, and it tosses out "Which" and "the" because they're common, and returns results that include any combination of the words "star", "has", "highest" "absolute", and "magnitude".

Just use the keywords (ie "highest absolute magnitude") and you're much more likely to nail it. Put that in quotes (so you search for the phrase) and you nail your answer in the first hit.


Now what I'm interested in is where the pistol star's habitable zone would be (although it probably wouldn't be that habitable) I bet it would be really far out, I'm guessing 100AU?


It wouldn't even have planets, unless it managed to capture a wandering world (unlikely, given it's probably been around for less than a million years)

100 AU is a tad too small though. The blackbody temperature at that distance from a star with a luminosity of 10 million Sols would be about 1565 K. If you transplanted Earth there, you'd actually have to move it all the way out to 3150 AU to get the same blackbody temperature as it does at 1 AU from the Sun!

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Post #5by Michael Kilderry » 03.11.2004, 08:18

I have been using Google for a while now, so I know how to use it, but I did make a bit of a beginner's mistake, I have to admit.

And the distance of the habitable zone WOW! 8O 8O 8O

3150 AU distance is utterly ridiculous, if an earthlike planet was there, would it be able to sustain life? Or would it just have liquid water and barren continents.

Who says it wouldn't be able to sustain planets? It could just have them at incredible distances like this, but I guess I'm no person to say if there is or there isn't planets around these stars.

Michael Kilderry :)

P.S. On a completely unrelated topic, on the Add Ons board, I have made up a new topic called "The Latest On The Lera System", it includes some interesting information about the planets I have made up that you (or anyone else) may want to look at, even though you are not particularly interested in unrealistic worlds :wink: .
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Post #6by Evil Dr Ganymede » 03.11.2004, 09:00

Michael Kilderry wrote:3150 AU distance is utterly ridiculous, if an earthlike planet was there, would it be able to sustain life? Or would it just have liquid water and barren continents.

All I know is that if you put the earth there, it'd have the same temperature. It'd probably also be fried by radiation and have its atmosphere stripped by the solar wind.


Who says it wouldn't be able to sustain planets? It could just have them at incredible distances like this, but I guess I'm no person to say if there is or there isn't planets around these stars.

Trust me, it wouldn't. The star is less than a million years old, planets wouldn't even have time to form, and the solar wind blows away the protoplanetary material (if there was even any left after the star formed) before it can form planets.


P.S. On a completely unrelated topic, on the Add Ons board, I have made up a new topic called "The Latest On The Lera System", it includes some interesting information about the planets I have made up that you (or anyone else) may want to look at, even though you are not particularly interested in unrealistic worlds :wink: .


I noticed. And you're right, I'm not interested in it. Maybe someone else will comment on it.

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Post #7by Ynjevi » 03.11.2004, 10:00

Evil Dr Ganymede wrote:
Who says it wouldn't be able to sustain planets? It could just have them at incredible distances like this, but I guess I'm no person to say if there is or there isn't planets around these stars.

Trust me, it wouldn't. The star is less than a million years old, planets wouldn't even have time to form, and the solar wind blows away the protoplanetary material (if there was even any left after the star formed) before it can form planets.


That's right -- the amount of stellar wind is simply enormous. For example Eta Carinae (mass >120 times Sun) would blow itself out of existence in a few million years, but it will explode before that. There was a very interesting article about it in a recent Sky & Telescope issue.

Here's a list of the brightest stars in the Milky Way. It does not include LBV 1806-20, which may be the Milky Way's brightest star. It may be as much as 40 million times brighter than the Sun.

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Post #8by Hoover » 03.11.2004, 14:28

At 3150 AU would an "earth" be gravitationally bound to it or would it just drift around?

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Post #9by Michael Kilderry » 04.11.2004, 05:24

Evil Dr Ganymede wrote:
Who says it wouldn't be able to sustain planets? It could just have them at incredible distances like this, but I guess I'm no person to say if there is or there isn't planets around these stars.

Trust me, it wouldn't. The star is less than a million years old, planets wouldn't even have time to form, and the solar wind blows away the protoplanetary material (if there was even any left after the star formed) before it can form planets.


P.S. On a completely unrelated topic, on the Add Ons board, I have made up a new topic called "The Latest On The Lera System", it includes some interesting information about the planets I have made up that you (or anyone else) may want to look at, even though you are not particularly interested in unrealistic worlds :wink: .

I noticed. And you're right, I'm not interested in it. Maybe someone else will comment on it.


About the planets of the Pistol Star:
Here's an interesting question then. Is it possible for planets to form out of solar wind material? Also if the protoplanetary gets blown away by the solar wind, does that mean it may settle somewhere far far away from the star, like 3150 AU :wink: .

About the currently unpopular Lera Solar System:
I personally don't understand why you wouldn't be one bit interested in it, after all, I have tried to make up my own physics to explain everything :wink: . Although if you don't like it, I respect your opinion. Currently nobody else seems interested in it either. Looks like I am all alone in my Lera Solar System, but that's ok, I like my privacy :D .

And I'm going to continue with my Lera Solar System; making more planets, adding more information into the forum and if nobody pays any attention to what I've written in the forum, I'll just have to make up guests who are interested in it. I'm sure Evil Dr. Europa will like the Lera Solar System very much :lol: .

Michael Kilderry :)
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Post #10by Evil Dr Ganymede » 04.11.2004, 07:31

About the planets of the Pistol Star:
Here's an interesting question then. Is it possible for planets to form out of solar wind material? Also if the protoplanetary gets blown away by the solar wind, does that mean it may settle somewhere far far away from the star, like 3150 AU :wink: .

Given that the solar wind material is likely to be most hydrogen and helium, being rapidly dispersed in the interstellar medium - I doubt it. There is a nebula around the star, but it probably wouldn't be dense enough for planets to form.

But then you could probably come up with something that works in your universe that doesn't obey physical laws...


I personally don't understand why you wouldn't be one bit interested in it, after all, I have tried to make up my own physics to explain everything :wink: .

And that's exactly why I'm not interested in it. As far as I'm concerned, anyone can say "I have a planet made of purest green!" or "I have a planet that was flung out from a gas giant and bounced off several other planets before it settled where it was, and is made of a patchwork of wildly different material". That's great, but it's pure fantasy. There's no consistency to it, and no common reference frame that we can use to assess it. That sort of thing is all very well if you like that, but I don't. And given that Celestia is mostly about simulating the real universe - and things that could exist in the real universe - it shouldn't be surprising that other people here who are interested in doing that and working in a real physical framework aren't really interested in a pure fantasy system that ignores real physics either.

I mean, what do you want people to say? We don't have any reference frame to assess your work - there's no point in offering constructive criticism on realism and saying things like "that's not realistic, you should have X over here, and Y over there", because you're making it all up as you go along. We can't praise it because we don't know what the heck you're trying to do - it looks like you're throwing seemingly random things together with silly names and colours (The "I Like Eggs" comet?!) that you think look cool. All we can say are things like "erm, interesting use of colour in the rings". By and large, I think we just don't "get it". You're trying to impress the wrong crowd - it's like showing wildly abstract art to a bunch of landscape artists.

Although if you don't like it, I respect your opinion. Currently nobody else seems interested in it either. Looks like I am all alone in my Lera Solar System, but that's ok, I like my privacy :D .

And I'm going to continue with my Lera Solar System; making more planets, adding more information into the forum and if nobody pays any attention to what I've written in the forum, I'll just have to make up guests who are interested in it. I'm sure Evil Dr. Europa will like the Lera Solar System very much :lol:.


Or, alternatively, you could actually try to make a realistic system, and then you'd be more likely to (a) attract real people who WOULD be interested in that, and (b) get some positive feedback. If you want validation for your work, then that's probably a much better way to do it than spending your time on something that people just don't get. If you only want to do it for yourself, then whether we like it or not shouldn't matter - but if we don't like it then you shouldn't really be too surprised or upset by that. And really, making up "imaginary people" to heap praise on your work is gettting a bit desperate, isn't it?

Though you're also not helping your cause much by effectively waving your system in people's faces and saying "hey! Why don't you like this?" until you get a reaction.

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Post #11by Michael Kilderry » 05.11.2004, 06:23

Answers to the last post:

As far as I'm concerned, anyone can say "I have a planet made of purest green!"

That's why Veralkynis you're talking about! It is the greenest world in the entire Lera Galaxy! Except for that stupid planet made out of green eggs and ham, sigh.

or "I have a planet that was flung out from a gas giant and bounced off several other planets before it settled where it was, and is made of a patchwork of wildly different material".

That's what could have happened to Uranus' moon Miranda, but I guess not. :(

That's great,

Thanks! :D :D :D

but it's pure fantasy.

Doh! :x :x :x

There's no consistency to it, and no common reference frame that we can use to assess it.

There is some consistency to it, it is consistent with the physics of the Lera Universe.

And given that Celestia is mostly about simulating the real universe - and things that could exist in the real universe - it shouldn't be surprising that other people here who are interested in doing that and working in a real physical framework aren't really interested in a pure fantasy system that ignores real physics either.

I thought at least someone would be interested in the Lera Solar System out of the hundreds of people who use the forum, after all, aren't we all here to talk about something that we share an interest in? :wink:

I mean, what do you want people to say? We don't have any reference frame to assess your work - there's no point in offering constructive criticism on realism and saying things like "that's not realistic, you should have X over here, and Y over there", because you're making it all up as you go along. We can't praise it because we don't know what the heck you're trying to do - it looks like you're throwing seemingly random things together with silly names and colours (The "I Like Eggs" comet?!) that you think look cool.

What I want people to say when I write down constructive critcism is welcome things like "well, that planet texture isn't very detailed" "and, you could have done a bump map for that one, it would look much better" and also "I would have liked this planet to look more colourful". What I am trying to do is create a fictional solar system! Those names I have created for my planets, moons etc. aren't just silly, for your information, I actually do like eggs! :P

Or, alternatively, you could actually try to make a realistic system, and then you'd be more likely to (a) attract real people who WOULD be interested in that, and (b) get some positive feedback.

But then I probably wouldn't like it as much personally, it's more fun creating the outrageous then the more realistic and down to earth worlds.(Or should that be down to universe!)

At the end of the day, all that matters is that you're happy with it, and I am! I just expected some people to think the same way.

If you only want to do it for yourself, then whether we like it or not shouldn't matter - but if we don't like it then you shouldn't really be too surprised or upset by that.

Even when it only really matters if you like it yourself, the fact that if other people like it or not matters to a degree also. I'm not upset by it, but I am a bit suprised if no one seems to like it, but can you really blame me? :wink:

And really, making up "imaginary people" to heap praise on your work is gettting a bit desperate, isn't it?

I was only joking! Evil Dr. Europa was only made up for a funny comeback when you said Europa was a liitle upstart to Ganymede!

Though you're also not helping your cause much by effectively waving your system in people's faces and saying "hey! Why don't you like this?" until you get a reaction.


That's actually what I was trying not to do, I was just trying to encourage people a bit, that's all.

IN CONCLUSION:

Even though nobody seems to be interested in my fictional systems, I still think I am in the right place in the Celestia Forum, as the solar system is a Celestia addon, and I am interested in the program even without it. :D

Michael Kilderry :)
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Post #12by Evil Dr Ganymede » 05.11.2004, 08:02

As I said elsewhere, I'm not saying "stop working on Lera" - that's the last thing I want you to do.

The problem I think is with your approach. Like I said, it's kinda like showing abstract art to a bunch of artists who paint real landscape views - there's not really much they can say about it other than "um, I like what you did with the colours?" ;).

Our ability to take your work seriously is somewhat hampered by the names you give the worlds - frankly, most of the ones on your "upcoming worlds" list sound like Pokemon ;). And some are just plain silly ("I like Eggs", again). Right off the bat, that's more likely to make people roll their eyes and ignore your work instead of attract them to look at it.

So you say you want to people to say what they think of the quality of your textures. Well, we can't really do that very well given that your universe has made-up physical laws. We can't say "your coastlines need to be more crinkly in the polar regions", because you could just turn around and say "ah, they're supposed to be all rounded like that because that's how it works in my universe!". We can't say "but a rocky surface on a planet can't be lurid green like that" because you'll say "ah, but this one is in my universe!". And there's absolutely no point in vetting your descriptions for realism because (a) because this board isn't really for discussing fantasy physics and (b) you'll only say "well, it works like that in my universe". We've already done that with your barycentre moon, and you still went ahead and put it in anyway. You could for example have a large rocky planet in your system that rotates once every five minutes, which would break up because of rotational stresses in our universe - but that'd be fine in your fantasy universe because you say so. If we say "hey, that doesn't work", you would just say "well, it does here". Hence there's no point in commenting on those aspects. See the problem?

What's left to comment on other than that? Not much really. Most of us want to make realistic worlds, because Celestia is designed for that purpose. All there is after that are subjective opinions on whether your worlds are like shining jewels in the fictional sky, or whether they make people want to claw their own eyes out (and I must admit that some of the colour schemes you use tend to make me want to do the latter. Lurid green polka dots on a planetary surface texture are an affront to humanity as far as I'm concerned 8O ;)).

Most people who make fictional systems here do so with the physical laws of our universe in mind. Some - like Don's - are just awesomely detailed and are so realistic that they make people go "Wow, I'm so THERE!!". You can't get that effect with a system that has no rhyme or reason to it (other than what you make up), and that doesn't conform to what anyone expects to see out there. So right there, without that common reference frame, you've lost people.

What you could do is experiment and get some odd results. What if you had a world with multiple ring systems at different angles that intersected eachother (I dunno if you can even do that in Celestia)? The ring shadows would look pretty wacky on that. I used to draw worlds like that when I was a kid (and IIRC the jovian that the planet in the movie "Pitch Black" was orbiting had a ring system like that). But even then, the best response you'd get is "that looks cool, in a weird way". Don't expect Chris to add things to Celestia because of that, because that's not the direction he wants to take it (which is why you won't see green or purple stars by default, either).

My advice would be to carry on. You're obviously keen on working on it. That's fine. But don't keep saying "hey! I've finished a new addition to my system!". Just keep working on it til the whole thing is finished, and then stick the complete system on the Motherlode for people to grab if they want to. Post updates to your Lera thread if you want, but don't expect that people will read or comment on it. I'm sure some will, but it's hard to judge any system when it's nowhere near being finished.

If you want help with making a specific texture or a problem while you're doing that, then by all means post on the relevant board. But skip all the story and background reasons, because they're just not relevant - particularly when they're not even based on real physics. We're not here to listen to people expounding on their scifi or fantasy backgrounds (you could stick it on Purgatory, but a lot of people avoid that board anyway because they don't come here to chat). Just get straight to the point and say what the problem you're having is and what you want help with (like "I'm making a world with a glassy surface. How do I get that kind of effect in Celestia?" or something. We really don't need to know that it's an artificial skating rink world or that it's the detatched glass eye of a gigantic space octupus or whatever ;)).

Just keep going with it, keep busy, post the final results when they're done (not every step of the way), and just keep the fantasy backgrounds to the final zip files. You won't be guaranteed to get much in the way of feedback afterwards (but then nobody is, really), but at least you'll have finished it and you'll have undoubtedly learned something along the way about making textures and about how the real universe would work under those circumstances. And people may at least appreciate the effort that you've put into making your system, which sounds like it's going to be pretty large. And this is a good thing, right?

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Post #13by Michael Kilderry » 05.11.2004, 09:58

As I said elsewhere, I'm not saying "stop working on Lera" - that's the last thing I want you to do.

As I said elsewhere, I didn't say that you were telling me to do that, I wouldn't listen to you if you told me that anyway.

The problem I think is with your approach. Like I said, it's kinda like showing abstract art to a bunch of artists who paint real landscape views - there's not really much they can say about it other than "um, I like what you did with the colours?" .

I think that I had a nice approach to the colours.

Our ability to take your work seriously is somewhat hampered by the names you give the worlds - frankly, most of the ones on your "upcoming worlds" list sound like Pokemon . And some are just plain silly ("I like Eggs", again). Right off the bat, that's more likely to make people roll their eyes and ignore your work instead of attract them to look at it.

I have given the worlds strange names because they are alien worlds, and I like giving them silly names.

So you say you want to people to say what they think of the quality of your textures. Well, we can't really do that very well given that your universe has made-up physical laws. We can't say "your coastlines need to be more crinkly in the polar regions", because you could just turn around and say "ah, they're supposed to be all rounded like that because that's how it works in my universe!". We can't say "but a rocky surface on a planet can't be lurid green like that" because you'll say "ah, but this one is in my universe!". And there's absolutely no point in vetting your descriptions for realism because (a) because this board isn't really for discussing fantasy physics and (b) you'll only say "well, it works like that in my universe". We've already done that with your barycentre moon, and you still went ahead and put it in anyway. You could for example have a large rocky planet in your system that rotates once every five minutes, which would break up because of rotational stresses in our universe - but that'd be fine in your fantasy universe because you say so. If we say "hey, that doesn't work", you would just say "well, it does here". Hence there's no point in commenting on those aspects. See the problem?

The comments I want to get about my solar system are things like "I like the way the planet looks" and "That looks interesting!" and "Is that feature on your planet a beached whale?" Well, maybe skip the last one. I personally think it is great how I can make my own physics up so I can just create whatever with my planets, it's far more fun! :D

What's left to comment on other than that? Not much really. Most of us want to make realistic worlds, because Celestia is designed for that purpose. All there is after that are subjective opinions on whether your worlds are like shining jewels in the fictional sky, or whether they make people want to claw their own eyes out (and I must admit that some of the colour schemes you use tend to make me want to do the latter. Lurid green polka dots on a planetary surface texture are an affront to humanity as far as I'm concerned ).
Could you stop putting down the I Like Eggs Comet? Or is that the only thing you looked at, I admit that it isn't my best world, but...

What you could do is experiment and get some odd results. What if you had a world with multiple ring systems at different angles that intersected eachother (I dunno if you can even do that in Celestia)? The ring shadows would look pretty wacky on that. I used to draw worlds like that when I was a kid (and IIRC the jovian that the planet in the movie "Pitch Black" was orbiting had a ring system like that). But even then, the best response you'd get is "that looks cool, in a weird way". Don't expect Chris to add things to Celestia because of that, because that's not the direction he wants to take it (which is why you won't see green or purple stars by default, either).

Experimenting with odd results is what I've been doing, the results jsut aren't realistic, that's all.

My advice would be to carry on. You're obviously keen on working on it. That's fine. But don't keep saying "hey! I've finished a new addition to my system!". Just keep working on it til the whole thing is finished, and then stick the complete system on the Motherlode for people to grab if they want to. Post updates to your Lera thread if you want, but don't expect that people will read or comment on it. I'm sure some will, but it's hard to judge any system when it's nowhere near being finished.

You can still judge the solar system, there's fourteen worlds there.

If you want help with making a specific texture or a problem while you're doing that, then by all means post on the relevant board. But skip all the story and background reasons, because they're just not relevant - particularly when they're not even based on real physics. We're not here to listen to people expounding on their scifi or fantasy backgrounds (you could stick it on Purgatory, but a lot of people avoid that board anyway because they don't come here to chat). Just get straight to the point and say what the problem you're having is and what you want help with (like "I'm making a world with a glassy surface. How do I get that kind of effect in Celestia?" or something. We really don't need to know that it's an artificial skating rink world or that it's the detatched glass eye of a gigantic space octupus or whatever ).

If you really don't like the planetary backgrounds, then I won't continue with them, I was just thinking that if I was a different person looking at them I would find the backgrounds interesting.

Just keep going with it, keep busy, post the final results when they're done (not every step of the way), and just keep the fantasy backgrounds to the final zip files. You won't be guaranteed to get much in the way of feedback afterwards (but then nobody is, really), but at least you'll have finished it and you'll have undoubtedly learned something along the way about making textures and about how the real universe would work under those circumstances. And people may at least appreciate the effort that you've put into making your system, which sounds like it's going to be pretty large. And this is a good thing, right?


Yes, 35 worlds in one solar system is a good thing, I'm not demanding that you download it when it is finished, but I would like it if you did so you could judge it from what you've seen up to now, which is probably just the first seven worlds. (Which I call the Seven Sisters after the Pleaides)

Michael Kilderry :)
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Post #14by Hoover » 07.11.2004, 22:23

What does the Lera system have to do with "What star has the highest absolute magnitude"?

Does this conversation have to get into every topic? I wish we could split the Lera stuff out of this thread. I don't think anyone even saw my last question.

I think creating artificial planets for Celestia is OK. I mean where else are you gonna do that? And you could potentially make things only higher end graphics cards could display. The only thing I don't like about the Lera system is that you have to replace the starnames.dat file to see the planets. That is the only reason that after I looked at them I got rid of it. It would be much better if they could be placed around an artifical star in our own galaxy.

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Post #15by Michael Kilderry » 08.11.2004, 05:33

Replacing starnames.dat really isn't that hard, just rename the existing starnames.dat to something like starnames2.dat. Then just put the new one in it's place. If you want to switch back to the old starnames.dat, just swap them around.

As for absolute magnitudes going into a Lera topic, you'll have to excuse me as I (and I'm not alone) can find it very easy to stray off topic, and I believe the Lera topic actually started off with me just fitting it in with the more relevant issue, but it ended up snowballing into a completely new topic.

As for your question, I would say a 3150 AU Pistol Star Earth would be gravitationally bound due to it's star's massiveness and the fact that Evil Dr Ganymede would have mentioned it if it couldn't stay in orbit for very long.

I don't think the Lera Solar System will make it's way into irrelevant topics as much for now on, as I am starting an a new solar system.

Michael Kilderry :)
Last edited by Michael Kilderry on 21.01.2005, 05:51, edited 1 time in total.
My shatters.net posting milestones:



First post - 11th October 2004

100th post - 11th November 2004

200th post - 23rd January 2005

300th post - 21st February 2005

400th post - 23rd July 2005



First addon: The Lera Solar System



- Michael

ziggy
Posts: 64
Joined: 27.03.2003
With us: 21 years 8 months

Irish origami

Post #16by ziggy » 17.11.2004, 01:06

I have just folded a piece of A4 paper in half eight times.... :D

Topic author
Michael Kilderry
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Post #17by Michael Kilderry » 17.11.2004, 05:48

There was a whole topic about paper folding in the purgatory that proved wrong my original signature so I had to change it to you can't fold an A4 piece of paper in half eight times. Looks like I'll have to change my signature to something completely different.

Michael Kilderry :)
My shatters.net posting milestones:



First post - 11th October 2004

100th post - 11th November 2004

200th post - 23rd January 2005

300th post - 21st February 2005

400th post - 23rd July 2005



First addon: The Lera Solar System



- Michael

Guest

Post #18by Guest » 02.01.2005, 12:22

la estrella con mayor mag. abs. "de momento" es LBV 1806-20 (Mbol -14.40),le sigue Schulte 12 (Mv -10.60) por ultimo V 4647 Sgr aka "Pistol Star" (Mv -10.40).
Fuera de nuestra galaxia en NGC 3432 esta [PL2000] J105241.40+364008.5 (Mv -12)


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