Need Help With A Nebula Construction!

Dollan · Post #1by **Dollan** » 21.01.2007, 09:24

Hi folks...

I'm calling out for some desperately needed help in the construction of the IC 410 nebula.

My attempts have failed miserably; I have not the skills in 3D rendering, and I'd really like to use this nebula in an add-on for the ArcBuilder setting.

My goal is to replace an add-on centered on this nebula, and an accompanying fictional system, which I freely admit is probably one of my worst add-ons ever. I'm already working on reconstructing the fictional system, but the nebula, a key piece of scenery for the events in this part of the Galaxy in my setting, is really the lynch-pin for the whole visual endeavor.

At this point, I'd be willing to even pay someone for their aid. I can't afford much, but heck, we can always haggle! :lol:

Anyway, can anyone help? Either answer me here, or feel free to email me. Either way, any responses would be much, much appreciated.

...John...[/url]

Post #2by **selden** » 21.01.2007, 13:21

Correctly modelling a nebula in 3D can be difficult. It's a topic of ongoing scientific research.

To first approximation, the picture that you're referencing looks to be a hollow sphere popping through the surface of a large dark nebula, with a partially open front and dark clouds in front of it.

But despite the label on the picture, its url name is correct: it's a picture of NGC 2175 (cluster) and NGC 2174 (nebula) in Orion, not IC 410 (nebula) and NGC 1893 (cluster) in Auriga. They're many degrees apart on the sky and quite different in appearance. Which one are you really interested in?

p.s.
The author of the Web site certainly is confused. The referencing page properly names it as NGC 2175, but places it in Gemini. Granted, it's close to the border between the two, but it is within the official bounds of Orion.

Dollan · Post #3by **Dollan** » 21.01.2007, 17:48

selden wrote:Correctly modelling a nebula in 3D can be difficult. It's a topic of ongoing scientific research.

I'm definitely not looking for a scientifically accurate representation, as I know that such a thing is barely possible. We just don't know enough to map it out in three dimensions correctly. What I'm looking for, though, is something more than a simple billboard model. I was hoping for something that definitely had some depth to it, something where this fictional system could be imbedded within, with arms of the nebulosity reaching out on either side. My goal is something visually pleasing, rather than simple background fodder.

...But despite the label on the picture, its url name is correct: it's a picture of NGC 2175 (cluster) and NGC 2174 (nebula) in Orion, not IC 410 (nebula) and NGC 1893 (cluster) in Auriga. They're many degrees apart on the sky and quite different in appearance. Which one are you really interested in?

That's what I get for doing this so late, last night. I had a nasty bout of insomnia, and while I couldn't sleep, I doubt that my faculties were entirely intact!

At any rate, I'm definitely interested in IC 410. Here's a link to the APOD image of it as a whole, with the associated and imbedded open cluster NGC 1893. Here's a "close-up", though this kind of detail might be way too much. What I envision, then, is a roughly spherical model of the red nebulosity, with peaks and valleys, as it were, and the associated open cluster.

Do you think something like this is relatively easily done? I don't want someone to spend a huge amount of time on it, and for all I know, my wishes might be entirely unreasonable. Perhaps the first step should be, what can be done with a fairly easy amount of effort?

...John...

Post #4by **t00fri** » 21.01.2007, 18:15

John,

obviously the user Jll is your man! See here, he's a master in doing 3d nebulae. RCW 79 as an example.

Since you are anyway entirely in "phantasy land" take one of his nebulae and rename them ;-)

. Perhaps he even teaches you how to replace RCW 79 by IC 410 imaging. They are not all that different ;-)

Bye Fridger

Post #5by **selden** » 21.01.2007, 18:31

A problem with those particular images of IC410 is that they're copyrighted, so you can't redistribute them without explicit permission of the people to took the photographs. I don't know how hard getting permission might be.

An image that can be redistributed by amateur astronomers for educational outreach (which I think might be stretched to describe what you're doing) is on the NOAO Web site at

http://www.noao.edu/outreach/aop/observ ... 0wide.html

Dollan · Post #6by **Dollan** » 21.01.2007, 19:05

Fridger...

Wow... Those images are absolutely beautiful! How have I missed them before! Even the nebula itself might be positioned in a close enough spot to use, at 17,000 light years, to warrant a change in position. I need to find itsd location in the Galaxy, though, to be certain.

However, I'll ask Jll about re-texturing the model just in case RCW 79 is not located where I need it to be; I'll have to ask permission to use the nebula, in any case. Thanks for the tip!

Selden...

Thanks for the image link! Those that I linked to initially were the first examples that I found this morning in a quick and dirty Google search.

Okay, I'm off to try and find that nebula add-on of Jll's, and then to contact him about usage.

...John...

Post #7by **t00fri** » 21.01.2007, 19:19

Dollan wrote:Fridger...

Wow... Those images are absolutely beautiful! How have I missed them before! Even the nebula itself might be positioned in a close enough spot to use, at 17,000 light years, to warrant a change in position. I need to find itsd location in the Galaxy, though, to be certain.

However, I'll ask Jll about re-texturing the model just in case RCW 79 is not located where I need it to be; I'll have to ask permission to use the nebula, in any case. Thanks for the tip!

...John...

John,

just install jll's add-on about RCW 79: you may fly right through the nebula! It's amazing. I think it's just what you want.

Bye Fridger

Dollan · Post #8by **Dollan** » 21.01.2007, 19:23

t00fri wrote:John,

just install jll's add-on about RCW 79: you may fly right through the nebula! It's amazing. I think it's just what you want.

Bye Fridger

Yeah, I just did that, and I am absolutely amazed! Not only is the nebula absolutely beautiful (I do wish I could get all the new haze effects with this computer), but it is actually placed properly for the setting in the story of mine. I hadn't realized it, but the IC 410 nebula I had so crudely constructed was not only ugly (THAT I realized!), but it was in the completely wrong spot!

Anyway, I've email Jll (hopefully, the email at the Motherlode was the correct one) about using it. With any luck, I'll get permission. This guy has an amazing talent, definitely! I'm looking through his other nebula add-ons, and they're just as cool!

...John...

Post #9by **t00fri** » 21.01.2007, 19:32

Dollan wrote:
t00fri wrote:John,

just install jll's add-on about RCW 79: you may fly right through the nebula! It's amazing. I think it's just what you want.

Bye Fridger

Yeah, I just did that, and I am absolutely amazed! Not only is the nebula absolutely beautiful (I do wish I could get all the new haze effects with this computer), but it is actually placed properly for the setting in the story of mine. I hadn't realized it, but the IC 410 nebula I had so crudely constructed was not only ugly (THAT I realized!), but it was in the completely wrong spot!

Anyway, I've email Jll (hopefully, the email at the Motherlode was the correct one) about using it. With any luck, I'll get permission. This guy has an amazing talent, definitely! I'm looking through his other nebula add-ons, and they're just as cool!

...John...

jll comes regularly to the forum. So you may as well send him a PM. I had plenty of exchanges with him this way.

Bye Fridger