Celestia Forums

Fridger,

Thats a very good point. If we new more about ancient Mars, we might have a better understandiing of this. But we don't have any time machines laying around, unless you know something I don't, lol. So we all have to make educated guess and see what comes of it.
I for one would love to be able to see the early solar system and see how things changed and evolved in it over time.

Don. Edwards

Don. Edwards wrote:Fridger,

Thats a very good point. If we new more about ancient Mars, we might have a better understandiing of this. But we don't have any time machines laying around, unless you know something I don't, lol. So we all have to make educated guess and see what comes of it.
I for one would love to be able to see the early solar system and see how things changed and evolved in it over time.


Don. Edwards

Don,

right you are...yet, if I was interested myself in modelling the weather of other planets than Earth, I really would write some mail to one of the many weather reseach groups in your country, asking for the simulation code or a URL therof. Usually research level code is freely available. That's one of the basic rules of the game in science...

Then, before spending so much time in making your great textures, I would indeed first run that code for the planet of my choice, trying out various options and consequently finding out with this code what the consequences would be...

Look e.g. at the example given by Chaos here http://oklo.org/?p=207


Only after that step, I'd make a decision about the weather on Mars a long while ago.

Bye Fridger

Fridger,
Well if I did that, I would have to suspend the texture indefinitely. Not something I am willing to do at this point. And I would have allot of people to answer too. ?

Don,

As Fridger suggests...

The NOAA website has many links to research related sites, a number of which provide modelling software packages and public data sets (which you might modify to meet your needs?). Perhaps something like the Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory's FMS package (flexible modeling system)?

Don. Edwards wrote:Guys, One other thing, this is a work of fictional. Science Fiction if all be told. If my making this texture is going to open such a kettle of worms than maybe I should cancel the whole thing now. This is for funs sake, and possibly educational. Its accuracy I will admit is questionable. Don. Edwards

Don, I absolutely agree with you.
In the Universe there is not only science, but even (thanks God!) beauty, order, poetry, so please don't stop making the wonderful things you are able to do.
It's a matter of taste or philosophy, and who doesn't agree with the scientific accuracy of your terraformed Mars (Sci-Fi, indeed!), is not obliged to use it.
None ever asked other Celestia artists (because you are an artist) to change the behaviour of their fantasy worlds, but correctly a lot of words are used to make the Celestia scientific side "scientifically" scientific.
I know that there are a lot of people who enjoy your work so, please, go on this way for all of us.
Thanks a lot!

Andrea

Please Don,

don't stop working on your texture ! I'm still waiting for it ! I'm not looking for ultra realism and scientific accuracy in this case since it's fictional anyway. Just finish it and publish it !

As Richard Feynman once said, "What do you care what other people
think?"

Do it for you. I think it's cool and can't wait to see it on my computer...

I'm sorry Don, my post wasn't meant to pick or push. I guess I jumped in at the wrong time? I thought only to offer a resource I'd been aware of, thinking you'd be interested in it for perhaps a future project. My apologies.

LordFerret,

No problem at all. I don't mind doing research, but I just don't want to have to mess with something like punching in a lot of variables and waiting days to weeks for answers and all the while my computer is basically offline for my use..

Now I have found some interesting info around the web, of course I can't be too sure how accurate it is. There seems to be a major consensus that if Mars atmosphere was twice to three times as thick as it is now, it would also stand allot taller than Earth?€™s atmosphere, due in part to the lower gravity. I haven't found as of yet any convincing info as to whether there would be any ice at these extreme heights. So I am going to play it safe and leave the great volcanoes tops ice free as I had planned all along. As far as the atmosphere is concerned it is looking like there would be more than a single hadley cell all over the planet. They would be smaller and much more intense than what we have here on the Earth though. I have just got this from a few sites. It?€™s all very much guess work at this point though.
Another thing that I need to take into consideration is size and scale. A cloudmap that is based on the Earth simply is not going to be accurate for Mars. Clouds are pretty much locked into certain physical sizes due to their makeup so to speak. Here is an example. So let?€™s say a weather front on Earth is 200 miles wide by 1000 miles long. I need to keep the same scale on a Terraformed Mars. On the Earth this storm would be considered fairly small, but on Mars it would look twice as large as it does on Earth, because Mars is half Earth?€™s size. So I am going to create a new cloudmap for Terraformed Mars based on this information. It will be interesting to see how things look with it.

Ok I think that?€™s enough for now, I should have a few new sample shots of the new version of the texture up in a day or so. So hang in there everyone, things are getting interesting.

Don. Edwards

Your work is exquisite Don, very beautiful !

Just a quick update for everyone interested. The work on the main Terraformed Mars is completed. I have some work to do on the normalmap and the new night-side texture and cloud texture. But things are finally moving forward and I should be able to have it ready soon. Finally I see the light at the end of the tunnel on this very long ongoing project. I will to posting some new screen shots soon of the texture at its native 16k level, so stay tunned.

Don. Edwards

::Massive amounts of applause:: Can't wait Don!

Don:

Wonderful work. The Terraforming of Mars Educational Activity will be immediately updated to include these beautiful textures, and the text revised to explain some of their great new geographical features (with the proper caveats about them being an estimate of what a terraformed mars MIGHT look like).

Thank you greatly.

Frank

Another update.

As I stated in the earlier post the main Terraformed Mars texture is finished.
I have created an 8k texture and converted it to DDS for the explicit purpose of taking a few screenshots and testing the other textures that go along with it.

So you all may be asking what exactly is finished. Work on the main texture has closed, all adjustments and color calibrating has been done, at least to my liking.

Things I still have to finish:

The specmap has to be reworked to allow for the changes to rivers and other water features. This should take next to no time so it is last on the list.

Build the 16k Normalmap, I have a working 8k at the present time, so only the 16k needs finishing. Basically I just have to cut it into tiles, convert them to normalmaps, and reassemble them and then save the file. I won't be in the new format so it will not be very accurate but it will do its job.

I have started the new nightside lights texture. It is a total departure from my earlier one that was made for the Terraformed Mars Education project for Frank.

The real big project is the new cloudmap texture. After doing allot of digging around I came away with enough information I think to make an accurate cloudmap. I know some of you are wondering why I just don't do the easy thing and use a modified Earth cloudmap as I have done in the past. The main reason is scale. Water vapor clouds are the same size on Earth as they would be on a Terraformed Mars. This means using a standard Earth cloudmap is very inaccurate. The clouds simply wouldn't look right. For example, if you have a storm cloud the size of Texas on Earth it?€™s going to be the same size on Mars, but because Mars is smaller the same sized storm is going to look like its covering allot more surface area than it does on Earth. So I have been scaling all the clouds for the new cloudmap to keep things as accurate as possible. The results so far are very impressive and the earliest version of the cloudmap is looking quite good, but it still has allot of work to do.

I will show by example with three screencaps of the 8k TMars texture in its final form with the new cloudmap. The coloring you see in the texture is the final product. Also please be advised that any glitches or other graphic garbage in the clouds in these shots will be fixed in the final version.
So here are the pictures. Click them for a full sized image.










The cloudmap above was built over a four hour period Sunday night. I would say there is at least another 8 to 10 hours of work to do on it. Once I am satisfied with the cloudmap I will finish up on the other textures and put this project to bed.

I am still not sure what I will do next. Continue on and finish the Ancient Mars texture, or restart and finish one of my other projects. I may take a break from Mars for a while. I also have to take time to do screen captures of all my texture and put a portfolio of all my work together. So I will probably take a break from texture work for a short time. I do have to finish a promised texture to Frank for his education activities and then I can move on.

As always comments and input are always welcome.

Check back soon for more info and pictures.

Don. Edwards

That is a beautiful piece of work.

What cloud map did you use?

Wow!

That is Fantastic. Its obvious you spent a good deal of time on this project. I can't wait to see the finished results.

Ozark

Fantastic! I built one that looked alot like this roughly a year ago