3DMars update

[ANDREA]

Andrea,
I still remember way back when. When I was all confused that my fx5500 card could only use 4k textures. The 8800 is supposed to be a good card. You'll get good results from that card.
The 4k textures are not that bad though. Together they make an 8k texture for the vallesmarineris. I think that is = to level6 of a vt... cartrite

Cartrite, your 4k textures are absolutely wonderful, and this is the reason why I cannot wait to see the 8k results.
Not too long to wait... so I'll be patient some more days.

The 8k textures make up a 16k texture though. I like flying around at 60 to 30 km and the 8k's sharpen the scene at that altitude

BTW, was you able to see my url under 1.5.0pre3?
cel://Follow/Sol:Mars:Mars2/2003-07-22T ... lm=0&ver=2
Bye soon

Andrea

[cartrite]

I didn't try it with pre3 because I didn't associate the .cel files when I installed it a few minutes ago. But it worked like a charm with the cvs version I installed via an installer script a few days ago. date 5/20/2007.

cartrite

[ANDREA]

I didn't try it with pre3 because I didn't associate the .cel files when I installed it a few minutes ago. But it worked like a charm with the cvs version I installed via an installer script a few days ago. date 5/20/2007. cartrite

Happy you have seen it, IMHO it's a very nice flight.
Bye

Andrea

[danielj]

No,it??s so FRUSTRATING that I simply GIVE UP.Look to Andrea.He had already had an excellent computer;but now he have a 600 GB in HD and will soon have a 8800 GTX.And for me,only a MIRACLE will allow me to have a computer like that BEFORE 2009...
Celestia is making me sick...almost EVERYONE is only doing ADDONS that work decently ONLY in MONSTER COMPUTERS!(Dual core,2 gig RAM and 7900 GS or better)

Andrea,
Check to see that your max texture size is 8k. The 8kfiles have the same name as the 4k ones, ie valles0, valles1, etc. If they are in the medres folder they should work. I suspect help => opengl info will say your max texture size is 4k. Also if your card does support 8k textures hit the shift ~ key to see the log on screen. It will tell you if there was an error loading or the file was not seen. I've been running the cvs version so I'll download the 1.5.3pre to see if that is what is causing the problem.

Danielj
If your short on ram you could rename the mons files so they won't load ( i used to put an x in front of the name so the files would not load ) or try scaling the 4k textures down to 2k or even 1k. Before I got this newer card I used to do that for either olympus mons or vallesmarineris. So the mons model used 1k textures and the valles model used 2k textures.

cartrite

[t00fri]

No,it??s so FRUSTRATING that I simply
GIVE UP.Look to Andrea.He had already had an excellent
computer;but now he have a 600 GB in HD and will soon
have a 8800 GTX.And for me,only a MIRACLE will allow
me to have a computer like that BEFORE 2009...
Celestia is making me sick...almost EVERYONE is only
doing ADDONS that work decently ONLY in MONSTER
COMPUTERS!(Dual core,2 gig RAM and 7900 GS or
better)

If you tell me how many fps you got by displaying
cartrite's Mars2 (3dmars) add-on with your POWERFUL
7600 graphics card, I tell you how many fps I got with my
old FX5900Ultra. In any case I can get a usable fps rate,
despite this being such an old card.

As far as I can tell, most often the problem with you is
entirely different from what you keep whining about:

in most cases, you simply don't manage to correctly install
these new developments that people are exploring! This
has nothing to do with the (respectable) power of your
computer/graphics card.

For example, above, you again complained that you did not see
cartride's Mars in 3d...I.e. obviously, you forgot that you
have to call cartrite's mars as mars2.

Bye Fridger

[danielj]

Your video card is worse than mine,but you have much more RAM memory.I can barely have around 15 fps in the model,much of the time below 10 fps.I put my Zone Alarm in "Game Mode" and turned off my antivirus.My 3D configuration has everything turned off,except gamma corrected antialiasing,optimization of anisotropic sample,optimization of mip map anisotropic and my texture filtering was adjusted to high perfomance.I also turned off the display of galaxies and nebulas.There is nothing more I can do...
If I reduced the textures to 2k or less,the result is far from satisfying,because the textures will look ugly.

No,it??s so FRUSTRATING that I simply
GIVE UP.Look to Andrea.He had already had an excellent
computer;but now he have a 600 GB in HD and will soon
have a 8800 GTX.And for me,only a MIRACLE will allow
me to have a computer like that BEFORE 2009...
Celestia is making me sick...almost EVERYONE is only
doing ADDONS that work decently ONLY in MONSTER
COMPUTERS!(Dual core,2 gig RAM and 7900 GS or
better)

If you tell me how many fps you got by displaying
cartrite's Mars2 (3dmars) add-on with your POWERFUL
7600 graphics card, I tell you how many fps I got with my
old FX5900Ultra. In any case I can get a usable fps rate,
despite this being such an old card.

As far as I can tell, most often the problem with you is
entirely different from what you keep wining about:

in most cases, you simply don't manage to correctly install
these new developments that people are exploring! This
has nothing to do with the (respectable) power of your
computer/graphics card.

For example, above, you again complained that you did not see
cartride's Mars in 3d...I.e. obviously, you forgot that you
have to call cartrite's mars as mars2.

Bye Fridger

[cartrite]

danielj,

It wasn't too long ago that I had a 900 mhz computer with 512mb ram. With that computer I managed to create and run the model you are complaining about. See here. http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 1759#71759
or here. http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 8046#68046
or here. http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... 1274#61274
I suspect the computer you have now is better than a amd k7 with 512 mb ram and a ge fx5500 video card.

cartrite

[t00fri]

Your video card is worse than mine,but
you have much more RAM memory.I can barely have
around 15 fps in the model,much of the time below 10
fps.I put my Zone Alarm in "Game Mode" and turned off
my antivirus.My 3D configuration has everything turned
off,except gamma corrected antialiasing,optimization of
anisotropic sample,optimization of mip map anisotropic
and my texture filtering was adjusted to high
perfomance.I also turned off the display of galaxies and
nebulas.There is nothing more I can do...
If I reduced the textures to 2k or less,the result is far
from satisfying,because the textures will look ugly.

It must have been 10 times that I told you that the RAM of
the CPU is not relevant for graphics fps. Also for
cartrite's mars 128MB should be OK.

Under all circumstances you should SWITCH OFF
antialiasing (AA) !!! You may add some mild /anisotropic
filtering/ (2-4x), but AA takes a lot of graphics power! No
wonder that you only got 15 fps. AA is more important for
spacecraft, for example, where men-made "edges" may
look too "digital" otherwise. But for landscapes (Mars) AA
is really not necessary.


The problem with you is that you still don't know how to
operate your machine adequately, despite spending so
much time with your computer.


Bye Fridger

[cartrite]

I discovered that using the "a" key to navigate around the model gets you below the planet's radius. Normally one would not want to do this but to get to the floor of the Vallesmarineris, that is the only way to do it. The mouse wheel gets you only so far. Things look a little different down there.












cartrite

[ANDREA]

No,it??s so FRUSTRATING that I simply GIVE UP.Look to Andrea.He had already had an excellent computer;but now he have a 600 GB in HD and will soon have a 8800 GTX.And for me,only a MIRACLE will allow me to have a computer like that BEFORE 2009...Celestia is making me sick...almost EVERYONE is only doing ADDONS that work decently ONLY in MONSTER COMPUTERS!(Dual core,2 gig RAM and 7900 GS or better)

Danielj, you are truly boring me.
For your information, I'm 63 years old, retired 3 years ago after 35 years of hard work and sacrifices for both me and my wife.
At the beginning of our marriage we were eating flesh only once a month, as soon as I got my salary, half of which was used for our house (very small, indeed) rental, and with the remaining half plus the very small salary of my wife, we had to pay taxes, transports, electrical power, house heating, gas supply for cooking, telephone, dressing, cleaning, washing, etc. ho, and obviously something to eat (but not flesh, as I told).
My wife, when weather was fine, used to go at office by feet, in order to save the bus tickets money.
For many years, when at home after my 9 hours job, I had another activity in order to earn some extra money.
Only after many years of sacrifices, hard work, and two daughters, we could start a different life, with holidays abroad, a purchased house and so on, and better and better as time was going on.
But NEVER, and repeat NEVER (yes, I'm speaking loudly, and I want speak loudly, I truly lost my temper!) we blamed for the bad luck not to be son of a billionaire, and so on.
Instead we worked hard and harder.

So, if now I can afford to buy a 540 Euro graphic card as soon as I wish to do it, or to change my CPU twice a year, I earned it with my toil, not yours.
Please stop teasing with your continuous blaming your misfortune, it doesn't interest us.
Instead try to solve yourself your problems, as most of us at least try to do, while you never do it.
My apologizes to all Celestians (excluding danielj) for this long vent to my anger, but I cannot tolerate one more word on this matter from him.

Andrea

[Cham]

I agree with you, Andrea. I'm also completely pissed off by danielj and his attitude. It's ALWAYS the same with him : complaint and whining like a small 5 years old kid. Danielj, if your computer sucks so much and Celestia is so hard on it, why are you still using Celestia ? Just go away to find another game !

[t00fri]

Daniel,

since you continuously complain about your latin-american misfortune, let me just emphasize that with hard work and by learning something sensible, also in Brazil you can have a decent living.

I regularly invite and supervise young physicists from latin-american countries. I just had a young man from Bogota with me, one from Valparaiso/Chile, one from Rio de Janeiro and next comes one from Cuba for half a year. We also have several women physicists and men from Mexico. They all stayed or will stay several months up to one year at my laboratory in Hamburg.

They work hard, study a lot and enjoy their life!

So I know pretty well what is possible and what not in Latin America. I am there about once per year and I also spent many months in Sao Paulo a long time ago.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
None of these most enjoyable people is continuously whining and complaining as you do!!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They all try to make the best of their chances in life and still keep good humor. I know precisely how low some of their salaries are, compared to European or American ones....

How about trying a bit of this positive attitude, too???

Bye Fridger

[danielj]

It??s not that SIMPLE.I??m still a Mastery??s student and don??t have a scholarship anymore.The only I can do is some translations,but in this case,I won??t earn more than 100 dollars per month and only if I have a lot of luck.Even my brother,that is a doctor beggining,have serious problems of money
And there is a particularity of Brazil that maybe you don??t know.The taxes here are abusive,much more than Mexico.The import tax is simply 60% to physical people.
I ONLY would like to have more optimized addons,because is not simple to buy another computer every time there is a slight improvement in Celestia rendering.
In Brazil,or you buy illegal computers or you have to PAY A LOT OF TAXES.
And is not only this:"good" computers in my country is a Celeron,512 MB of RAM and GF 6200.In Mexico,the situation is much better because they have NAFTA.But here in Brazil,everything is expensive and is really one of the CLOSED countries in the world...

Daniel,

since you continuously complain about your latin-american misfortune, let me just emphasize that with hard work and by learning something sensible, also in Brazil you can have a decent living.

I regularly invite and supervise young physicists from latin-american countries. I just had a young man from Bogota with me, one from Valparaiso/Chile, one from Rio de Janeiro and next comes one from Cuba for half a year. We also have several women physicists and men from Mexico. They all stayed or will stay several months up to one year at my laboratory in Hamburg.

They work hard, study a lot and enjoy their life!

So I know pretty well what is possible and what not in Latin America. I am there about once per year and I also spent many months in Sao Paulo a long time ago.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
None of these most enjoyable people is continuously whining and complaining as you do!!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

They all try to make the best of their chances in life and still keep good humor. I know precisely how low some of their salaries are, compared to European or American ones....

How about trying a bit of this positive attitude, too???

Bye Fridger

[cartrite]

A work in progress.
A couple of screen shots while I was running Blender. These shots are from a 1 degree tile centered on 11.5s and 291e. The image used as a texture is a mosaic using a browse image from the hirise page for orbit /ORB_004000_004099/PSP_004054_1675/. The color portion was from the output cube I processed with ISIS3 of the same orbit. I didn't process the red ccd's to produce the gray image yet. The other parts were cropped out of a file thm_dir_N-30_270.png. The resulting file was 256x256 and scaled up to 8kx8k. The hirise images were scaled down a great deal to fit inside the 8k tile. The color portion at 9.75 ppm. The .5 ppm is about 31000 pixels high . The .5 ppm image scaled down 50% can be seen here


I created the model by cropping a 1 degree tile from the file megt00n270hb.img 128 points/degree. Then I converted it to a USGS dem with 3dem. Then I converted it to a waveobj file with Wibur.exe. The output range

Code: Select all

Minx=-0.197222  Maxx=-0.191666
Miny=-0.069444  Maxy=-0.063888
16x Minz=-0.0038854384
16x Maxz=0.000769384


Then used Anim8or to add normals so it could be imported to Blender. In Blender the z coordinates were scaled down to 1x. If the file was imported at 1x there was much loss of data. I'm going to have to have smaller areas to get to use the higher resolution hirise images.






When I finish this model it will be placed in the vallesmarineris portion of the 3dmars model.

I've also been thinking about doing a rover addon with one of the recent hirise images that show the rover tracks. The rovers movements could be tracked with Spice data. The model and Hirise texture could get the view right to ground level. Future???

cartrite

[Fenerit]

Very impressive, Cartrite.

Danielj, I've read here and there some contrasts among you and the others. I think that your struggle rise from an excess of LOVE for Celestia, but that love is somewhat bad secluded. If I like to see a chewing gum splattered on the asphalt but I'm unable to push up my machine until that VT level, there is not problem, I'll take from the program only what my machine will be able to show, and brought on my mind that it is possible, for the future machine. But never I'll leave my son without eating for buying that machine. Second, consider how to be irresponsible to get all in the same time; what should say Henrich Hertz nowaday if could resuscitate; had him what of which has been one of the pionieers? Third, consider how an addon, or texture or script that work fine on a "slow" CPU it can work much more fine on a powerful computer; this is important because you can develop and share an addon that is much more less problematic for the end user. Fourth, I think that certain assessments to be politics, and this is against the guideline forum's rules.

[Tuefish]

I personally think that Cartrite's work is mind-bogglingly amazing, and seeing as this is a topic for displaying the progress of this addon, perhaps we should all refrain from commenting on the political state of Brazil (or any country for that matter) or our lack of up-to-date equipment (the computer I use is a three-year-old laptop) and instead focus on the excellence of the 3d mars addon, after all, Cartrite is the one putting all the hard work into 3d format for us all to enjoy. Good work Cartrite!

[Darkmiss]

Danielj your ranting is getting out of hand and annoying now STOP IT!

There have been many an addon that I have not been able to install in the past, so I didn't install them

And because of this I have never yet installed a virtual texture to this day.
Because when virtual textures first started, my machine was too small to use them.

I want a large boat in the monaco harbour - But I can't have one.
I want a large mansion house in the country - But I can't have one.
I want so much more than I have - But I can't.

Be thankful for what you do have, and Use what you can use.

And just to repaeat myself about the ranting, Just STOP IT! Grow up.

We dont put our System specs here in the signiture strip just to annoy you.
They are here to help the Celestia designers solve problems.

[cartrite]

A little help from math wizards here, please? Math is one of my weak points.
To come up with the numbers above I used the following:
Given 463 meters = 1 pixel
128 pixels = 1 degree
for x -1 = -180 degrees west
1 = 180 degrees east
minx = -69.5 west or 290.5 east
minx = abs 1 / 360 * 110.5
minx = -abs
maxx = -68.5 west or 291.5 east
maxx = abs 1 / 360 * 109.5
maxx = -abs
for y -.5 = -90 degrees south
.5 = 90 degrees north
miny = -12.5 degrees south
maxy = -11.5 degrees south
miny = abs 1 / 180 * 12.5
miny = -abs
maxy = abs 1 / 180 * 11.5
maxy = -abs
range=616 meters to -5050 meters
minz = -abs 1/463 /128 /360 * 5050
maxz = abs 1/463 /128 /360 * 616
Does this sound correct? I'm assuming that Wilbur.exe will output the correct values if the correct range is given.


cartrite

[cartrite]

I have recently upgraded my version of Blender to 64bit 2.45 and had to remake the model I've done in the past with older versions. I also had to rewrite a lot of the scripts I was using. Anyhow, I increased the coverage area of the Vallesmarineris east and west. I also increased the coverage area of Olympus Mons north. I don't know when I'm going to find the time to finish the textures though. They will be based on Themis images and Moc or MDIM21 to fill in the voids. There will also be a very high resolution section in the Vallesmarineris that's been created from MEX HRSC data (H344 dem) and a mosaic I did from the CTX camera on MRO. Here are some shots while in Blender.








I did get an exported version into Celestia but there was an error in the new section's radius. Anyhow I decided to start from scratch. While building the model I made another mistake in the coverage area that I didn't discover until I was mapping the UV's. That's why there is increased coverage. The model got about 20 fps even with the extra MEX dem.
cartrite

[cartrite]

Some previews of the new model in Celestia.





Enjoy,
cartrite