List of galactic clusters and voids

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Cham M
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #61by Cham » 01.09.2008, 12:14

t00fri wrote:I have also right away suggested that you should use the higher order comoving definition of distance, which you now correctly did...

You would have right away realized that the straight radial patterns in my Celestia database are NOT artefacts, but the onset of the famous large scale structure seen so clearly in the Sloan DSS.

Fridger,

I did used the comoving distance for the clusters ! The difference (small z) is really tiny in their case. The difference can be noticeable for z around 1, and it's more important in the case of the CMOD model based on the LOAN database.

In the case of your database, there are several galaxies which are standing on the surface of spheres, like these two examples :
sphere1.jpg
sphere2.jpg


This is certainly not "physical", and a proof that there are strong uncertainties and/or systematic errors on radial distances (I already indicated these cases to you, a long time ago while you were in the process of building the database. On my suggestion, you accepted to leave them the way they are, since they are good examples of the kind of distance uncertainties we can find in any astronomical databases). Also, the radial lines I was talking about can be made to disappear on the SLOAN models, since there's a "confidence" constraint. For the model I made, I used the same constraints as Selden : minimal confidence 0.2, which is pretty low. It isn't suprising that there are radial artifacts in this case. Using an higher level confidence (0.7, say) filters all the uncertain galaxies and removes the radial artifacts. I'm building another CMOD model right now without these radial lines (there are less galaxies, though, so the model is less "strong" in Celestia).
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

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Cham M
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #62by Cham » 01.09.2008, 14:15

Grrrr ! Maybe I was a bit too enthusiastic with the SLOAN database. These guys covered a large part of the sky, with many holes and missing parts. I made a complete model of all the database (with a strong confidence parameter), and here what it gives, close to the Milky Way at large FOV :
sloan1.jpg


From the sides, it looks like this :
sloan2.jpg


It may be fun to navigate inside the distribution, but it's too thick to be really usefull. What a 3D mess !
sloan3.jpg


Looks like a fog, inside. The CMOD file is pretty huge, anyway. A simple slice is better, so I may stick with my previous model with the low confidence level (for a larger number of points).
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

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Cham M
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #63by Cham » 01.09.2008, 14:26

Oh, and by the way, there are some correlations with the WMAP texture in there ! It's really not obvious at first, but toggling ON/OFF the WMAP layer several times in Celestia can reveal the correlations (as seen on the celestial sphere, close to Earth. Not in 3D, of course !) :
wmap.jpg
"Well! I've often seen a cat without a grin", thought Alice; "but a grin without a cat! It's the most curious thing I ever saw in all my life!"

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t00fri
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #64by t00fri » 01.09.2008, 22:17

Cham wrote:[
...
This is certainly not "physical", and a proof that there are strong uncertainties and/or systematic errors on radial distances (I already indicated these cases to you, a long time ago while you were in the process of building the database. On my suggestion, you accepted to leave them the way they are, since they are good examples of the kind of distance uncertainties we can find in any astronomical databases).
...

Come on! You are talking about several galaxies out of 10000!!! Of course, there are some remaining uncertainties, they are even clearly marked in my database.
But it is simply ridiculous to talk about "strong uncertainties" in such isolated cases. I have explained to you in physical terms what the typical occurrences of uncertainties are, about which we cannot do anything.

But your criticism before clearlyand incorrectly centered around the radial streaks which are physical NO DOUBT.

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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #65by t00fri » 06.09.2008, 15:18

For people interested in a Cosmology continuation of my constructive dispute with Cham (Martin) here, I have prepared the ground with a first post (including a new plot!) in CelestialMatters.

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=258

The next crucial issue is to merge the finalized Sloan DSS data into this interesting Conformal Princeton Plot of Celestia's database of 10000+ galaxies...

I hope my CM thread/project on "Cosmological Visualization beyond Celestia" will gain more substance soon... ;-)

Fridger
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #66by t00fri » 07.09.2008, 21:20

Friends and cosmology freaks,

I did some very interesting, extensive analysis with the finalized 335098 Sloan DSS galaxy data for 0<z<1 and 0 <= RA <= 24h over in CelestialMatters. Have a look here:

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewt ... 58&start=2

In my post, I also prepared an archive for download, containing the data for these 335098 Sloan galaxies (RA, Dec, distance[ly]). The archive also contains my Perl script that converts the redshifts z from the Sloan server into real distances.

+++++++++++++++++++++
In the near future there will be much more activity in our CelestialMatters site about my Cosmological Visualisation project and related issues ...
+++++++++++++++++++++



Enjoy,
Fridger
Last edited by t00fri on 08.09.2008, 23:06, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #67by t00fri » 08.09.2008, 22:12

Friends and cosmology fans,

As I explained in my PROLOG before the corrected long post of mine from yesterday,

http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewt ... 58&start=2

there was a STUPID conversion error that crept into my Sloan DSS DR6 distance conversion (an excessive pc2ly=3.26167 factor!).

++++++++++++++++++++++++
I had to redo all the plots and decided to rather edit my above long CM post, than to add the same stuff once more...
++++++++++++++++++++++++

So please start again reading my previous post! It's definitely worth it I think ;-)
Sorry for any inconveniences.

Also please download the data archive with the extracted Sloan DSS DR6 data once more, if you are interested.

http://www.celestialmatters.org/users/t ... 6_data.zip

I am very grateful to Guckytos aka Christian, who looked at my plots today much more attentively than me and suggested that there was a normalization error!

Fridger
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Re: List of galactic clusters and voids

Post #68by ElChristou » 12.09.2008, 06:11

(Off topic but related to the way to represent a database, could it be possible to do a cmod model of the kuiper belt known bodies?)
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