Celestia Forums

Hi, I'm new here but have been using Celestia for a while.

I remember seeing a couple years ago (I'm pretty sure on the Celestia Motherlode) a really high resolution pic of the earth, something that was in the size of GBs and was somewhere on the order of 1 pixel is a few yards. But I can't find this on the site anymore? Does anyone know where it is?

Many thanks.
YAS

You can find Jestr's 32K VT on THIS page.

Look about half way down the page. This is only available in DDS format though. Just FYI.
Edit: Oops... There are OTHER formats there too. Just have a look around.

Thanks, Brain-Dead Bob

That's where I looked, but the biggest is around 400 MBs. I remember one that was in the size of Gigabytes. What about that one?

YAS wrote:That's where I looked, but the biggest is around 400 MBs. I remember one that was in the size of Gigabytes. What about that one?

YAS, all what you need is here:
http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=44&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Read accurately all the thread, and you'll be able to obtain an incredible 64K Earth texture, including normalmap.
Enjoy!
Bye

Andrea

I've been using Celestia for a while, and finally. decided to upgrade earth. I have seen the 64k, and 32k DDS addons by Jestr, listed,and will see how they install soon. There seems to be a more detailed 85k version in the 2.3GB base, and spectacular addons. I want to check if it's worthwhile downloading the large file, I have a 64bit, dual core, Linux, with 4GB RAM with nvidia8.6M gs, so my system should handle them. I know I can store different resolutions in different extras files, but will any combination, in the same extras folder conflict? Or show in the list of alternate textures. Jestr's MKI has level 6-10. If all three resolutions are in extras, will there be more than 1 texture at the same elevation? Can they work in conjunction. What is the best combination of the three for a detailed Earth? Can the base maps be used as extras, or are they primarily the foundation for building new addons? So far I've renamed a few locations, and text files,Making George Carlin Phobos is an example. (Makes him look like he's got a big nose, and had a facelift) but figured it was about time to get to know the addon structure a bit better. Orbits. elevations, replacement textures. I don't know if this is the right thread. I haven't been a member of the forum for long. Thanks.

--- edit ---

pokkets wrote:I've been using Celestia for a while, and finally. decided to upgrade earth. I have seen the 64k, and 32k DDS addons by Jestr, listed,and will see how they install soon. There seems to be a more detailed 85k version in the 2.3GB base, and spectacular addons. I want to check if it's worthwhile downloading the large file, I have a 64bit, dual core, Linux, with 4GB RAM with nvidia8.6M gs, so my system should handle them. I know I can store different resolutions in different extras files, but will any combination, in the same extras folder conflict? Or show in the list of alternate textures. Jestr's MKI has level 6-10. If all three resolutions are in extras, will there be more than 1 texture at the same elevation? Can they work in conjunction. What is the best combination of the three for a detailed Earth? Can the base maps be used as extras, or are they primarily the foundation for building new addons? So far I've renamed a few locations, and text files,Making George Carlin Phobos is an example. (Makes him look like he's got a big nose, and had a facelift) but figured it was about time to get to know the addon structure a bit better. Orbits. elevations, replacement textures. I don't know if this is the right thread. I haven't been a member of the forum for long. Thanks.

Don't forget the VTs at ML are old fashion and are not optimized at all. If you want some top level Earth, just one address: Celestial Matters.
You can edit your texture tree as you want; or you put your textures in extras using a ssc with the "modify" command", or you edit your solarsys.ssc (in the data folder) and the textures in your textures folder. Perso I have now a 64k color/normal/spec + 32k cloud/night in my hires folder, then the 4 first folders of the same VT set duplicated in my medres folder to have a 8k VT in medres resolution and the 2 first folders again in the lowres folder to get a 2k VT in lowres. This is a bit of HD waste (same data duplicated) but I find the result just ideal for my use...

ElChristou wrote:Perso I have now a 64k color/normal/spec + 32k cloud/night in my hires folder, then the 4 first folders of the same VT set duplicated in my medres folder to have a 8k VT in medres resolution and the 2 first folders again in the lowres folder to get a 2k VT in lowres. This is a bit of HD waste (same data duplicated) but I find the result just ideal for my use...

You may want to look into Junction Points(i.e. Windows symbolic links), which may allow that without the wasted disk space. This article is a bit easier to read, and provides some other tools.

Let me remind people here that ALL (big) normalmaps, except those one creates with our nmtools (available at CelestialMatters) are increasingly incorrect towards the poles of spherical bodies!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
E.g. ALL normalmap textures for Earth one finds at the Motherlode were generated with normalmap conversion code mostly by Chris Laurel that ignores the underlying spherical geometry of celestial bodies. The respective formulae were incorrectly carried over from nomalmaps for FLAT geometries.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Besides being the only existing correct tools for normalmaps on spherical bodies, the nmtools incorporate furthermore a host of highly effective optimizations as to HD space, texture quality, execution speed and operative stability.

Once the original scientific input data have been downloaded to the local machine, a complete 64k VT set is generated with my F-TexTools and nmtools in only 30 - 45 minutes, including normalmap VTs, cartrite's great waterways texture and the base & specular texture VTs.

These cross-platform tools are designed to work on normal sized home computers and ALWAYS produce the same excellent texture quality directly from the compressed original scientific input data. The latter require MUCH less downloading bandwidth than the complete resulting multi GB VT set.

The distribution of my tools contains besides the C++ sources ready to use executables for Windows, OSX universal and Linux. No further libraries are needed.

At Celestial matters http://forum.celestialmatters.org/ one finds my F-TexTools & nmtools for download, links to the scientific input data, two step-by-step tutorials and lots of discussion.

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewf ... d617c626ae

Cartrite has also produced a script for my tools

http://cartrite.myhosting247.com/site-p ... re-kit.zip

on his site that allows to do the whole process with just a few clicks.

Many people have meanwhile succeeded without problems to do their own highest quality 64k 'monster' VT textures this way. Undenieably, this do-it-yourself experience is meanwhile known to also create good feelings of personal success and 'achievement'

Fridger

t00fri wrote:Let me remind people here that ALL (big) normalmaps, except those one creates with our nmtools (available at CelestialMatters) are increasingly incorrect towards the poles of spherical bodies!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
E.g. ALL normalmap textures for Earth one finds at the Motherlode were generated with normalmap conversion code mostly by Chris Laurel that ignores the underlying spherical geometry of celestial bodies. The respective formulae were incorrectly carried over from nomalmaps for FLAT geometries.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Someone should really regenerate some of these Motherlode textures using nmtools.

--Chris

Will Cartrites script work for mac?

bh wrote:Will Cartrites script work for mac?

Nope, but you don't really need it.
If you have some trouble installing the tools, see this thread, then if you follow Fridger's tutorial you will see (despite the appearances) that it's quite straightforward...

chris wrote:

t00fri wrote:Let me remind people here that ALL (big) normalmaps, except those one creates with our nmtools (available at CelestialMatters) are increasingly incorrect towards the poles of spherical bodies!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
E.g. ALL normalmap textures for Earth one finds at the Motherlode were generated with normalmap conversion code mostly by Chris Laurel that ignores the underlying spherical geometry of celestial bodies. The respective formulae were incorrectly carried over from nomalmaps for FLAT geometries.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Someone should really regenerate some of these Motherlode textures using nmtools.

--Chris

As you may remember, myself, nmtools and the Motherlode are incompatible!
Most people know, anyway...

But there are some plans for CelestialMatters in the making!

Fridger

t00fri wrote:

chris wrote:

t00fri wrote:Let me remind people here that ALL (big) normalmaps, except those one creates with our nmtools (available at CelestialMatters) are increasingly incorrect towards the poles of spherical bodies!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
E.g. ALL normalmap textures for Earth one finds at the Motherlode were generated with normalmap conversion code mostly by Chris Laurel that ignores the underlying spherical geometry of celestial bodies. The respective formulae were incorrectly carried over from nomalmaps for FLAT geometries.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Someone should really regenerate some of these Motherlode textures using nmtools.

--Chris

As you may remember, myself, nmtools and the Motherlode are incompatible!
Most people know, anyway...

But surely you want as many people as possible to have high quality textures? That means you should relax this policy of yours.

Or do I have to spend time writing another normal map creation tool with no strings attached in order to fix this situation?

--Chris

--- edit ---

john Van Vliet wrote:I think that is what is going to have to be done .

Fortunately I think not!

chris wrote:...
But surely you want as many people as possible to have high quality textures? That means you should relax this policy of yours.

Or do I have to spend time writing another normal map creation tool with no strings attached in order to fix this situation?

--Chris

Yes, please, if you feel fine with this! It's all up to you. You certainly would loose an old developer right away . But please let me know of your coding plans ASAP, before I submit my globular package... (which was due before this weekend!)

There is a somewhat smoother option though:

My tools are formally released under the GPL2 license, whence I have NO formal handle to prevent what you suggested. Anybody can use my nmtools/F-Textools and upload some respective textures to the Motherlode.

BUT: I then shall immediately stop any support of my tools, as well as any further development thereof. That is a comparatively little price for correcting the normalmap situation at the Motherlode, isn't it?

I certainly have an interest for many people to enjoy the best possible Celestia textures.

That's why I set out and coded my multi-platform tools, putting a lot of work in to make them work perfectly on EVERYONE'S home computer. I also wrote a detailed step-by-step tutorial, teaching people, how simple it is to come to an excellent result...

But certainly, I didn't invest all that work to just produce 1 single "master" texture to be deposited at the Motherlode, with thousands of people just clicking blindly, without even knowing what exactly they are downloading, what type of scientific data are used etc.

Sorry, that is NOT my style. I have always disliked the concept of the ML from the beginning. And your above threat will not change that!

So, please, let me know your preferences.

Fridger

PS: I indicated already that we are currently discussing some acceptable download scenario at Celestial Matters. But given your plans this may well become superfluous.

I think this is the time and place to say once again

THANK YOU!!!

to Fridger for providing these brilliant tools for texture making and the extensive support (documentation, installation guide, .exe files, tutorials, forum ...)

In my opinion, Fridger's dedication cannot be respected too much. Just to put things right ...

Andy

Since I seem to be placed smack-dab in the middle of all of this, let me just express my opinion here...

I would me more than happy to place the larger textures on the ML, but have refused to do so at Dr. Schrempp's request.
He has every right to make this request, and I will not post anything which has been created with his tools. If this meets with
the collective disapproval here, I would also be very happy to go commit Hari-Kari and simply jump off of the Celestial planet.

I have very much appreciated the Good Doctor's tools, and his patient explanations of these tools for the Brain-Dead.
If HE does not wish his textures to be duplicated on the ML, then they will not be. At least by me.

It would seem that the Good Doctor's works are hardly appreciated by anyone except those who have taken the time
to invest some work into creating their own VT's. Why is this such a price to pay? If you want the textures that badly,
then do a bit of work. Surely this isn't too much to ask for all of the accuracy and detail that comes along with these works.

Like I said, just my opinion. Everybody has one.

t00fri wrote:

chris wrote:...
But surely you want as many people as possible to have high quality textures? That means you should relax this policy of yours.

Or do I have to spend time writing another normal map creation tool with no strings attached in order to fix this situation?

--Chris

Yes, please, if you feel fine with this! It's all up to you. You certainly would loose an old developer right away . But please let me know of your coding plans ASAP, before I submit my globular package... (which was due before this weekend!)

I don't know why my choice to develop another normal map tool would cause you to do something so drastic. In any case.

There is a somewhat smoother option though:

My tools are formally released under the GPL2 license, whence I have NO formal handle to prevent what you suggested. Anybody can use my nmtools/F-Textools and upload some respective textures to the Motherlode.

BUT: I then shall immediately stop any support of my tools, as well as any further development thereof. That is a comparatively little price for correcting the normalmap situation at the Motherlode, isn't it?

I guess . . . it makes my head spin why you would to this. So what if someone other than me wrote a no strings attached normal map tool? Would that make you quit Celestia development? Or what if I just fixed the nm16 tool in the SVN repository? Surely you wouldn't quit over a bug fix?

I certainly have an interest for many people to enjoy the best possible Celestia textures.

That's why I set out and coded my multi-platform tools, putting a lot of work in to make them work perfectly on EVERYONE'S home computer. I also wrote a detailed step-by-step tutorial, teaching people, how simple it is to come to an excellent result...

But certainly, I didn't invest all that work to just produce 1 single "master" texture to be deposited at the Motherlode, with thousands of people just clicking blindly, without even knowing what exactly they are downloading, what type of scientific data are used etc.

What about the people who just want to see great looking textures and don't have the time to learn how to use these tools? It's great that you've provided the tutorials for people that do have the time, or who want to produce a texture from new data. But I simply disagree that people happen to be short on free time shouldn't get to enjoy high quality textures. It should be as easy just clicking a link to install a new Celestia add-on; the more steps there are beyond this, the more likely people are to give up.

Sorry, that is NOT my style. I have always disliked the concept of the ML from the beginning. And your above threat will not change that!

It's not a threat; it's a practical way to allow more people to enjoy high quality normal maps.

So, please, let me know your preferences.

Sorry, I'll write whatever tools I feel are useful; I can't let ultimatums get in the way of this.

PS: I indicated already that we are currently discussing some acceptable download scenario at Celestial Matters.

I would love to see Celestial Matters develop in this direction.

--Chris