Celestia Forums

Hello, everybody!

After a good while working with Andrea on models and because of the CSM and LEM work in progress, we though it was evident to try to do something more to really enjoy those models and to give a much interesting experience than single static models.

For this we call the actual active expert in the matter who shows some very interesting stuff with his saga "Back to URSS", you know who I mean of course, our friend Linuxm@n.

So here we are, the three of us + an outsider, non member of the forum, in charge of the calculation of orbits...

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Before all, a few naming convention of the different elements of the Apollo mission:

CSM: Command and Service Module
CM: Command Module
SM: Service Module
LEM: Lunar Excursion Module
AS: Ascent Stage (of the LEM)
DS: Decent Stage (of the LEM)
SLA: Spacecraft-LEM-Adapter

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Right now, here is what we want to see; this will be used as a kind of work-map:


- Separation of CSM from 3rd stage of the Saturn V*,
- Opening of the SLA,
- 180?° pitch of CSM,
- Extraction of LEM (the 3rd stage stay in orbit or burn in atmosphere?),
- Flight to moon orbit,
- Separation CSM/LEM,
- LEM touch down,
- Take of of the AS (the DS stay on ground),
- AS docking with CSM,
- Separation AS/CSM (the AS crash on the moon)
- CSM flight back to Earth,
- Separation CM/SM (the SM stay in orbit? crash into atmosphere?)
- CM reentry,
- Opening of parachutes for splashdown.
- Floating CM waiting for recovery.


* if we achieve the above, we may add the take of of the complete Saturn V, but right now we will concentrate on the CSM/LEM mission...


As you can see there is a lot to do!

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Necessary models and commentary on progress:

- 3rd stage of the Saturn V (adapter in 4 pieces for opening) -- 30%,
- CSM -- 100%,
- LEM closed legs, antennas down, drogue in hatch -- 80%,
- LEM open legs, antennas up, no more drogue in hatch -- 80%,
- Lunar ground -- test version,
- LEM DS -- 80%,
- Instruments on ground (antennas, flag, etc...) -- 70%,
- LEM AS -- 95%,
- SM -- 90%,
- CM (capsule only) -- 90%,
- CM during reentry (burning) -- 40%
- Burned CM (no flames) -- 40%
- Burned CM with parachutes -- 70%
- CM floating on ocean -- 40%

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The work will begun with some test, all of us will stay in his area; once I have the test models ready (low poly) I'll post here the download links, Linuxm@n with his friend will work on the ssc and xyz files, all progress will be post so you are all welcome to test and comment.

Andrea will continue his documentarist work, but everybody is also welcome to share some interesting links.

Hope you will enjoy the process!

Wow! Can't wait.

Just a multi view of the actual state of the AS...

(Click to enlarge)





and the test model for the 3rd stage (need a bit more work...)

It would be like watching a short movie.. (or should it be in realtime )

Lookig great, thumbs up.

Bye, Anders

tech2000 wrote:It would be like watching a short movie.. (or should it be in realtime )

Lookig great, thumbs up.

Bye, Anders

Real time, please!!

This is wonderful news; congratulations on the birth of your team. The rest of us will be the happy beneficiaries of your collective efforts.

For those of us unable to contribute directly, it will be interesting to follow your progress here in the forums. Please continuce to post progress reports.

Hi-Ho,

cs

Linuxm@n, the 3rd stage test model is ready, how do you want it? one file, one by element (7 files)?

(Click to enlarge)

CurlSnout wrote:....For those of us unable to contribute directly, it will be interesting to follow your progress here in the forums. Please continue to post progress reports. Hi-Ho, cs

Hello cs, this is exactly the reason of this new thread, i.e. to show the lot of work that's behind the realization of such a project, and at the same time to find opinions and help to gain it.
And, as we say in Italy "let's put some more steaks on the fire", here is a strange thing I found cheching the thousands images I looked at, to find the ones needed by Chris (ElChristou):
During the final approach to the Moon, each LEM's leg had a probe, hanging down from the pad, used to confirm the last inches of distance from the ground.
Well, in his model Chris shows them as vertically oriented, i.e. with a 90 deg angle to the ground, as shown in this clip from his image:



I just found that this is not true for at least 2 of three legs (I'm missing the fourth, up to now).
Look here:

this has a 0 degrees angle with the ground,

but here the angle is about 20 degrees,

and here is about 90 degrees.

Don't know the reason why, perhaps the different soil hardness?
Someone else could give the reason, perhaps, I didn't find anything in the web.
But at this point, Chris, do you think it's worth to check for the remaining leg and make a new LEM module to show it after the touchdown?
IMHO, we could let it as you made, do you agree?
Bye

Andrea

ElChristou wrote:Linuxm@n, the 3rd stage test model is ready, how do you want it? one file, one by element (7 files)?
(Click to enlarge)

Chris, Linuxm@n, the 3rd stage opened in this way, with explosive charges:



Sorry, not yet found images, still searching for.
But I have a surprise for you: I have just found the official Apollo 11 Flightplan, in 3 pdf files for a total of more than 200 pages.
Bye soon

Andrea

The film 'Apollo 13' has a got a good CSM/LEM docking sequence.

ANDREA wrote:...
During the final approach to the Moon, each LEM's leg had a probe, hanging down from the pad, used to confirm the last inches of distance from the ground.
Well, in his model Chris shows them as vertically oriented, i.e. with a 90 deg angle to the ground, as shown in this clip from his image...

Yep, I'm aware of those probes; it's just that it's something I still need to work on... Need to do the articulation and the attach point on the legs.

There will be 3 versions of this detail, one with legs closed and probes just like the actual state, one with legs open and probes down for flight and touch down, and one for the static scenery on moon, just like those photos...

ANDREA wrote:...
But I have a surprise for you: I have just found the official Apollo 11 Flightplan, in 3 pdf files for a total of more than 200 pages....

Andrea, once you have them uploaded, just post the download links here...

Hi guys,

I love to see this workshop florishing! This sort of collaboration is the right way of making progress. I have been involved in this sort of venture many times (including my friend ElChristou, of course )...


Cheers,
Fridger

t00fri wrote:Hi guys, I love to see this workshop florishing! This sort of collaboration is the right way of making progress. I have been involved in this sort of venture many times (including my friend ElChristou, of course )... Cheers, Fridger

Thanks Fridger, appreciated.
Bye soon

Andrea

Can I wish every success to the "Apollo 11 Team" for this project!
Can't wait to see it's completion, and to see this historic event represented properly in Celestia - after my feeble attempts using Shrox's old models a couple of years ago or so.

Anyway, I might be able to shed some light on those LEM landing sensors.
It appears there were only 3 for the Apollo 11 mission.
Here's a link to a website with some info.

I guess the sensors were expendible, so it didn't matter what state they were in after landing, hence their weird angles!?

All the best,
TERRIER

PS Hello, bh !!
Cool new avater I see
Still drinking the ESB ?

ElChristou wrote:

ANDREA wrote:...
But I have a surprise for you: I have just found the official Apollo 11 Flightplan, in 3 pdf files for a total of more than 200 pages....

Andrea, once you have them uploaded, just post the download links here...

Chris, the Apollo11-Official_FlightPlan.rar file (4.4 MB) has been uploaded to your FTP address just now.
Sorry, I cannot upload it in my web space, not enough space to do it (actually I have less than a couple MB).
Hope this document will be sufficient for our purposes but, if needed, I think I can find something else.
Bye soon.

Andrea

Here's a site that provides interesting details, with respect to the LM's Lunar Surface Sensing Probes:

http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Lunar_M ... probe.html

Also some nice information and graphics here:

http://apollomaniacs.web.infoseek.co.jp/apollo/lme.htm

Only LM-3 (APOLLO 9) and LM-4 (APOLLO 10) had 4 such probes - one associated with each landing pad. The remaining LMs each had 3 probes; the landing gear at the front of the LM did not have a sensing probe to prevent interference with moon-walking astronauts as they descended the ladder.

TERRIER wrote:...Anyway, I might be able to shed some light on those LEM landing sensors.It appears there were only 3 for the Apollo 11 mission.Here's a link to a website with some info. I guess the sensors were expendible, so it didn't matter what state they were in after landing, hence their weird angles!? All the best, TERRIER ....

Hello Terrier, this information is very interesting, and explains why I found only three landing sensors, the fourth was missing.
Regarding the sensors, they were surely expendible, having no more use after landing.
Thank you.
Bye

Andrea

CurlSnout wrote:Here's a site that provides interesting details, with respect to the LM's Lunar Surface Sensing Probes:
http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Lunar_M ... probe.html
Also some nice information and graphics here:
http://apollomaniacs.web.infoseek.co.jp/apollo/lme.htm ....

Hello cs, your first link confirms what given in the second one, that had already been posted by Terrier.
A very nice and appreciated example of collaboration, thank you very much to both of you.
Bye soon

Andrea

ANDREA wrote:

CurlSnout wrote:Here's a site that provides interesting details, with respect to the LM's Lunar Surface Sensing Probes:
http://www.space1.com/Artifacts/Lunar_M ... probe.html
Also some nice information and graphics here:
http://apollomaniacs.web.infoseek.co.jp/apollo/lme.htm ....

Hello cs, your first link confirms what given in the second one, that had already been posted by Terrier.
A very nice and appreciated example of collaboration, thank you very much to both of you.
Bye soon

Andrea

Cheers ...
...Here's one more item, aNASA PDF documentcovering just about every test and concept for the LEM landing gear (including it's original 5-legged design !), plus performance data from the actual landing .
Hopefuly you've got more than enough info now for this part of the project!

regards