What became of the (Celestia) Vostok?

[CurlSnout]

Several months ago there was news regarding what appeared to be an outstanding (!) and almost-completed rendition of the Russian space program's Vostok for Celestia.

http://www.celestiaproject.net/forum/viewtopic ... ght=vostok

Did it come and go? Did I miss it? Anybody know anything?

[ElChristou]

Nope, I haven't released it in a first period because of a lack of time, and now because I'm waiting for the fix of the CmodTool under osX; as I release my models only in cmod version, I want to give to the public the best files possible (lighter and good FPS).
As soon as the new CmodTool will be released, I will realeased not only the Vostok but also Atlantis with the open payload bay...

Bye

[jgrillo2002]

Oh give me a break. Christou. you expect this version of cmod to come out so that you can convert it to CMOD. why not 3DS. dont you even care about orbiter or anything . NO. all you care about is yourself. im disgusted with you telling me that "its only for celestia and only celestia" for your models.. if you are that stupid of wanting to try orbiter before releasin your models as 3DS the Get a da&% PC for godsakes

and dont even bothering about not doing it becuase I always wanted a accurate model of the shuttle

[selden]

jgrillo,

Personal attacks are not acceptable on the Celestia bulletin board. Please edit your message to phrase your statements in another manner. I would hate to have to have you banned.

Requests for enhancements are always welcome, although only a few get implemented. Waiting for one that never happens can be frustrating. Personally, I've decided to go ahead with my own projects and incorporate improvements as they become available.

[ANDREA]

..... NO. all you care about is yourself. im disgusted with you telling me that "its only for celestia and only celestia" for your models.. ....

Hello Zachary (jgrillo2002), what's your problem?
I gave a look at your (not so many) posts, and I feel that you have produced nothing for Celestia community, from your first post (Fri Jul 26, 2002 3:35 am) in which you say that you are "very smart":
[quote]"Hi, My Name is Zachary Grillo, & I would like to help you guys on this forum, I am very smart. But I dont know how to make new planets or asteroids, etc for celestia. can you guys please..."[/quote]
Yes, "community", that means a group of free people that freely and free of charge produce and exchange all the incredible stuff that's available for all of us.
But this is not a job, so each of us uses his own time as he can and wishes to do, and obviously not only for Celestia.
Moreover, everyone has his own way to use Celestia, so there you'll find who prefers sci-fi textures and scripts, other that wish "ONLY" scientific and demonstrable addons, other like me that use Celestia for educational purposes, and so on.
Each of us tries, for what are our own capabilities, experience and knowlredge, to add a little cent to the Celestia big treasure, but noone has to say me or any other people what and when to do it.
Some time ago I took an engagement with ElChristou, regarding the search of images and documents for his Mercury project, and later on for his Vostok project.
I gave him all the material I found, and now I'm waiting, like you and other people, the moment in which ElChristou will release this addon.
But I will never say "hurry up" to ElChristou or any other people that's producing the wonders that I (and you) can use in Celestia.
This not to defend ElChristou, obviously he doesn't need it, but to clarify you that ALL what you get in Celestia is free and obtained thanks to the many author's free time, that they use on programming and texturing instead of staying with the family, going to see a movie, drinking a beer, listening music or what else.
And with the holy right to make it in the way the author prefers, be it a Cmod or 3DS addon or any other stuff.
All your absolutely inacceptable aggressiveness comes from your "Orbiter" oriented point of view, so you want someone else will produce Vostok in 3DS ,so that you can use it in that software?
Well, if you are in such a hurry for Orbiter Vostok 3DS addon, learn to produce it by yourself, please, and don't tease who already is working for all of us!
Hope that my bad English may be clear even for you.
Thank you!

Andrea

[jgrillo2002]

I dont mind waiting but the problem is that He doesnt want to implement his models to a 3DS format like a generous person becuase he wants to be "too greedy" with celestia only and not care with any programs. im leaving here becuase of him and his disgrace. consider myself dead. good bye

[Malenfant]

I'm somewhat boggled at jgrillo's attitude... Christou has no obligation whatsoever to release any models in any format other than what he wants. (heck, he has no obligation whatsoever to release any models at all, it's entirely voluntary). And if he wants to do it in CMOD only then them's the breaks.

That said, as I understand it CMODs are unique to Celestia and are difficult to convert to other formats, and by releasing only in CMOD format it narrows the possible audience for it significantly. But it may be that he can't make the model in any other format anyway.

Either way, throwing a strop that you're not getting what YOU want isn't helping anyone.

[ElChristou]

Ok, once more for Jgrillo2002...

The only purpose (for me) of doing models for Celestia are:

- To Thanks first Chris and the Dev Team for their spectacular work, then all people participating in the "Celestia life",

- To make Celestia even more attractive with some nice models.

As you can see there is a simple, strong and unique leitmotiv in those two points: C E L E S T I A ... and nothing else...

I don't care about Orbiter or whatever soft or group or company, so why the hell do you want me to work for free for something that don't interest me?

When I decide to use Cmod, it was first because if Chris took some time to dev this format, I thought why not using it? Then, much later I thought in the possible protection the format could offer...

I will give you an advise:
You are young, don't loose your time in waiting something that will not come.
My models are not sooo fantastic after all, I'm very very far from being the best 3D modeller of the planet, so if you are so interested in 3D models, go ahead, begin to work on this and I assure you that in a few months you will be able to present here a shuttle even better than mine. I will be really pleased if this happen, (not only because we will have a new great shuttle ) but because you will have developped some new skills and participate activelly in this great project.

Now, last thing, if you really don't understand my points, please forget me once for all, I have something better to do than this kind of post...


@ Andrea:

Don't loose faith, I've been really busy lately (more than I was planning), but all those models will see the day of course!
I begin (only now ) to study your docs for Gemini... won't be easy... much more complicated than LB7... well, in all case priority in realeasing Vostok and Shuttle as soon as the converter is fixed.

Bye.

[Malenfant]

When I decide to use Cmod, it was first because if Chris took some time to dev this format, I thought why not using it? Then, much later I thought in the possible protection the format could offer...

Just out of curiosity, what ARE the advantages and 'protections' that the CMOD format offers? At least that make it worth using exclusively rather than use another more commonly used format...

(I'm neutral on all this, I'm just asking cos I don't know what exactly makes CMOD so special - is it just smaller or something?)

[Cham]

I'm disgusted at jgrillo2002's attitude. This way of behavior is totally unacceptable on a forum.

ElChristou is TOTALLY free of doing wathever he wants with his models, so please jgrillo2002 stop your infantile attitude.

[rthorvald]

im disgusted with you telling me that "its only for celestia and only celestia" for your models.. if you are that stupid of wanting to try orbiter before releasin your models as 3DS the Get a da&% PC for godsakes

Uh... Did you just demand that elchristou buy a PC and go to work for you?

-rthorvald

[selden]

Just out of curiosity, what ARE the advantages and 'protections' that the CMOD format offers? At least that make it worth using exclusively rather than use another more commonly used format...

(I'm neutral on all this, I'm just asking cos I don't know what exactly makes CMOD so special - is it just smaller or something?)

Chris designed the CMOD format because he wanted something that would be much more efficient for translation into OpenGL graphics commands than the other 3D formats. None of them were designed with OpenGL in mind. CMOD models run at about 1.5x the framerate of the equivalent 3DS models. Initially they were about 2.5x as fast, but in the process of implementing the code he managed to speed up 3DS, too.

One of its features is that the format optionally includes surface normals, and the 3dstocmod translator can be told to calculate normals that do a reasonably good job of eliminating the seams that often are visible on 3DS models in Celestia.

CMOD also has the advantage that it can be used in ASCII format (but so can Wavefront's OBJ format) so you can edit it easily to fix things if necessary -- like changing the name of the surface texture. 3DS is binary, which makes that more difficult.

The "protection" is just that it isn't well known, so binary CMOD isn't quite as protective as one might like. There's now a shareware format translator that understands most of the format.

[ElChristou]

Damned Selden, don't throw this kind of info!! (your last lines)
For Mister everybody, Cmod is almost useless outside Celestia; but it as nothing of a secured format...
Perhaps this will change soon...

[ANDREA]

@ Andrea:
Don't loose faith, I've been really busy lately (more than I was planning), but all those models will see the day of course!
I begin (only now ) to study your docs for Gemini... won't be easy... much more complicated than LB7... well, in all case priority in realeasing Vostok and Shuttle as soon as the converter is fixed.
Bye.

Chris, believe me, I'm as patient as a 61 years man can be, i.e. much, much, much more than our friend jgrillo2002.
So don't worry, I know very well that it's worthwhile waiting, for the results you'll show us when they will be ready.
Take your time, my friend, this is only an hobby!.
Bye

Andrea

[selden]

I'm locking this thread.