Celestia Forums

ElChristou wrote:Hello, everybody! So here we are, the three of us + an outsider, non member of the forum, in charge of the calculation of orbits...
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Necessary models and commentary on progress:

- Instruments on ground (antennas, flag, etc...) -- 0%,----------

Chris, I have the list of the instruments grounded during Apollo 11 Moon EVA.
They are:
1- solar wind experiment
2- seismometer- (this operated only three weeks: it sensed the astronauts boots (!) when, released from the CM, they hit the Moon surface, but remaining operative for only three weeks, it missed the crash of LEM's AM (Ascent Module), that happened 1 to 4 months after astronauts departure)
3- Laser reflector
4- TV camera
5- US flag
6- Stereo Close-Up Camera (ADDED LATER)
Strangely, even if the big 3 meter S-band antenna was ready and the astronauts completed the training for opening it on the Moon, it was not carried on Apollo 11 because not needed. But it was used in the following missions.

I found Hi-Res images of all of them, but the total dimnsion is big, 27 Mb divided in 3 rar files 9 MB each.
Where can I upload them? Megaupload is OK for you?
Please inform me, tks.
Bye

Andrea

TERRIER wrote: Cheers ....Here's one more item, aNASA PDF documentcovering just about every test and concept for the LEM landing gear (including it's original 5-legged design !), plus performance data from the actual landing .
Hopefuly you've got more than enough info now for this part of the project! regards

Thank you Terrier, I was missing this document.
Yes, I think we have enough information on the landing gear.
But I'm searching for another information, that I cannot find:
what happened to the Apollo 11 Service Module SM, the cilindrical body with the big engine nozzle, that was attached to the CM (Command Module) for the return to Earth, but was fired away before reaching the atmosphere?
Where did it go?
Any information on this will be very appreciated, thank you.
Bye

Andrea

ANDREA wrote:...Chris, the Apollo11-Official_FlightPlan.rar file (4.4 MB) has been uploaded to your FTP address just now...

Of course, but this is public and can be download by anyone; just look at:

http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/

and you can download all the content; you can copy/past the url's in the forum's thread without problem...

ANDREA wrote:...
I found Hi-Res images of all of them, but the total dimnsion is big, 27 Mb divided in 3 rar files 9 MB each.
Where can I upload them? Megaupload is OK for you?
Please inform me, tks...

No, no, all on the FTP, then links on the thread... (all those Megaupload and else are not practical...)

Happy to see you back Terrier!

Guys, I haven't taken the time to read the pdf(s) yet but do we know the exact moment of the opening of the legs?

ElChristou wrote: No, no, all on the FTP, then links on the thread... (all those Megaupload and else are not practical...)

Done, all the instruments images files can be found at the following links:
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/ ... ENTS-1.rar
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/ ... ENTS-2.rar
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/ ... ENTS-3.rar

Moreover I found a series of four (horrible) drawings that give the sequence of opening of the Saturn Stage III, the exit and reverse positioning of CM-SM, and then the exit of the LEM.





Not good for modelling, but very clear for the operations sequence. Anyhow I hope to find something more detailed.
Bye

Andrea

Guys, after re visiting may images, my 3rd stage test model need a modif; I try to do this for tomorrow...

ElChristou wrote:Guys, after re visiting may images, my 3rd stage test model need a modif; I try to do this for tomorrow...

Chris, I have bigger images of the above 4 drawings, you'll find them here:
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/opening1.jpg
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/opening2.jpg
Hope will help you.
Bye

Andrea

ANDREA wrote:Chris, I have bigger images of the above 4 drawings, you'll find them here:
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/opening1.jpg
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/opening2.jpg
Hope will help you...

Well, not much in the sense I would like a photo of the inner part of those panels to be sure the structure is like this (during assembly perhaps?)

Hey, you guys from Nasa, no good links for us?

ElChristou wrote:.... I would like a photo of the inner part of those panels to be sure the structure is like this (during assembly perhaps?

How about this one - not during assembly; rather during the Apollo 7 mission, in which the crew simulated the transposition and docking exercise. The round, white disc inside the open panels of the Saturn IVB is a docking target similar to that used on the lunar module.



Hey?

Another (also Apollo 7):



Hi-Ho

Thank you, cs, your image shows the stage before manned Apollo missins, and this one is after Apollo manned missions (it's during the SlyLab tests)



so I think we can be almost sure that the differences, if any, are minimal, and the Apollo 7 detailed images can solve the problem.
Thank you CurlSnout!
So I have found a total of six Apollo 7 opened stage images, at full resolution, that can be found here:

http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/ ... _orbit.rar

Moreover, here are two external images, showing details of the 4 panels:





Their original images can be found here:
http://nho.ohn.free.fr/celestia/Andrea/ ... dapter.rar
Bye soon

Andrea

ANDREA wrote:During the final approach to the Moon, each LEM's leg had a probe, hanging down from the pad, used to confirm the last inches of distance from the ground.

As Andrea suggests, I believe these were simple hinged switches which were responsible for the words "contact light" uttered by Armstrong confirming the landing (while hanging vertically, the light is off, but on landing, the circuit is closed) so yes, they were no doubt expendible, after performing their only task on the mission...to light an indicator light on the pilot's dash.

Sorry to be late, I had to work today...

Very cool docs, all good for modelling! Now seems there was 2 windows on 2 of the panels, I cannot imagine the use of such...

Concerning the 4 panels of the SLA, someone knows if they were completely jettisonned like one can see in the photo of Apollo 9, or just open like the photos above...

They are jettisoned.

ElChristou wrote:Sorry to be late, I had to work today...
Very cool docs, all good for modelling! Now seems there was 2 windows on 2 of the panels, I cannot imagine the use of such...
Concerning the 4 panels of the SLA, someone knows if they were completely jettisonned like one can see in the photo of Apollo 9, or just open like the photos above...

I had the same doubt, we have many images showing the SLA WITHOUT the panels and the LEM still in, like this one (Apollo 11),



so I was thinking that they were jettisoned, probably after the CM-SM detachment.
I made another search, and I found the NASA AS12-50-7326 image where we can see, as told in its didascaly, the:
"View of Earth from Apollo 12 (note the Spacecraft-Lunar Module Adapter panel which can be seen tumbling away)"
Here is the image clip, showing a close-up of the panel:



So we can be sure that the four panels were jettisoned from the module.
Bye

Andrea

ANDREA wrote:so I was thinking that they were jettisoned, probably after the CM-SM detachment.
I made another search, and I found the NASA AS12-50-7326 image where we acn see, as told in its didascaly, the:
"View of Earth from Apollo 12 (note the Spacecraft-Lunar Module Adapter panel which can be seen tumbling away)"
Here is the image clip, showing a close-up of the panel:



So we can be sure that the four panels were jettisoned from the module.

They were jettisoned in the flights from Apollo 8 on, over concerns from one of them sticking or getting in the way of or potentially damaging the CSM.

Aphyle2007

Ok, the 3rd stage test model is ready again... Linuxm@n? 1 files or 7?

(Click to enlarge)



So, ok the panels were jettisoned, but any clue when exactly?

ElChristou wrote:
So, ok the panels were jettisoned, but any clue when exactly?

Here's another link to the useful Apollo Maniacs site which shows a timeline for key events of the Apollo 11 mission.

Hopefully these can be confirmed by other documents, such as the NASA Apollo 11 Mission Report PDF file which I've not looked at too carefully yet.

regards,
TERRIER

TERRIER wrote:

ElChristou wrote: So, ok the panels were jettisoned, but any clue when exactly?

Here's another link to the useful Apollo Maniacs site which shows a timeline for key events of the Apollo 11 mission.

Thank you Terrier, very interesting.
They give panels jettisoning at about 03:17:
"CSM/S-IVB Separation, SLA Panel Jettison".
Then, at 100:13:38 they say:
"CSM pilot checked development conditions of landing gear".
If I follow my logics, this could be the separation schedule:
1- opening of the 4 panels of Saturn module;
2- the CM-SM complex detachs and move some hundred meter far away;
3. the 4 panels are jettisoned (now the crew was safe on the CM-SM, and if any problem occurred during the jettisoning, only the LEM could be damaged, without problems for the crew and their safe return to Erath);
4- CM-SM complex rotates 180?° and approaches again the Saturn module with the LEM;
5- CM-SM connects to the LEM;
6- the complex LEM-CM-SM detachs from the Saturn module.

TERRIER wrote:Hopefully these can be confirmed by other documents, such as the NASA Apollo 11 Mission Report PDF file which I've not looked at too carefully yet.
regards, TERRIER

Terrier, this document is very important, but I suggest to use the revised version "Final Apollo 11 Flight Plan (Re-formatted by Thomas Schwagmeier) AS-506, CSM-107/LM-5- April 15, 1969- Prepared by Flight Planning Branch- Flight Crew Support Division" that you can find here:
http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11flt ... format.pdf
It's formatted in a much more readable way, making it easier to be used.
It's a very long and detailed document, 353 pages, so it will need some time to check it carefully.
ADDED LATER: after a first check of this document, I found at 99.2 hours: "Deploy landing gear".
Nice!
Bye

Andrea