Celestia Forums

Hi,

I am happy to be here.

I downloaded this app after researching about the different map projections. I don't know how far I can use Celestia in order to make some advancements in my project but my first impression of the application is very positive due to its sophisticated visuality.
I believe finding some people here who have much special knowledge about the projection topic in general so here's my question: How can I transform images from NASA's blue marble project into different projections (robinson, mollwide, aitoff, winkel tripel etc)?
What I found myself is NASA's G.Projector and an application for Mathematica. NASA's G.Projector deosn't give me sufficient resolution and "World Map Projections", well I cannot handle Mathematica sufficiently welll

I am looking forward to a reply and hopefully a good advice.

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:Hi,

I am happy to be here.

I downloaded this app after researching about the different map projections. I don't know how far I can use Celestia in order to make some advancements in my project but my first impression of the application is very positive due to its sophisticated visuality.
I believe finding some people here who have much special knowledge about the projection topic in general so here's my question: How can I transform images from NASA's blue marble project into different projections (robinson, mollwide, aitoff, winkel tripel etc)?
What I found myself is NASA's G.Projector and an application for Mathematica. NASA's G.Projector deosn't give me sufficient resolution and "World Map Projections", well I cannot handle Mathematica sufficiently welll

I am looking forward to a reply and hopefully a good advice.

Cheers, tiburcio

Welcome!

It is not entirely clear to me, what exactly you are looking for? Further suggestions of easy-to-handle projection software that is free of charge? Or rather professional style software that is powerful but typically less intuitive to handle?

Most importantly, you didn't specify the operating systems you can use.

Since I am often concerned with reprojections of textures for celestial bodies, I use a good but less intuitive command-line program, called 'mmps', mostly under Linux. It's written in C++, and I can thus easily modify the code, if necessary. It compiles well also under the CYGWIN layer that many of us use together with WINDOWS.

It does these projections:

latlong | equalarea | sinusoidal | sinusoidal2 | mollweide | mercator | cylindrical | azimuthal |
rectilinear |orthographic | stereographic | gnomonic | perspective| bonne | hammer

It's essentially a pixel-to-pixel transformation without fancy resampling and anti-alias features. But that's precisely what I need.

Fridger

Thank you Fridger!
Ok, I must add that I am working on a mac and though I had some contact with the command line in osx terminal I rather prefer to use apps with a GUI.
What I am trying to get is not a vector file but a pixel template of sufficient resolution to import it into Illustrator and then drawing my own cartographic generalizations. If you already took a look on NASA's G.Projector you will find almost every projection there and the app is real fun to use. But as I said before there's one weak point for me, you cannot save the results to higher resolution and according to the developer Robert B. Schmunk it won't be possible for a while.

I tried to google for mmps but it's hard to find it at first glance.

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:Thank you Fridger!
Ok, I must add that I am working on a mac and though I had some contact with the command line in osx terminal I rather prefer to use apps with a GUI.
What I am trying to get is not a vector file but a pixel template of sufficient resolution to import it into Illustrator and then drawing my own cartographic generalizations. If you already took a look on NASA's G.Projector you will find almost every projection there and the app is real fun to use. But as I said before there's one weak point for me, you cannot save the results to higher resolution and according to the developer Robert B. Schmunk it won't be possible for a while.

I tried to google for mmps but it's hard to find it at first glance.

Cheers, tiburcio

Matthew Arcus' mmps page comes right on in Google, if you ask for "mmps projection".
Here is the URL:
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~arcus/mmps/

It contains plenty of examples and explanations.

Well since MACs have a complete UNIX on board, the compilation of mmps for your machine is trivial. For Windows it's not quite as easy.

But you seem rather be looking more for "end user" software. Here I can't help you much. I always prefer to be able to look into the code to really see what was assumed in terms of math etc.

Good luck,
Fridger

Thanks Fridger!
I think I should try it.

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:Thank you Fridger!
Ok, I must add that I am working on a mac and though I had some contact with the command line in osx terminal I rather prefer to use apps with a GUI.
What I am trying to get is not a vector file but a pixel template of sufficient resolution to import it into Illustrator and then drawing my own cartographic generalizations. If you already took a look on NASA's G.Projector you will find almost every projection there and the app is real fun to use. But as I said before there's one weak point for me, you cannot save the results to higher resolution and according to the developer Robert B. Schmunk it won't be possible for a while.

I tried to google for mmps but it's hard to find it at first glance.

Cheers, tiburcio

Since you are running a MAC, you can also give ISIS3 a try. It may be a bit of overkill if you are only doing projections though. ISIS3 can can project the following.

equirectangular
lambertconformal
mercator
obliquecylindrical
orthographic
pointperspective
polarstereographic
simplecylindrical
sinusoidal
transversemercator

Sinusoidal projections are similar to the examples you posted.

Youll need rsync installed. Here is the link with instructions.
http://isis.astrogeology.usgs.gov/docum ... tallGuide/
A bit of caution if you decide to try this. The data folder is quite large. For just map projections, you probably only need the base folder. This is still a few GB's. Most of this is topographic maps of Mars. There are 3 of them. They are used as shape files when projecting Mars images. To only get the base folder, look at this section of the Installation instructions.

To download specific Isis3 mission data files use the following commands. Please note: Reguardless of the mission you must have the base data. Some valid missions are: cassini, clementine1, galileo, lo, messenger, mgs, mro, odyssey, viking1, viking2.

rsync -azv --delete isisdist.wr.usgs.gov::isis3data/data/base data/

cartrite

Thank you cartrite!
I think I already met USGS when I was downloading Snyder's "Map Projections - A Working Manual" ?
I'll take a look on this even if Winkel-Tripel is not covered there.
I wonder how the guy from wikipedia managed to create those impressive projections?

Cheers, tibo

Ok, I followed the steps on ImageMagicks site but the first big problem was that I need at least XCode Tools version 3.1 and version 3.0 will not update automatically. When trying to get the 3.1.2 update with versiontracker I need an ADC Membership (which is charged with a fee I suppose)... This happens when trying to install with "sudo port install ImageMagick" so it's MacPorts which won't work I suppose. But trying the other possibility: downloading the tar.gz file and then let it run with the terminal, well I still don't feel comfortable anyway with the command line and so I didn't succeed to get it working... Well I should ask in the ImageMagick's mailing list maybe?

Sorry for that loud thinking

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:... I need an ADC Membership (which is charged with a fee I suppose)...

There is no fee for registering @ ADC.

Hey ElChristou, Thanks! I didn't know. It's just curious for me that although I have a new Leopard Installation here, the installed XCode Tools won't update automatically...

Maybe you can tell me something about this installation step: "Set the MAGICK_HOME environment variable to the path where you extracted the ImageMagick files. For example: ...and then I go and set: [ export MAGICK_HOME="/Users/UZ/Desktop/ImageMagick-6.5.0" ] ...but nothing happens. And when I try to drag a "function" from the bin folder and execute it on an image, this is what I get in the terminal:
/Users/UZ/Desktop/ImageMagick-6.5.0/bin/display /Users/UZ/Desktop/German_Colonel.jpg
dyld: Library not loaded: /ImageMagick-6.5.0/lib/libMagickCore.2.dylib
Referenced from: /Users/UZ/Desktop/ImageMagick-6.5.0/bin/display
Reason: image not found
Trace/BPT trap

I read somewhere that not every SHELL can interpret "export" (my terminal is running the bash shell). I try to catch some "command-line-talking" but man it's hard for a beginner:)

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:...Maybe you can tell me something about this installation step...

My friend, unfortunately I'm not your man! I do use Xcode to build Celestia but the arcanes of the unix systems ar still really unclear to me... I guess you should register @ ADC, present you as a novice and ask for some help...

Hi,

finally I was able to install ImageMagick with MacPorts successfully. I took some lessons in ImageMagick's "The Anatomy of the Command Line" but of course my skills are far away from what I can do pointing with a mouse e.g. in Photoshop ...

I have a question about the Output image size. I use a 5400x2700 inputfile and after saving the output with this command: ./project equalarea -p 45 -adjust -f ./images/5400x2700.ppm -out ./images/test.ppm and converting the ppm file to e.g. a png I'll get a file with these dimensions: width=800px height=509px

Because that's to small I define the output size to [-w 5400] and [-h 3430] (the vertical pixel size might be not correct because I counted it in a hurry by calculating the 800/509 proportions). But is there an easier and exacter possibility to let the command calculate automatically the adequate height in this case? ...instead of calculating it manually what I did. I hope you understand what I mean

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio,

so now you seem to get involved with ImageMagick? Why that? I can only warn you that due to their very frequent release policiy, one often encounters bugs in IM! While the program is OK for relatively small files, the handling of textures/images of larger sizes >16000 x 8000 pixels, say, is getting painfully slow. Sometimes the commandline application just hangs and never returns...

While GIMP, Photoshop and various other tools (like notably my F-TexTools, nmtools) are efficiently programmed for handling large files, ImageMagick is NOT.

Fridger

Ok Fridger I'll take a look on the F-Fex Tools though I don't have any problems with higher resolution (e.g. 21600x10800 NASA Blue Marble) here on ImageMagick...

Cheers, tiburcio

Hi,

I started to install ISIS 3 with this command: [rsync -azv --delete isisdist.wr.usgs.gov::isis3_intel_darwin/isis .] The next step will be to install the necessary ISIS 3 data files. In order to install the F-Fex Tools for my purposes, do I have to follow the Texture Workshop on CelestialMatters here: http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=194# or are the F-Fex Tools not necessary for my project? Excuse me my very general question but I am at the very beginning and ISIS 3 itself seems a huge challenge for me.

Cheers, tiburcio

tiburcio wrote:Hi,

I started to install ISIS 3 with this command: [rsync -azv --delete isisdist.wr.usgs.gov::isis3_intel_darwin/isis .] The next step will be to install the necessary ISIS 3 data files. In order to install the F-Fex Tools for my purposes, do I have to follow the Texture Workshop on CelestialMatters here: http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=194# or are the F-Fex Tools not necessary for my project? Excuse me my very general question but I am at the very beginning and ISIS 3 itself seems a huge challenge for me.

Cheers, tiburcio

The F-Tex tools are made for creating high res optimized virtual textures from raw datasets; if you just want to re-project maps I guess they will be useless to you... (ISIS seems to be what you need)

cartrite wrote:A bit of caution if you decide to try this. The data folder is quite large. For just map projections, you probably only need the base folder. This is still a few GB's. Most of this is topographic maps of Mars. There are 3 of them. They are used as shape files when projecting Mars images. To only get the base folder, look at this section of the Installation instructions.

To download specific Isis3 mission data files use the following commands. Please note: Reguardless of the mission you must have the base data. Some valid missions are: cassini, clementine1, galileo, lo, messenger, mgs, mro, odyssey, viking1, viking2.

rsync -azv --delete isisdist.wr.usgs.gov::isis3data/data/base data/

cartrite

Remember to try this. If you download the whole data folder, you'll end up downloading 50+ GB. My ISIS3 data folder is 53.3 GB. As far as F-Tex Tools, that's up to you. You don't need F-Tex Tools to run ISIS. You may want to use F-Tex Tools to create a Virtual Texture from maps you create with ISIS though. Keep in mind, to use these projections in Celestia, they probably need to be simplecylindrical/equirectangular. I think F-Tex Tools also assumes that you have data that is projected in simplecylindrical/equirectangular.
cartrite

ElChristou wrote:

tiburcio wrote:Hi,

I started to install ISIS 3 with this command: [rsync -azv --delete isisdist.wr.usgs.gov::isis3_intel_darwin/isis .] The next step will be to install the necessary ISIS 3 data files. In order to install the F-Fex Tools for my purposes, do I have to follow the Texture Workshop on CelestialMatters here: http://forum.celestialmatters.org/viewtopic.php?t=194# or are the F-Fex Tools not necessary for my project? Excuse me my very general question but I am at the very beginning and ISIS 3 itself seems a huge challenge for me.

Cheers, tiburcio

The F-Tex tools are made for creating high res optimized virtual textures from raw datasets; if you just want to re-project maps I guess they will be useless to you... (ISIS seems to be what you need)

Sorry if I correct: The F-TexTools also work with PNG input! Only the nmtools for normalmaps need 16bit raw input for obvious reasons of smoothness. Also the F-TexTools produce directly dds format output in highest quality for any operating system...

Notably for large textures, the F-TexTools can be used to reduce the textures VERY quickly to power-of-two size as often is required for Celestia. This is done with a minimum of losses.

Fridger

Thank you guys!
I am on the way to learn ISIS now. Though I still don't understand what Setting Up The Environment Variable in UNIX means after following the 'Installing Isis' steps I am able to run qview and take a look on the first examples now, so I think the installation might have been successful Converting a RAW file to a .cub file worked out too and my next steps in the Isis Workshop will deal with the Map Projection section and the Intermediate part. I hope with some patience the puzzle will take shape...

Of course some questions will follow

Cheers, tiburcio

Hi,

I suppose there isn't any "political borders" file that would match NASA's blue marble images, at least I haven't found any. Would it be possible to apply Cham's political borders to a blue marble image?

Cheers, tiburcio