Interior of the planets

[Cham]

Here's an update for Europa and Ganymede. I'm still puzzled with the texture to be used on Ganymede's thick ice layer. There will be some labels on the models, with several question marks "?", so the user wont be misled by the very approximate representation.


Europa :

Rough numbers used for the model :
Ice crust thickness : 40 km
Ocean layer thickness : 100 km
Metallic core radius : 613 km


Ganymede :

Rough numbers used for the model :
Ice crust thickness : 109 km
Ocean layer thickness : 98 km
Internal ice layer thickness : 385 km
Metallic core radius : 884 km

I'm tempted to hide a fishy model inside the ocean layer.

[Aliced1989]

I'm lovin it! [/b]

[Cham]

If only we had bump map on models, in Celestia ! The core is so sexy, in my modeler ! I can't use the normal map feature of Celestia 1.5. Arrrgh !

[buggs_moran]

I think they look cool Cham... Since you find them a bit "dull" What if you

1) Roughed up the bottom of the ice. Since you wouldn't want to add to the model, could you do it with textures.
2) Did some close up info, along with the main info:

For instance

[Cham]

buggs_moran,

Thanks a lot for that pict. That's the kind of info I need to finish the Europa model. The proportions are pretty similar to the layers thickness I gave in a post above.

Thanks again

[chris]

If only we had bump map on models, in Celestia ! The core is so sexy, in my modeler ! I can't use the normal map feature of Celestia 1.5. Arrrgh !

You can use normal maps on models in Celestia 1.5.0. But, we need to figure out a way to convert the file used by your modeling software into a cmod with tangents. Does your modeling software support bump maps or normal maps?

--Chris

[Cham]

You can use normal maps on models in Celestia 1.5.0. But, we need to figure out a way to convert the file used by your modeling software into a cmod with tangents. Does your modeling software support bump maps or normal maps?

My modeler knows what a bump map is, of course. But normal maps aren't supported. The bump mapping is pretty standard in this modeler and I think it's the same format as in most modelers (AFAIK).

[Cham]

I think I finally got it right for Europa. I'm starting to add some trivial text. For the moment, it's in French (since I'll be using the model in my astronomy courses), but I'll translate it llater if there's some interest. I don't know what other information I should add on it. Any suggestions ?

[buggs_moran]

I think I finally got it right for Europa. I'm starting to add some trivial text. For the moment, it's in French (since I'll be using the model in my astronomy courses), but I'll translate it later if there's some interest. I don't know what other information I should add on it. Any suggestions ?

I would think you could add temperatures at the surface due to Jupiter's radiation and some conjecture of temperature as you descend. Here is a bit more technical look at the ocean information...
http://www.lpl.arizona.edu/~rlorenz/europa.pdf

Also, if you do a close up, you could include the possibility of volcanic vents. Although Europa is much further from Jupiter than Io, it supposedly still would encounter a fair amount of tidal force heating.

[Cham]

Here's the actual model, with text information on it (sorry, it's in French, but I think it is self-explanatory). I'm not a geologist, so please tell me if something is wrong. What about the chemical composition of silicates (mantle) ? If you want me to publish this model, give your comments !

Click thumbnail to enlarge :



EDIT : I'm now trying to add a magma pocket with a "small" submarine volcano. I'm not sure I'm on the right modeling track. Maybe I should try to make it 3D, instead than a flat drawing. Maybe I'm pushing this too far !?

[Cham]

I had a great idea, perfect for classroom presentations : selden's style billboards on the model :



I intend to place three to four high resolution (1k) pictures on flat billboards around the model, to hide the worst texture parts of Europa's surface, and to show some surface details and features.

[Fenerit]

Fantastic works, Cham. My Scientific American pictures of Jovian's moon were exactly these, I do not remember it! How do you make the magma and the vulcanic, either 3d or with texture paint, it's all right for me.

Now I'm working on a different thing: the screenshot below show a portrayal of the "inductor" of the outer core's electromagnetic dynamo from which could be emanates the field lines of the Magnetic Earth.

http://shutter12.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... 4G0300.jpg

I've attempt to sect it in conformity to the break and to animate, but do not look fine in both the cases, expecially in the latter, which could be going to interfere with the field lines. If you find the thing interesting, the link below contain the 3d model.

http://www.bestsharing.com/files/KzmilI ... r.zip.html

[Aphyle2007]

Now I'm working on a different thing: the screenshot below show a portrayal of the "inductor" of the outer core's electromagnetic dynamo from which could be emanates the field lines of the Magnetic Earth.

http://shutter12.pictures.aol.com/data/ ... 4G0300.jpg

Really nice rendering - you captured much of the seismic data graphically I was going to send numerically. No need now. But the S-wave should not make it past the mantle-outer core interface and appear on the inner core. Shear waves do not travel through liquids.. Mineralogically, I have some info for you:

From near surface to 410 Km - Olivine
From 410 Km to 520 Km - Wadsleyite
From 520 Km to 660 Km - Ringwoodite (@ 1600 degrees C)

These all have the same chemical formula (Mg, Fe)2SiO4. Olivine and Wadsleyite are orthorhombic, but at 520 Km, pressure forces the structure to become isometric - more compact.

Below 660 Km to 2900 Km, it is approximately 70% Perovskite ( (Mg, Fe)SiO3 ) and 30% Magnesiowustite ( (Mg, Fe)O ).

Are your seismic lines available as a separate download or part of an upgraded add-on? I'd love to share your model with a group of Earth science teacher educators at the end of May.

Eric

[Cham]

Guys, what do you think of this disposition of billboards and their size ? I think this is the best looking, non-obstrusive configuration. The user can get very close to each of them, very easily, to watch the details without losing the sense of orientation relative to the rest of the model. If you agree, I'll release the addon this way.

[Fenerit]

For Aphyle2007. The shear wave (green line) do not cross the outer core, but as explain in the legend of original graphical data from which I've extract the diagram, the S-wave recompared in the inner core when a fraction of compressional wave were trasformed in S- wave at the boundary liquid-solid and it were represented in this manner, with a small green line the inner core (Jeanloz-Lay article).

Yes, all the altmaps are ready for the model; I'm ending some retouch and then you will find these here successively. If you be sure that your graphic card manage the .DDS extension, in the zip pack you will find even this format (more fast to load).

Your new data will not insert in these for not messy the map, but I'm thinking of insert it in a new map more "rocks" dedicated and your informations are TOTALLY appreciated.

[buggs_moran]

Love it Cham

[Cham]

I think that this concept of addons is under-exploited in Celestia : schematic models with textual information displayed on them, with billboards "floating" in space, can be very fun. We should see more of this type of objects in Celestia. However, this again shows the necessity of a new set of "custom" classes in Celestia ("moon", "asteroid", "spacecraft", "custom1", "custom2", etc...). By switching ON/OFF the custom classes on demand could bring a whole new "Celestia experience". In the case of my Europa model, the problem I'm experiencing right now is its location : where should I put it in space ? I don't want it to be obstrusive, especially if it needs to be located in the jovian system.

[chris]

I think that this concept of addons is under-exploited in Celestia : schematic models with textual information displayed on them, with billboards "floating" in space, can be very fun. We should see more of this type of objects in Celestia. However, this again shows the necessity of a new set of "custom" classes in Celestia ("moon", "asteroid", "spacecraft", "custom1", "custom2", etc...). By switching ON/OFF the custom classes on demand could bring a whole new "Celestia experience". In the case of my Europa model, the problem I'm experiencing right now is its location : where should I put it in space ? I don't want it to be obstrusive, especially if it needs to be located in the jovian system.

Custom classes and the ability to show and hide individual objects are very high priority features for Celestia. Your Europa model is one of many add-ons that would benefit. One usage I have in mind is for visualizing the different families of irregular satellites that orbit the giant planets: I'd like to be able to highlight, say, the orbits of all the satellites of the Ananke family.

It's worth starting a thread in the Celestia Development forum to discuss this feature. How should it look in ssc, stc, and dsc files? What UI mechanisms should there be to toggle the visibility of various object classes? What about their labels and orbit paths? Obviously, scripts should be able to work with classes, but it seems like some support should be there in the basic UI.

--Chris

[Cham]

Chris,

I agree to start a new topic on "custom classes" in the development thread. This is a very important feature indeed.

[Aphyle2007]

For Aphyle2007. The shear wave (green line) do not cross the outer core, but as explain in the legend of original graphical data from which I've extract the diagram, the S-wave recompared in the inner core when a fraction of compressional wave were trasformed in S- wave at the boundary liquid-solid and it were represented in this manner, with a small green line the inner core (Jeanloz-Lay article).

Yes, all the altmaps are ready for the model; I'm ending some retouch and then you will find these here successively. If you be sure that your graphic card manage the .DDS extension, in the zip pack you will find even this format (more fast to load).

Your new data will not insert in these for not messy the map, but I'm thinking of insert it in a new map more "rocks" dedicated and your informations are TOTALLY appreciated.

Fenerit,

I see what you mean about the waves - that makes sense, and I will take a look at this article relative to the wave transformation. I'd love to see what our geophysicist thinks.

I'm not sure about my graphics card and .DDS - maybe someone else can chime in - but I'm using a MacBook Pro Core Duo with the ATI Radeon 256 Mb card and 2 GB RAM. Still, I'll try. In a pinch, I can use a PC. So send on the ZIP file when you are ready.

I agree with you - the mineral data on the current map would just be messy. Given the billboard ideas tossed about for Ganymede at the curren ttime, perhaps similar billboards for the mineral structures or example photographs can be placed on the dedicated "rock" map. What do you think?

Again, your work is quite impressive and my students enjoy hearing about this conversation.

Eric