5 old moons of Neptune

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selden
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5 old moons of Neptune

Post #1by selden » 20.08.2004, 21:38

Note: as mentioned below, "minormoons.ssc" has more accurate values. Oh, well.


An article in the August 19th issue of Nature describes the discovery of 5 minor moons of Neptune orbiting in large, irregular orbits.

An article about them published by New Scientist can be read at at http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996298&lpos=home2

Here's a picture of their orbits as drawn by Celestia:

Image
(this links to a larger image)

An SSC file for them is available at
http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/neptune_minor_moons.ssc
Last edited by selden on 20.08.2004, 23:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Cham M
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Post #2by Cham » 20.08.2004, 22:18

Thanks Selden.

But I have two questions :

1-Are the radius imaginary, in your ssc file ?
2-Are the new moons the same as 2002 N1, 2002 N2, 2002 N3 and 2002 N4 ? I mean, is there a difference, say, between S_2002 N1 and 2002 N1 ?

By the way, there's a Radius error in your ssc for the moon S_2003 N1.
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Post #3by Cham » 20.08.2004, 22:28

Hmm, this is annoying. I already have those moons (I believe) from a numberedmoons.ssc file (I don't know where I got it, however, JACK's site maybe ).

In this file, there are 2002N1, 2002N2, 2002N3, 2002N4, 2003N1, with very different orbital data than in your own ssc file. Only the periods appears to be similar (with small variations).

Which one is supposedly more accurate ?
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Post #4by granthutchison » 20.08.2004, 23:02

Numberedmoons.ssc is mine - you must have got it from the CVS tree. The elements etc given there are derived from the JPL Horizons ephemerides and JPL's Solar System Visualization website, and they were accurate up to about June this year. In July JPL updated the ephemeris list on their website, but by the start of August (when I last checked) the Horizons system was still providing old data by e-mail ... so numberedmoons.ssc is not perfectly current at present.

Some of the differences between my elements and Selden's are just because they are for different Epochs. However, some are because of problems with coordinate systems ... most astronomical data sources give ascending node relative to the Earth's equatorial plane, but Celestia needs it defined relative to the ecliptic; most sources give the inclination of outer satellites relative to the Laplacian plane, but Celestia needs it relative to the parent body's equator. I made these conversions from Horizons->Celestia before I built numberedmoons.ssc, but it looks as if Selden hasn't made the conversion - so right now I'd claim that my numbers are more correct than his.

Summary: numberedmoons.ssc isn't perfectly current, but it's a pretty accurate representation of the JPL ephemeris data. When I get the new ephemeris data and incorporate it (there are some pending revisions to the new outer Jovians, too), I'll make an announcement on the forum so that you can download the new ssc.

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Post #5by selden » 20.08.2004, 23:03

1-Are the radius imaginary, in your ssc file ?
As the comments in the ssc file imply, the radius values were calculated by dividing by two the diameter values estimated by the discoverers. I don't know how accurate their estimates are.
2-Are the new moons the same as 2002 N1, 2002 N2, 2002 N3 and 2002 N4 ? I mean, is there a difference, say, between S_2002 N1 and 2002 N1 ?
The official designations of these satellites are "S/2002 N1" through "S/2003 N1". Since Celestia doesn't like the use of "/" in an object name, I substituted an underscore "_". Omitting the "S/" entirely would have been another option, so I presume they're supposed to be the same bodies.

By the way, there's a Radius error in your ssc for the moon S_2003 N1.
oops. sorry. fixed.
Which one is supposedly more accurate ?


Does your minormoons.ssc say where its values came from?

I used the values specified in the official "Minor Planet Electronic Circulars" for the bodies. I listed the URLs of those circulars in the SSC file. The values in the circulars are slightly different from the values shown on the "satellites" page of one of the discoverers at the University of Hawaii, but the Web page doesn't say how its values were obtained. The values in the circulars were calculated by Brian G. Marsden from the observations listed in the circulars. Brian does those calculations for all minor planet discoveries, and is well known for the accuracy of his work. There was even a revised circular issued for S/2003 N1 with updated parameters, which is what I used.
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Post #6by selden » 20.08.2004, 23:08

Grant is right: I just transliterated the circulars' values and forgot about the difference in coordinate systems.

It'd be really nice if there were some way to persuade Celestia to do the appropriate transformations. This problem is going to recurr frequently.
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